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I`m loving the 'justification' above. tee hee
hilldodger - Member
Let's face up, it's £3000 wriswatches, vintage razors & pro level coffee machines Vs waterpoof casios, yellow bics and two spoons of gold blend.....
Don't ever make the mistake that people who can afford to buy all those things are willing to spend their money on those things. Many are just as tight if not tighter than those that couldn't afford them...
Onto the main point, I get pretty hacked off at the elephant in the room of cheap DX lights/whatever that are ignored in mag group tests for no reason that I can see other than the mags don't want to offend the people selling the more expensive ones. I expect better of ST mag TBH but I'm starting to think that my faith is misplaced here. Even if they reviewed a £50ish DX light that is more than up to the job of 'proper' mtbing and said that it was fine but that they'd heard of them failing, etc so maybe you want to balance the price against possible reliability or lack thereof, I could go with that. To just ignore them is failing the readership IMO.
To just ignore them is failing the readership IMO.
+1
And thinking about it further...
I understand that you can have a great night ride with cheaper lights but that isn't really what a gear review is for - that would be more of column or a story really.
Surely that's exactly what a gear review is for. Reader is interested in lights for night riding, reads mag review of lights to hopefully make an informed decision on which ones suit them best. To do that properly the review has to reflect what's out there - not everything - that's clearly would be impossible - but certainly it should reflect the broad range of options and cheap DX, etc are definitely one of those options.
Maybe they ordered a cheap Chinese light but it was kept in the container at the harbour for 6 months so missed the test?
🙂 Maybe and in that case, they could have said exactly that. Or borrowed one and made that comment as the downside. At least that's then giving a clear picture of what's out there.
Maybe the magazines are reflecting trends in the mountain biking population and their aspirations. I think things have moved from a " get out and ride " mentality and young [ ish ] riders customising stuff on the [ relative ] cheap .now there seems to be more status in having a carbon fibre mega expensive bike that what you do with it . to quiote a previous article in singletrack- mountain biking has become the new golf ,largely middle aged user population with money to spend and people to impress.
largely middle aged user population
Is that actually true? While I'm definitely creeping towards that bracket (or maybe already there), from the othe people I see out riding I don't reckon that's the majority by any means - mid teens to late 20s/maybe early 30s seems to be the majority to me.
most of the people I tend to see are thirties plus and a lot in their forties . I'm late fifties myself.
I'm only seven. Really I should be having my spag hoops and be tucked up in bed shortly.....
DrP
I like to think that the mag and Forum are not exclusive to the middle-classes.
There will always be folk with more money than me or you, so what? If they want to spend £500 on some naff coffee machine then as long as they report back on here and we can point and laugh, fair play to 'em.
If nothing else, this recession is forcing folk to reassess their priorities and perhaps learning some humility in the process.
If any of the naysayers want to check the front page and go to the review of bar lights they'll see Smudge thanking us for the "excellent" review of his XML light.
If you bought the mag you'd know it was one of three I recommended.
I'm with clubber on this. 🙂
I've got Hong Kong torches, batteries and chargers from DX but I'm reluctant to recommend them to friends for fear of them breaking or going bang. They're not CE tested and there's no real guarantee if bought direct from HK although there are UK sellers who offer their own guarantee. The HK lights are great and extremely cheap but with the risks involved I wouldn't expect a publication to recommend them to the general public who may or may not be morons and leave everything plugged in while they go on holiday!
Wow...way to lose a lot of credibility and alienate your potential market singletrackmatt! I should have said "too many journos write like tools", I don't actually know any.
No way is it damned if you do and damned if you don't, all you need is a DX torch and light in tIe test...it's called "impartiality" 😛
Maybe the magazines are reflecting trends in the mountain biking population and their aspirations. I think things have moved from a " get out and ride " mentality and young [ ish ] riders customising stuff on the [ relative ] cheap .now there seems to be more status in having a carbon fibre mega expensive bike that what you do with it . to quiote a previous article in singletrack- mountain biking has become the new golf ,largely middle aged user population with money to spend and people to impress.
So Singletrack is now a follower of the pack, rather than a leader?
a magazine - impartial? who`d have heard of such a thing!
Doesn't every magazine publication has parts that you will like and some you dont, bit of a harsh criticism to say STW Magazine & Forum is for elitest rich people only, just skip the bits you don't agree with or like, its not meant to be personal.
I wouldn't expect a publication to recommend them to the general public who may or may not be morons and leave everything plugged in while they go on holiday!
I have a cordless drill that has a battery that will overheat if left plugged in for too long. Made by Bosch. Hardly a dodgy brand. FWIW, my DX light seemed ok when I left it to charge for a week. Light went from red to green once it was fully charged.
Dave - Moderator
If any of the naysayers want to check the front page and go to the review of bar lights they'll see Smudge thanking us for the "excellent" review of his XML light.If you bought the mag you'd know it was one of three I recommended.
Which is exactly the one I bought after seeing the review, very pleased with it & Smudge's quick service too.
Which sort of flies in the face of the
[i]"There are, of course, plenty of sub-£100 lights out there but we wanted to restrict this group test to lights that were up to the job of proper off-road night riding. Trail illumination costs money."[/i]
comment?
I've bought plenty of lights from DX for myself & friends. I guess we're all lucky not to have perished in an inferno. Phew.
Is that actually true? While I'm definitely creeping towards that bracket (or maybe already there), from the othe people I see out riding I don't reckon that's the majority by any means - mid teens to late 20s/maybe early 30s seems to be the majority to me.
The people you see out riding probably aren't the same people splurging a wad on a new set of £700 wheels.
It's that eternal problem of not having enough money to buy a decent bike, then by the time you have that sort of disposable cash you've got no time.
I like to read about bikes and kit i will never be able to afford. My main bike cost far far more than my car, but the bike i use the most is worth maybe 250 quid and i use it to commute. Not sure what my point is really. Carry on.
singletrackmatt - bearded fellowand by the nature of it being a gear test/round up were likely to be showing new brighter better stuff
Except, your test actually showed some duller worse stuff. We're way past the point where cheap lights were "good enough", with the MJ-872s and the like they're beating plenty of expensive lights on all fronts.
Well the statement that the mag is becoming more middle aged because it features high end stuff isn't necessarily true. I am an old bloke but unfortunately a poor old bloke so although I have been riding MTBs since 1985 most of my stuff is special offer or some kind of discount.
I too boggle at some of the over priced stuff shown in the mag but that's what mags do. Top Gear mag has no articles on Vauxhall Novas.
As long as Singletrack keeps publishing plenty of articles about what you actually do with whatever bike they have got I will continue buying the mag. Having said that, I will be taking a very close look at the new format to decide whether I want to continue to afford it.
Always remember the rule of thumb for this type of thing. The money spent on 'kit' tends to be inversely proportional to the amount of use it getsCheap functional kit = Ride it like you stole it til it falls apart. Buy another one.
ludicrously expensive bling = used twice a year, mainly in the car park at Llandegla
Sometimes maybe, but I paid a fair bit for my Ay-Ups and they get used for both commuting and night riding; I reckon maybe around 150 times a year minimum. And I don't regret a penny of what was paid.
So if magazines in general only test stuff that is sent to them for free, how come every supplier doesnt send them stuff to test, costs them postage only and gets free advertising and some sales if it gets a good writeup.
More like heres some free stuff to test, and by the way book us a large advert for the next few issues,oh and when youve tested it, please feel free to keep the produict as we cant possibly resell it.
What about all the entry level stuff, that newbies buy,stuff that works and does what it says on the box, not some overpriced stuff ,that few can afford to use or buy.
Overall I'd say the response from at the ST staffers to this thread would suggest a worrying trend for being out of touch with their client-base.
Listen to your readers - you should be reporting what we want, not what you think we want...
They won't listen to you Bullie, easier to class you as a buffoon.
Maybe some people think that STW or similar is more representative of riders in general than it actually is. Is it for the elitist and rich? Nah, but they may make up a slightly greater % of riders who are bike-geeky or product-orientated enough to dwell on forums.
think things have moved from a " get out and ride " mentality and young [ ish ] riders customising stuff on the [ relative ] cheap .now there seems to be more status in having a carbon fibre mega expensive bike that what you do with it . to quiote a previous article in singletrack- mountain biking has become the new golf ,largely middle aged user population with money to spend and people to impress.
(just using your quote as a lead rather than a post-against btw) I'd say that's perception rather than reality, from a media-skewed view. Get out and ride is The Ride, Privateer etc but bigger circulation and lower cost must be driven by ads and product focus.
It's 'the new golf' in the way that more relatively wealthy middle-age blokes are getting into cycling in general (road is also said to be a new golf) and hence a focus of the media is attracting their spend / attention as a cost-effective easy win, but as a way of spending your time and £ it doesn't seem to appeal to that group any more than any other. Less so, perhaps?
I see a huge growth in the area of cycling I work in - making sub-£1000 bikes for ride-to-workers and first/second time buyers, all practical or leisure type bikes. That's great.. more people on bikes is good. Some of them will be future buyers of 5" travel carbon FS bikes with remote lockouts and dropper posts, but most won't be. It's all a bit too geeky for the majority of people who seem more into the 'get on and ride' aspect )
I would say the bias of the mag is a bit too high end for my tastes. I suggest a website poll on the subject!
So, to throw it out there...
I am not familiar with/ used the cheaper brands people are mentioning here - but before i spend loads on a new light, i would definitely like to know what they are like. Going from the stuff above, people seem to like theirs. Bit of a no-brainer to look into it.
More difficult to answer; Exposure and Hope (both mentioned above) both support riders, events etc - surely, thats a good thing. These firms seem to be being painted as ripoff merchants in league with publishers on here, so how does that stack up? Honest question (as i don't have a clue); do the cheaper manufacturers support riders and events in the UK? Shouldn't we value that as (mostly) UK riders? By extension, maybe a little more coverage of those brands giving more to the sport as a whole is no bad thing. IMO, of course..
I think the mag needs to relate better to the readers also, I have noticed over the last few months that it all feels a bit clique, I scratch your back you scratch mine. Contributors all mates together. Now i'm no where near capable of writing an article or review so maybe i'm talking out of turn and if so sorry. Maybe some reviews can be done by capable STW members for a change it may give a feeling of inclusion or real life testing. STW used to do a sticker can't remember how it went fully but something on the lines of the worlds biggest clique, now tongue in cheek thats fine but when the readership feels they are on the outside it's not good. Sorry for waffling im shit at writing what I think. Lastly I may be able to afford some of the reviewed products if I had my 10% discount card 😉
I really would not want to read a magazine that I was featured in. Given that no one commented on my ride photos today, I feel that this observation is bourn out with evidence 🙂
Don't feature then 😉
Don't know if the point has already been made up there, but when I buy a mag I like to see high-end, unaffordable (to me) kit reviewed and tastefully photographed. Surely no-one would buy a mag full of reviews of bargain basement tat (that's what forums are for 😆 - reviews direct from the (wo)man on the [s]street[/s] trail).
I love the STW forum but tend to buy WMB as I like the gear reviews and they tend to be aimed at a cross section of riders ability and budget. Ok they don't do the same number of articles as STW but when they do they tend to be more UK based and less biking down some random European mountain that a majority of us wouldn't have the budget to afford. I'd really like to see some more low to mid end budget reviews such as bikes around £500-1000 mark and clothes under a £100 that are not Gore or similar budget. I joined as an online subscriber so I can perv at the mags now and then but for pick up n read over and over when killing some time or sitting on the loo 😳 its WMB everytime. Don't get me wrong I do aspire to owning a £2k full susser but I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that's out of most peoples budget.
I appreciate that STW is not trying to be anything like WMB etc and caters for different riders generally and I respect that hence not buying the actual mag (more here n there if I like a particular article). Not saying it needs a wholesale change but a nod to the more budget conscious here and there would be nice 🙂
Listen to your readers - you should be reporting what we want, not what you think we want...
Therein lies the rub. I'm a reader. I'm not the slightest bit bothered about reviews since the Internet is full of them. They're everywhere and everyone has an opinion to be read on STW, blogs, Bike Radar etc. Not everyone is talented at writing though, so what [b]I[/b] want from STW is high quality articles about cycling and cyclists. Stuff your reviews, the next big thing will be here in a minute...
Agree with above I just flick past all the reviews looking for the cycling articles.
I have rarely seen a review of something I was actually looking to buy.
As said above the internet is my source for reviews , i can't afford the lights in the stw review but i won't hold it against them 🙂 that doesn't mean i don't enjoy reading them if you see what i mean?
Ill read on here and the net for cheaper alternatives and search for reviews of any given product for a price im willing to pay
I'm not bothered about magazine reviews either, the response on this thread is pretty poor though especially from Matt. Half the responnses I see from STW to any kind of criticism seem to be quite arsey and overly defensive. Insulting your customers is generally not seen as very professional for some reason. Ho hum.
And it's not really 'damned if you do damned if you don't' its just damned for pretending cheap lights aren't up to the job when they clearly are.
"we wanted to restrict this group test to lights that were up to the job of proper off-road night riding. Trail illumination costs money.
For me the problem with the above statement is it suggests you have to spend a lot of money for decent trail illumination, which as we and stw know you don't. Now if the statement had said something like 'this is a review of £500 plus lights...' I think that would be better, also supplier support of UK riding could be mentioned.
Anyway, I remember the early days when the mag did have a different take on things, you might say a bit leftfield, which was refreshing; but now it doesn't seem much different to the other mags.
The Dx stuff gets reviewed . Its reviewed on the forums by riders who dont type using multi sylable prose and complex mulit layered syntax.
Recomending those who send freebies , and pay for advertising in the mag, is kinda how it works in the comercial world.
If anyone cared about the reviews , then how come there are so many threads that start with 'Recomend me a......'?
talking about light reviews. Matt and STW had one of my lights now for nearly two years and said they would review it
but never got a word said .
Ever taken out an advert in the mag trout?