[Closed] Steel Hardtails?

So far for me...BFe Very good, Dialled PA not so. Neither could/can touch my Pace 303.
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Cant go wrong with a Dialled Bikes Prince Albert.

I've done it in the past when I broke my full susser and couldn't afford a replacement. I found it fine which is hardly surprising since it's just a hardtail and it's not like you [i]need[/i] full sus for 99.9% of trails that people actually ride (as opposed to 50ft drops that you see in the mags...).

Forget the thing about steel - that's a secondard thing. Choose a good frame and let whether it's steel or alumninium be only a consideration - the ride is not automatically different just because of the frame material - that's down to specific frame design so some alumninium frames will ride more like stereotypical steel than many steel frames. And visa versa. Particularly when you're talking about long travel steel frames.

I'm going from an Epic to a Blizzard.

I've tried Ali hardtails before that and a few steel before those. From what I remember steel was more forgiving than Ali with a much lower weight difference than you would expect.

For me I wasn't a lot faster on the Epic than I was on my old Ali hardtail, in fact I think it's made my riding a bit sloppier relying on the shock to take care of it. The hope is that a steel hardtail will not be as jaring and kick me off like Ali does when you get it wrong.

Either that or i've thought to much about it and i'll still be rubbish! 😉

This was the pic that made my mind up on a Blizzard, i'll post one of mine when it arrives.

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I've got an 09 SC Heckler and an 06 Cove Handjob..

I wouldn't say I've gone back to riding a hardtail, infact, It never went away..

The Heckler is full XTR Fox 36s, SPDS, and usd as an "all dayer",
The Handjob on the other hand has full XTR, with a double and bash, Flat pedals, 50mm Thomson stem, and 130mm forks- designed for [s]minicing[/s]thashing around trail centres..

So happily ride both,just have the luxury of being able to chose what to ride, depending on where I'm going..

Had a Heckler with all the below bits on, found that I was riding through stuff too much, I have to use my brain on this one, tremendous fun, although I'm considering swapping it out for a Bfe, so may sell the frame, although I change my mind every five minutes! Wouldnt go back to FS, that is until my back packs in.

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Hmmm, thanks folks. That's certainly given me something to think about. I suppose having had HTs as my first 2 bikes (in '91 and '98 respectively) I wanted to get away from the XC racer type geometry. At the same time I don't think I'd opt for anything too burly.

shellac, you struck upon a point there that does concern me though. My back. Having strained a muscle in my lower back 4 weeks ago I'm gently getting myself 'back' up to speed. Would a HT be generally more stressful to the lower back?

In a word, yes. A full susser is always going to reduce the amount of work and jarring on your back.

Except when you're carrying it uphill. 😉

Can't go wrong with a BFe - here's mine a couple of months ago just after it got built up.

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Shellac, I'm sure you don't need me to tell you this, but that Alpine's stunning 🙂

Have to disagree there Clubber. My old FS was murder on my back, partly because of the riding position (it was quite long and stretched), partly because I didn't have the riding technique (staying relaxed over the bashy stuff) or the core muscle strength to use it properly. I now have two notoriously stiff hardtails and neither gives me any trouble.

I've had an inbred for several years now and still enjoy riding it despite discovering the recent joys of coiler ownership (it's now a test of bottle - how quick will I let it charge down rough sections!).

I don't ache as much as I used to when I just rode HT after some rides and it's a nice safety margin. The only thing I'd add is if you're having a bad day of a HT it can be a pants ride. A bad day on a FS just becomes an average ride.

mr_a - that's a positional problem not inherent to FS though isn't it? Two bikes, one FS, on a hardtail with the same position, the hardtail will be harder on your back.

Cove Handjob here too. No way will it replace full-sus, but it's good to have both and the HJ is definitely nicer to ride than any alu bike I've ridden in the past.

Would never part with my old 04' SWorks Enduro, but I'm keen on the S/H Soul I've just recently acquired. Have to agree with an earlier post, as good as the Soul is it has nowhere near the grin factor of the Pace 303 I had last year. Trouble is the 303 was just too harsh for my 4 decade old back, the Soul is like a FS in comparison.
An 853 HT with the angles of a 303 would be perfect.

Often thought of getting one of those setavento ti copies made of my 303.

BFe seemed to have a nice damping effect and real springy, but from the PA im now riding, it damps too much it seems. Real "dead" no feel ride. Playing with it to try get something before i give up and sell it.

verses,

That 'Alpine' is an Evil Sovereign! But no worries!!!! Cheers, I like it. 😀

I suppose that was my reasoning for my OP. I thought I'd read somewhere that steel was more compliant than alu. Is that right?

The back issue does concern me slightly but the strain was not caused by riding but by a lift and twist movement after a ride (putting the frame into the boot). A H&S no no.

I certainly wouldn't be getting rid of the Five but it would be nice to have an alternative to spice things up a bit. Maybe provide a different approach to my local Peak loops, look to improve technique and less maintenance come winter time.

Shellac, I'm sure you don't need me to tell you this, but that Alpine's stunning

That's not an alpine. Evil Sov.

mr_a - that's a positional problem not inherent to FS though isn't it? Two bikes, one FS, on a hardtail with the same position, the hardtail will be harder on your back.

True dat, but also the FS encourages a different riding style, sit and pedal rather than standing up and moving your weight around. I'm not denying that there are some FSs that work very well with this approach, but others (mine was a single pivot like a Superlight) will beat you up nearly as badly as an HT.

I probably overstated it! My back has always been pooped, steel is probably more compliant than ali but it's more subtle than most bang on about, it takes some vibration on tiny bumps imo, but I dont know what Im talking about! If yer back hurts stand up! My sadle probably doesnt help too much either!

Dont know if its the picture but the head angle on the Sovereign looks hella steep?

but also the FS encourages a different riding style, sit and pedal rather than standing up and moving your weight around

Only if you let it: I still stand up and move my weight around on my full-sus. Full-sus should be used to push your limits, not to make your rides easier.

I have a Kona Explosif that I use for local rides, but I still prefer my Banshee Rune full-sus any day.

[i]I suppose that was my reasoning for my OP. I thought I'd read somewhere that steel was more compliant than alu. Is that right?
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Not all steel frames are more compliant. The Handjob is, but I found a Charge Duster stiff like alu, but heavier and "deader" feeling. (Similar to Swiftacular's description of his PA).
Best try before you buy, I reckon.

Swiftacular,

Yep it always look steep, about 68 degrees with a 140mm fork, I can only think it's the tubes coming away at mad angles that makes it look so! Although it aint that slack....

I also found my Genesis Altitude, stiff and dull. That was steel 853 tubes too. As said above if you buy a hardtail dont just think because its steel it will be a magic carpet ride.

Genesis Altitude frame only is sold out btw.

Try and get a deal on the Ti?

I suffer from lower back pain, so have been ridding full suss for the last 5yrs.

Just built up a Handjob and after using it for short rides found it was not causing any back trouble. I have now started to use it for longer rides and still no back trouble, to the point where the full suss is no longer ridden.

It can be done, if you suffer from back trouble, you just need to get the right frame.

Pipedream Sirius

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that is an Alpine.....

the Sanderson in the background gives a very forgiving ride when it gets rough, more so than the Alpine. not so Hardcore though but has still stood up to proper 2 hour alpine descents behind the 'big-boys' on their fullys...

"I also found my Genesis Altitude, stiff and dull"

dont ride a PA or an alpitude then, and the bfe is even stiffer )
horses for courses etc

Cove Stiffee (ali) of Handjob (steel). Both are very very nice, if expensive.

[url= http://www.chromagbikes.com/frames_trl_2009.html ]Sommat a bit different.[/url] Well, rarer rather than different, then.

Ahem.

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I've got a Cotic Hemlock & a Cove Handjob, I got the Handjob as a winter
bike. But use it just as much as the Hemlock, I enjoy riding both bikes.
But if I was only allowed one bike it would have to be the Handjob

Whyte 19. I'm old and heavy, but it mkes me ride like Twinkerbelle...

That 'Alpine' is an Evil Sovereign! But no worries!!!!

D'oh...

😉

I love my [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/simonjohntaylor/sets/72157618828936686/ ]"new" Kona Unit[/url]:-)

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that brown / green kona is bloody lovely

As is that silver Alpine.... very nice.