Very genuine question this...
Over the last year I have seen more and more crap cycling on the roads.
A few months back Im queing at a T junction to turn left, and a roady pulls up along side on my right hand side. I pull out and turning left, to find the cyclist is now doing the same on my out side 😯
I have to brake and let him go. Futher up the road I in a que another driver has hooted him and they are both having words (obviously he has done some thing else..)
Today Im going down a road to another junction. Commuter is on kerb and I can see he is eyeing up jumping on to the road. I signal to turn left and start moving, he then decides to jump down off the kerb, and I have to brake.
You really do see more and more crap cyclist...
That is all. Just restoring some balance to the debate 🙂
Lot more people are doing it, ergo you will encounter a lot more crap ones. Whether it's proportionately higher among the new entrants is another matter.
Can't say I've noticed worse quality, though I have noticed quantity.
Must've been a tri-athlete 😆
Couple of incidents in a few months eh, must be getting terrible out there 😉
As a rule of thumb: I reckon that proportionally there are as many 'bad' cyclists as there are motorised road-users. You're seeing more I think because there are more cyclists venturing out than before.
I have no evidence for this other than general observation.
Should be titled: "Grammar of users on forums"
What you've encountered there are not 'bad cyclists', they're knobends who just happen to be on a bike, they're the same people that drive with a similar lack of attention, or walk around oblivious to other people, stepping in front of them and barging around. Put them in a car and they'd be 'bad motorists', or leave them on foot and they'd be 'bad pedestrians'
What you've seen is more knobends deciding to use a bike.
The problems on our road are not due to cyclists, or motorists, or pedestrians, but people, and not being considerate and aware of the other people around them.
It's not 'que' it's 'cue' ffs.
I did see another bike yesterday, just one in two hours. He was friendly 🙂
It's not 'que' it's 'cue' ffs.
er...
Meanwhile, 83% of drivers admit to speeding regularly.
http://www.ctc.org.uk/blog/roger-geffen/rac-says-%E2%80%9Cdrivers-need-help%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%93-and-they%E2%80%99re-right
[i]I reckon that proportionally there are as many 'bad' cyclists as there are motorised road-users. You're seeing more I think because there are more cyclists venturing out than before.[/i]
Who's doing the killing? That's where the problem is. Let's not get all Stockholm Syndrome here and pretend that mildly antisocial cycling is in any way a serious problem.
Last night with the high winds Bridgewater Place in Leeds was closed off. The traffic was chaos as a result and much busier than usual. At Crown Point crossroads I witnessed the most stupid cyclist I've seen in ages. With the lights changed to red he decides to take the pedestrian traffic island instead making those on foot move out of his way. Determined that nothing was going prevent him from making progress he carries straight on across the road to the next pedestrian island even though the crossing is on red. There was a good reason for it to be on red as a double decker bus was fast approaching him until the driver had to slam on whilst he gets the finger from the cyclist. The traffic lights have now changed and the cyclist tries to cross in front of 3 lanes of traffic making it halfway before he gets stuck blocking me at the front of the middle lane. I give him the disproving shake of my head and get the finger in return. The traffic lights change again and the queue of traffic that he was originally part of moves off again overtaking said cyclist as he pushes his way on foot through pedestrians who aren't yielding to him so he has to join the flow of traffic. This was no casual cyclist who didn't know any better but a regular commuter with the Hi-Viz and panniers on.
Before anyone says it wasn't Ton as I'd past him moments before as he waiting to cross over towards Waterloo Street looking very cold and pissed off.
Futher up the road I in a que another driver has hooted him and they are both having words (obviously he has done some thing else..)
obviously
It doesn't seem from what you've written that you witnessed the start of the altercation, so how was it obvious?
Reminds me a bit of those conversations that go
"Cyclists all run red lights"
"How do you know that?"
"I saw two of them doing it just last week"
NO group of road users is a paragon of virtue
we ought to try and get all users to obey the rules and drive more safely
We should focus on the ones who do the most killing whilst addressing all standards from all users
I walked to the shop earlier and watched the police safety van did a u turn on a roundabout from the wrong lane and without indicating. They cut up a driver who had to slam on. The driver beeped them and the copper got out to tell him off. They only stopped when they realised i was filming them.
That was poor driving
I almost thank folk for indicating these days.
IME cyclist on pavements are [s]chavs [/s] folk who own bikes not cyclists
IME cyclist on pavements are chavs folk who own bikes not cyclists
Agree that's why when you see them on paths you almost wait for them to do something stupid. Those that wear the right gear to make themselves noticed you tend to think are bit more intelligent but as last night showed there is always an exception to the rule.
[i]I Futher up the road I in a que[/i]
A what?
It's not 'que' it's 'cue' ffs.
Queue* how awkward for you.
I'm struggling with the issue in the first one - you're turning left, he's assessed he'll be making the manoeuvre quicker than you, so has placed himself to your right, and is overtaking you...? That he then had an altercation with a driver seems irrelevant.
Coming up your inside would be more dick like and dangerous.
A what?
😆
Thanks Junkyard and craigxxl, extremely constructive. Following too many near misses on a particularly busy stretch of road on my commute, I now ride on the Pavement at this point. I’m trying to get home from work nothing more and I want to arrive in one piece. This doesn't make me a chav.
Queue* how awkward for you.
You don't have whoosh parrots round here then?
I can see that would be awkward for youin one piece
"crap cyclist/s" or pedestrians on bikes?
Thanks Junkyard and craigxxl, extremely constructive. Following too many near misses on a particularly busy stretch of road on my commute, I now ride on the Pavement at this point. I’m trying to get home from work nothing more and I want to arrive in one piece. This doesn't make me a chav.
I assume you will be pushing your bike on the path until you reach a safer stretch of road to cycle on so as not to commit an offence or do you have special dispensation?
I assume you will be pushing your bike on the path until you reach a safer stretch of road to cycle on so as not to commit an offence or do you have special dispensation?
1.I like how you're more likely to get a "that's illegal you dangerous cirminal" repsonse for riding a bike on the pavement than breaking the law in a car. Anyone here break 20 or 30mph speed limits?
2. The guidance about considerate pavement cycling being tolerated has been reiterated recently. That sounds like what Vinte is doing.
3. What's the difference between a pavement and a pavement that's had a blue sign put up to make it shared use? The blue sign? But no changes to actually make the pavement more suited to cycling? Round here they're poorly (or just not) signed so you can be legally riding (according to the council's online map) on a pavement with no bike signs. When councils "create" bike infrastructure by saying "y'see that pavement there...I suppose you can ride on that if you want" then they legitimise pavement cycling all over the place. E.g. there's a narrow, crowded pavement near a station near me, traffic is rarely doing >20mph there. It's shared use. Then I get out into the countryside on my commute. There's a relatively wide, deserted (I don't think I've seen more than half a dozen people on it in the 2 years I've been going down there) pavement on an unlit NSL road. But riding on that would be [i]wrong[/i]. And to make things even worse, the NSL road is actually part of the NCN! No facilities, just a blue sign with a bike on it pointing you down a fast road towards a huge dual carriageway roundabout.
Probers drivers on bikes innit WTF
Bails, both cycling on paths and speeding are illegal. I don't tend to do either.
Signage stating that a path is shared use at least warns pedestrians so they are less likely to change direction without checking to see if a cyclist is about to clip them. Shared use paths also tend to wider regardless of if they are marked up or not.
Strangely, desipite all this awful inconsiderate cycling going on, still about 1 in 200 or so of us will die in a motor vehicle accident. In the USA it's more like 1 in 100. In Thailand it's 1 in 40
I see idiot drivers every single day on my 2 x 21 mile commute, mostly the irritating ones who think the rules of the road and common courtesy don't apply to them and drive like the roads are there for their convenience only.
Sounds just like some bike owners, doesn't it!
I assume you will be pushing your bike on the path until you reach a safer stretch of road to cycle on so as not to commit an offence or do you have special dispensation?
read the home office guidance, the Police could do with being reminded as well! riding on the pavement is fine and should only be dealt with if done in a way likely to endanger others.
[url= http://road.cc/content/news/108119-transport-minister-responsible-cyclists-can-ride-pavement ]http://road.cc/content/news/108119-transport-minister-responsible-cyclists-can-ride-pavement[/url]
The thing is it's a mindset that isn't going to improve by trying to make better drivers or better cyclist. Inconsiderate people are the same whether they are in a car, on a bike, or walking down the pavement 4 abreast. How do you make them less inconsiderate? it's hardwired for many people.
However a large amount of accident's aren't due to inconsiderate driving or cycling but a lack of awareness on both parts and drivers simply not being used to cyclist a subconsciously not noticing them at junctions etc. This situation will improve with education.
Inconsiderate people are the same whether they are in a car, on a bike, or walking down the pavement 4 abreast.
I really really don't accept that equivocation.
Only one of those groups kills people in large numbers through their inconsideration. It's DIFFERENT when the inconsideration involves making very heavy lumps of metal move inconsiderately amongst soft fleshy people.
"Inconsiderate people are the same whether they're taking too many biscuits from the tin, or piloting a JCB through a crowded school playground without paying attention". See?
My point wasn't that an inconsiderate person in charge of a car won't do more damage than one in charge of a bike rather that they are of the same mentality that is not going to change.
Nice extreme example to prove your point btw 😉
But that's the thing... I don't accept that they're of the same mentality. One of the activities is fundamentally higher risk than the other. It is a different decision to take a risk in a car than it is to take a risk on a bike. I think we as a group should point out to people that while a cyclist behaving impolitely is annoying, it's completely different in terms of external danger to instances where a driver does so. People need to get past the sense of offending politeness, and look at what people are ACTUALLY risking when they behave the way they do
No special dispensation, in this case I don't really care about the law. I just want to get home safely every day and I’ve made the decision that to do that I need to cycle on the pavement. I’d rather ride on the road at this point but what can you do. I should point out that I rarely encounter pedestrians on there and if I do I slow right down and say hello, thank you and the like. I don’t really see the problem. Enjoy your sad little argument about what constitutes a ‘cyclist’ or not. I’m going for a bike ride.
If we're doing pavement cycling, then the question is, how does the number of cyclists you've seen riding on the pavement compare to the number of cars you've seen parked on the pavement? Unless they hired cranes, all those car drivers have committed exactly the same offence as the cyclists - with the obvious difference that far more pedestrians are killed on pavements by cars than by cyclists. If you want to claim that the drivers parking on the pavement isn't a real offence as they don't cause a problem to other people if they're careful, then exactly the same point applies to careful pavement cyclists.
No excuse for cycling recklessly on the pavement, but that's because it's reckless, not directly related to where they are.
Yeah there are crap cyclists. But given the years of experience of driving many people have had how would we rate the standard of driving. Personally I see some terrible driving but what gets me is when the conditions are pretty grim either weather or traffic you still see people being stupid pulling ridiculous stunts.
It's not 'que' it's 'cue' ffs.
Queue* how awkward for you.
🙂 Richard the turd
Signage stating that a path is shared use at least warns pedestrians so they are less likely to change direction without checking to see if a cyclist is about to clip them.
Yes... I've noticed that happens a lot on shared use paths 😕
I Futher up the road I in a que
He's from Barcelona 🙂
Theres definitely more cyclists on the road who lack road craft or any genuine cycling ability (I don't mean speed or the like but the ability to actually control their bike), its incredibly noticeable as someone whose having to use a car to commute as I can't ride (tendonitis). Nearly ploughed into one bloke the other day who clearly didn't feel the need for a lifesaver before swerving into traffic!
5 year old children are allowed to ride unaccompanied on the road.
people on bikes essentially pose no risk to others so there is no requirement for them to meet any standard.
people who operate big machinery around them pose danger, and so they need to be trained and licensed to meet a standard.
It's simple really
5 year old children are allowed to ride unaccompanied on the road.people on bikes essentially pose no risk to others so there is no requirement for them to meet any standard.
people who operate big machinery around them pose danger, and so they need to be trained and licensed to meet a standard.
It's simple really
So basically you're saying that cyclists have no responsibility for their actions & can ride as badly as they chose?
everybody has a level of personal responsibility...commensurate with their age and the risk they pose to others.
everybody has a level of personal responsibility...commensurate with their age and the risk they pose to others.
True but cyclists can & do cause serious accidents.
The thing is with crap cyclists in comparison with crap motorists is that the laws of Darwinisim are far more effective on a bike .... 😈
[quote=mrlebowski ]True but cyclists can & do cause serious accidents.
Linky please
Linky please
Thx HH, but I was really after one where the cyclist was at fault 😉
I love the way on here that if you do 300 miles a week on an expensive road bike you are a cyclist as opposed to someone on a £100 bike riding 10 miles a week to work who some class as a pedestrian on a bike or someone going to work on a bike. WHILE SOMEONE IS ON A BIKE THEY ARE A CYCLIST whether some on here like it or not. If someone in a car runs someone down a motorist has done it (even if they borrow/hire a car to do 100 miles once a year).Get over it there are shit cyclists/motorists/proffesional drivers its a fact of life.
Plenty of bad behaviors on roads from all users, drivers are a problem due to the harm a vehicle can cause.
Pedestrians with the "If I don't look at you you won't run me over" game or breaking into 2 steps of a jog when caught crossing the road in front of cars.
As for cycling I see a lot of gutter hugging, leaving the cyclist nowhere to go and riding through the worst bit of the road.
RLJ in packs (the last one was on an organised charity ride 5 mins after a briefing about obeying road rules signals)
Not looking or signalling intentions
Groups riding single file in long lines making themselves impossible to pass safely when being in a bunch would be much safer.
Education for all road users needs to be better, for the vulnerable it needs to be more focused on staying alive.
Aracer an earlier for cyclist causing serious injury
[url= http://road.cc/content/news/108119-transport-minister-responsible-cyclists-can-ride-pavement ]http://road.cc/content/news/108119-transport-minister-responsible-cyclists-can-ride-pavement[/url]
In a country where 400 odd pedestrians are killed every year by motor vehicles, you're going to have to do a bit better than that as an example of a cyclist causing carnage - particularly if you want to support the assertion that cycling standards are as important as driving standards.
particularly if you want to support the assertion that cycling standards are as important as driving standards.
why wouldn't cycling standards be as important as driving standards? Everyone using the road should know what they are doing, just because a driver does something wrong doesn't mean everyone else can do what they like.
Unless you can find a way to radically improve cyclist and pedestrian safety, I would suggest training and educating those groups to be aware of the dangers that surround them is a good idea. As I said in my post I see plenty of people on bikes that look way out of their depth and likely to end up in a bad way, there are things that they can do to be safer given the level of bad driving that goes on out there.
as much as the phrase is hated
We are all in this together.
[quote=mikewsmith ]why wouldn't cycling standards be as important as driving standards?
Fairly sure it's already discussed up thread, but it's related to the amount of harm they can (and do) do to other road users. Compare car drivers killed by cyclists to cyclists killed by car drivers (or pedestrians killed by either).
Training cyclists might be a good idea, but it's not necessarily the best use of resources when it's not going to have a huge impact on the majority of cases where the cyclist has done nothing wrong.
...oh here we go
[quote=ormondroyd ]"Inconsiderate people are the same whether they're taking too many biscuits from the tin, or piloting a JCB through a crowded school playground without paying attention". See?