Squealing Hope Tech...
 

[Closed] Squealing Hope Tech 3 E4s

 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Cant cure a set of 4 month old Hope tech 3 e4’s with 203mm floating rotors from a constant subtle squeal that happens in bone dry conditions a well as wet. The calipers are perfectly centered, the pistons even, the rotor true and I only use water to clean the calipers and isopropyl alcohol for the rotors when required. Pad wear is even and lots of life left in them.

Recently tried new pads and a new Shimano rotor and the same squeal occurred. Brakes feel totally consistent, reliable and powerful but the squeal drives me nuts. Most brakes squeal in the wet, my other bike has XT which squeal until heated up then not. Previous sets of Hopes also squeal in wet until heated but not in the dry and not like these.

Going to try a piston service next but after that I am out of ideas.


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 6:00 pm
Posts: 768
Free Member
 

Pads glazed or not bedded in yet?


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 6:32 pm
Posts: 21632
Full Member
 

Try breaking shorter and harder and let us know if that makes a difference.


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 6:41 pm
Posts: 9065
Full Member
 

Mine were doing this on Sunday. Only a few months old in perfect working order. Not really normal brake squeal but a pretty constant dry screeching. Pretty annoying but haven't bothered with them yet.


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 6:46 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Pads glazed or not bedded in yet?

Pads were bedded in correctly 4 months ago when new. Also as stated above tried new rotor and new pads and got exactly the same noise.

Try breaking shorter and harder and let us know if that makes a difference.

Braking technique has has nothing to do with this noise, it is present with whatever technique you use even on new pads.


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 7:28 pm
Posts: 11
Free Member
 

The great thing about buying Hope is :- we are not alone. Contact them for help/advise.


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 8:02 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

The great thing about buying Hope is :- we are not alone. Contact them for help/advise.

Did that, their answer is all brakes squeal sometimes. They also mentioned how to clean them and sent a link to a video of Porsche brakes squealing.

None of that answered my question as to why my brakes squeal on every type of application wet or dry/new or old pads/new or old rotors/muddy or clean!


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 8:17 pm
Posts: 639
Free Member
 

Mine do it for a short while if they've been wet and are subsequently dry. After a few squeezes they generally silence down again.  My rear did it horrifically last month but just needed realigned.


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 8:31 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

That’s my experience with most brakes and why I am confused at the constant noise on this set.


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 8:37 pm
Posts: 11
Free Member
 

Front or back brake ?


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 8:38 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Front or back brake ?

Both, identical noise.


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 10:09 pm
Posts: 1086
Free Member
 

I have got exactly the same issue, but as above it is worse when wet and then quietens down. They are more noisy than my other brakes (all Shimano) have ever been. However, they are so good at stopping my bike I just live with it. They are best when I get them really hot, so I think i drag them too much.

Out of interest have you tried organic pads? I have only used sintered.

No help at all OP, but I am not sure mine are ever going to get quiet...


 
Posted : 24/04/2018 12:20 am
Posts: 0
 

My tech 3's are on their last chance! Bled em so many different ways finally got some nice power in em with little lever movement, but they just won't stop the bike, I'm on my 5th set of sintered pads and now there squealing too? These pads have only been in for 1 four hour ride, do they take a few rides to bed in or what? The squealing is new to me this week! Is anyone else using shit shifter to clean thier bike including brakes? Thinking this is the problem.


 
Posted : 24/04/2018 7:29 am
Posts: 2578
Full Member
 

Is anyone else using shit shifter to clean thier bike including brakes? Thinking this is the problem.

Water and a little bit of foaming car wash stuff, the shit shifter/muc off is traffic film remover, not keen on them at all.

The squealing will be from the brake pads vibrating, could be a lazy piston, may need greasing with the hunter silicone oil.

Find that the sintered pads can glaze over and then they will squeal. Prefer to use the organic pad as find the feel is better for me, plus they are a lot quieter.


 
Posted : 24/04/2018 8:16 am
Posts: 3508
Free Member
 

Genuine Hope pads or some other brand??


 
Posted : 24/04/2018 8:29 am
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

The squealing will be from the brake pads vibrating, could be a lazy piston, may need greasing with the hunter silicone oil.

Have ordered some of the hunter stuff so that’s my next course of action.

Pads are the standard Hope red ones that come with the brakes.


 
Posted : 24/04/2018 9:09 am
Posts: 4472
Full Member
 

im using hope pads and wmd ones with no issues.

However. i did initially. The issue was poor piston alignment and it took a couple of hours faffing to sort. A lot of working the pistons in and out and making sure they were perfectly aligned. I even dropped some cash on a piston tool to help it was that annoying.

Work without noise now. However even after bleeding i find them a little spongy.


 
Posted : 24/04/2018 9:10 am
 Sui
Posts: 3138
Full Member
 

i thought the standard answer to squealing brakes was copper grease behind the pad (or on it if you're that way inclined)...

there's going to be some sort of vibration, have you tried re-seating the calipers on the frame/forks after a good clean and using some locktight??


 
Posted : 24/04/2018 9:13 am
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Yes tried all of the above except the piston service which I will do next.


 
Posted : 24/04/2018 11:18 am
Posts: 11804
Full Member
 

It annoys me that manufacturers think that squeel is acceptable, at least Campag are attempting to address it with their new road discs.

I've never tried the copper anti-seize solution, surely putting any sort of compound on the back of the pads is just a recipe for it ending up on the front of the pads and contaminating them?

The biggest amateur mistake I ever made with Hope brakes was running the rotors the wrong way round, that made a horrible noise until someone pointed out the wee rotation direction arrow on the face of the rotor 😳


 
Posted : 24/04/2018 11:34 am
Posts: 4472
Full Member
 

dont use copperslip

if they are new. clean them with iso and work the pistons back and forth.


 
Posted : 24/04/2018 11:52 am
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

I did the piston service as per Hope instructions using hunters silicon lubricant. Freed the pistons up nicely and made them move evenly. Sadly it made zero difference to the noise.


 
Posted : 25/04/2018 7:31 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Still bloody squealing no matter what I try

https://www.flickr.com/photos/101153671@N05/43628875912/in/dateposted-public/

Anyone else’s make this noise? Brilliant feel, very reliable and powerful but can’t put up with this noise for much longer!


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 7:41 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Crap, link to my video doesn’t work. Anyway they squeal like mad when other people’s don’t. Something not right here and really don’t want to go back to Shimano just to have silent braking.

Fixed link now I think!


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 7:51 pm
Posts: 21632
Full Member
 

Not the howling I was expecting. Mine do that sometimes, but normally if I've been riding really fine dusty trails and the rotors have polished up.

Do the floating rotors rattle on the spider or are the bobbins holding them tight?


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 8:12 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Floating rotors appear solid and to not rattle. I also ruled out a polished disk by fitting a brand new rotor and the noise was exactly the same.


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 8:27 pm
Posts: 3629
Full Member
 

Mine have always made that noise, pretty much all the time. Never bothered me to be honest.

Edit: and if you've got a spare 203 rotor kicking about you want to sell, let me know.


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 8:39 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Always been OCD about having a silent bike so can’t live with it. Wonder why only certain sets do it?


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 8:43 pm
Posts: 2130
Full Member
 

Mate thats just normal brake noise with these e4's. MIne do that i in all honesty i hardly notice it 🙂

Think you need new brakes to be fair if that's annoying you. Not much you can do about it.


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 9:21 pm
Posts: 14139
Full Member
 

I saw something about Unno bikes having particularly stiff brake mounts, which makes the brake quieter. So could your frame be exacerbating the issue?

My E4s are on a Spitfire which has pretty chunky removable dropouts which the brake mounts are bolted to.


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 9:31 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Was expecting some horrific squealing banshee, that's just normal brake noise. Mine do that, front more than rear.


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 9:49 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I can honestly hardly hear anything on the video except wind noise, but just sounds like the pads are dragging a little bit. I had one which was horrible but only under braking and that turned out to be a misaligned brake mount on the rear seat stay, nothing to do with the E4 caliper.

Does it look like the pads are in constant contact (just) with the rotor?


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 9:49 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Sorry Potdog but you need a hearing test if you can’t gear a squealing brake in that video.  The noise is nothing to do with dragging or pad contact or misalignment. The noise is when I apply the brakes and simply should not happen unless it’s wet conditions and even then only until warmed up. Didn’t happen on my Hope M4s or last 3 sets of Shimano’s.


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 9:54 pm
Posts: 21632
Full Member
 

Have you tried different size rotors? It must be hitting some resonate frequency. If you can change part of the equation it might work.

Used to bolt bits on the front brake cable of cyclocross cantilevers to stop them resonating.


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 9:57 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

My E4s have made the same noise from new, I’ve always put it down to the sintered pads. I hate bike noises too but this one helps me stay off the brakes.


 
Posted : 27/07/2018 10:17 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Tried different rotor sizes but no luck. Will have one last go with Hope see if they have a solution. If not it’s back to Shimano, what a shame.


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 12:38 am
Posts: 21632
Full Member
 

Have you tried softer compound pads?


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 7:35 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I've only ever used organic on my E4's and they don't squeak at all. Though I've never suffered from brake squealing problems on any brand of brake I've used, only if I've not used the bike for a while or washed it and they squeal a bit for the first few miles of the first ride so it's nothing to do with the brand of brake. I've used Sintered on previous brakes and they have been a bit more squeally.

A couple of suggestions from me in case you've not tried them at all:

Give your disks and callipers attachment screws a good tighter..ignore torque values, just give them a good firm tighten...this is a vibration issue so tightening the bolts a bit might help dampen down any vibration.

Use Coppersliip (or equivalent). It helps dampen out vibration, prevents any binding between the pad and piston so allows the pad to float a bit in the caliper and find it's natural position. I've always used Copperslip on any brake pad wether it be on car or pad...not sure the thinking behind the comment above about not using it...it's pretty standard practice.


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 8:56 am
 tdog
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

My guess is something to do with the pads resonating.

I’m also guessing that that is affected by which type of pad you are running.

Interesting tip regarding copperslip between backing of pads and the pistons. This might greatly help your issue OP.I’m fairly sure my mechanic use to do this as standard on my motorcycle.


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 1:46 pm
 poah
Posts: 6494
Free Member
 

1/ sand pads

2/ wash discs with washing up liquid, rinse and dry

3/ sand discs


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 1:59 pm
 tdog
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Whilst we’re on the topic of brakes, does mis matching of brake rotors to brakes matter at all? Even if the disc rotors have been used?

tia


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 2:02 pm
Posts: 39663
Free Member
 

Delphi and texstar (both big brake pad manufacturers) both strongly advise not using copper slip on pads.

The 1980s just won't die.

There is no reason to do it.


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 2:04 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

With regard to the copper slip; you have tried everything else and have nothing to lose.  It has worked for me on a couple of bikes and not on others trial and error is all that is left after all of the other obvious suggestions.


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 2:28 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Edd China always used it 😁


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 2:33 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Lots of great tips but sadly nothing I haven’t already tried except the copper slip suggestion. I remember using copper slip in the dim distant past on disk brakes but thought it was considered a no no nowadays on fragile pistons and pad contamination risk.

The conclusion I am rapidly coming to is that these brakes are just horribly noisy. As the brakes are not lacking in power, feel or bite and do not fade I think we can rule out setup.


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 4:26 pm
Posts: 21632
Full Member
 

Steel or ti caliper bolts? Something is allowing a vibration.


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 5:30 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Tried both! Can’t see why one or the other would cause vibration, never did on Shimano or M4s?


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 8:13 pm
 tdog
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Maybe try Magura range 😜


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 8:22 pm
Posts: 21632
Full Member
 

Tried both! Can’t see why one or the other would cause vibration, never did on Shimano or M4s?

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth</span>


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 8:40 pm
Posts: 14139
Full Member
 

You mean you had the M4s which are identical bar the swapping of the bleed port and hose connection? Aren’t they just the same caliper internally but with a taller pad (that’s fits both)? I have M4 on one bike and E4 on the other.

Was braking a lot at low speed today with the E4s, taking my 5 and 3 year olds on a ride - the latter’s balance bike is very slow down loose rocky tracks. Basically silent and that’s with sintered pads.


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 8:43 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Good point Onzadog!

Interesting chiefgrooveguru yes I had M4s about 7 years ago I think but if I remember rightly the levers were totally different.

No noise at all you say? The plot thickens!


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 8:57 pm
Posts: 14139
Full Member
 

You probably had the old Tech levers - my M4 date from 2012 (I think) and have the Race Evo levers. My E4 have the Tech 3 levers (tool free reach and bite point adjust), which I prefer.

Not zero noise - you can hear the pad rubbing on the disc when braking lightly but fairly close to silent. As someone who works in the audio field I’m pretty intolerant of unwanted noise!


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 9:10 pm
 duir
Posts: 1176
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Definitely strange, mine have no audible rub but they make a nice sort of buzz under heavy braking which I don’t mind. The high pitch squeal though, hate it and seems some people’s E4s don’t make that noise at all.

Unreasutingly Adam Brayton’s factory setup Hope brakes (V4 I think) make exactly the same noise as mine in this video.

Just can’t fathom why some are silent and some noisy unless it’s just random chance?


 
Posted : 28/07/2018 10:39 pm