[Closed] Some good tips for dealing with situations in the outdoors...

I had a bad off last year,

now always carry decent FA kit, foil blanket or better, torch, and a Spot tracker- all in front pocket of pack

good insurance IMHO

That reminds me....

Always carry a first aid kit, whistle, foil blanket, basic gps for co-ordinates and a mobile, never thought of a torch but will add one to my kit just in case I ever need to attract “a massively noisy yellow helicopter with flashing lights”

On my Scotland 1 man adventures I have a bag, torch and I also take a whistle, spare food and leave route details with gf/mates, and set alert times and dial 999 times on it

I was riding on Dartmoor recently and met an old geezer who was rambling up on the tops who told me a story about gps co-ordinates..

He'd met a girl who'd been thrown from her horse and injured and called for help on his phone.. he had gps but the operator didn't know what he was talking about

Does anyone have any experience of calling in a situation and the best way to provide location details..?

Does anyone have any experience of calling in a situation and the best way to provide location details..?

I'll try to bleed toward the car park, ask the paramedic to follow the red stuff up from the road to its source."

Guess maybe the GPS was set to OS co-ordinates not Lat/Long? Or had bled on the screen too much and read them out wrong

There's a free smartphone app called Echo 112 which'll call emergency services for you and also give them a link to a map showing your exact location and coordinates - [url= http://www.echo112.com ]http://www.echo112.com[/url] - obviously it needs a phone connection, but if you're calling out MR in the first place, presumably you have one. Works internationally as well.

First aid kit always the rest depends on where and with who.

After my bad fall last year at Glentress when I opened my knee to the patella and tendons we try to make sure one of us is carrying butterfly sutures, foil blanket, alcohol wipes etc. Prior to that none of us took FA stuff to trail centres - I guess you become complacent when you are somewhere that doesn't feel 'wild'.

That app looks good.

A good reminder as I ride with v little safety gear. Some basic FA and a foil blanket should be there but are not at the moment. Do not ride TC much apart from the odd trip to Swinley and Whinlatter, so I should be better prepared.

Guess maybe the GPS was set to OS co-ordinates not Lat/Long?

A good operator should be able to work from both. Outdoorsy-type people generally know how to give OS co-ordinates, but giving Lat/Long is a whole different ball-park.

Recently had to call for a fairly bad injury - not me but somebody in our group - had OS grid ref etc. but the operator could hardly speak English and didn't really know what we were talking about regards grid ref. When asked if she could check the grid ref against the map before we hung up (wanted to be sure we weren't sending any crew on a goose chase as we pulled it off phone gps)we were told "I just pass it on, I don't have any way of checking".

We sent people to meet the ambulance at the road and they walked the crew in, who had left in a rush from a prior job and whilst they got there fast I actually had to supplement some of their kit with my own. They didn't have any webbing straps for their spine board and I was using a synthetic conforming bandage to help secure the casualty - they were trying to use fabric adhesive tape! I was certainly glad I had a foil blanket and my own kit.

I have used my first aid kit in anger twice over the past couple of months, and at least four times over the past year - all riding bikes for fun. I'll carry a torch on longer more remote rides but I always have the basics with me, without fail. Even if you can't really do a huge amount to help in reality with a serious injury, having some basic kit and a bit of knowledge can make people feel so much more at ease and confident and that alone is worth the effort for me.

For what it's worth the recent time was at a TC and fairly close to the road. The injury was as serious as I saw in ten years of working professionally in the outdoors. I think location has very little to do with it, with a few exceptions.

always amazes me what little[nothing] a MTB er will carry with them in the wilderness

I do have a foil emergency blanket [ summer use]
Bivvy bag and decent down jacket [ packs small] for winter
Small first aid kit
Torch
Whistle - wonder how many MTB ers know the blast code for their whistle?

6 whistles in a minute wait a minute repeat

Wowzers, when I mentioned I carried this stuff inc foil blanket couple of years back I got well flamed!

To be honest, that "5 top tips" is pretty much exactly what me and a mate did years ago when he went OTB and broke his pelvis.

Got the warmth, shelter, make comfortable bit sorted, made a plan, changed it when it became obvious that he wasn't moving, called out Mtn Rescue having already got useful things like co-ordinates, full description of injuries etc.

The emergency services operator knew exactly what we meant by grid ref.

Mtn Rescue called out the massively noisy yellow helicopter with flashing lights. 🙂

I started as a mate got a puncture twice on a descent in winter and [ three of us] took it in turns to do the repair and taking it in turns to do star jumps and hide in a ditch.

Makes you realise how much trouble you would be in if immobile and waiting an hour for rescue

never needed it though but the weight penalty is pretty minor [ pack less water in winter to compensate

There's a foil blanket, orange sack and first aid kit in my camelpack.

I had this agrument with TJ years ago (it must have been memorable because someone I didn't know beforehand came upto me in Spain and reminded me!), yes you may be no more than a couple of miles from a road/civilisation, but a couple of miles can be a very long way with a broken leg!

Does anyone have any experience of calling in a situation and the best way to provide location details..?

I've given lat/long before because I had my garmin to hand. I'd echo the concern about getting it right though, 6 digit OS referances are probably of more use to MRT than lat/long anyway.

Thanks for the headsup BWD... that Echo112 looks a great app to have.

A mate had a classic OTB moment not far from Tan Hill and broke his collarbone. For once somebody in the group had a foil blanket which was definitely needed as he started shivering and went grey. Somebody else went off to get a mobile signal while the rest of us walked him slowly to the road fortunately not far away. However it took the ambulance 45mins to get there as it was coming from Northallerton!
OK he wasn't going to die of a broken collar bone and they didn't do much apart from put it in a sling but that's a hell of a distance to come if something more serious had happened. Presumably they rely on the air ambulance in remoter areas.
Anyway we are all much better about carrying FA gear !

For me, even on a local ride, I carry

SOL foil survival bag
Ortlieb waterproof first aid kit
Paracord
gorilla tape
Rab synthetic hoody jacket
Waterproof jacket and trousers
Rab fleecy beanie
Spare Gloves
Torch
Whistle
Charged phone

For further afield, a GPS, map, compass, water bottle filter and a fire stick get taken with me.

It sounds like a lot but to be fair, it doesn't weigh that much and I'd rather have and not use than not have and wish I did! 😀

At work we had an incident recently and required an ambulance to a remote rural location, very disappointingly the ambulance service would not accept the grid reference (which was handily on the equipment room door) but wanted a post code (which being in the countryside would have been very vague and was not known anyway).

Very unimpressed.

I leave everything in my Camelbak regardless of where I'm riding and then I can't forget anything if I'm out in the "wilderness" (Bradford). I may be the only commuter on the roads of south Leeds carrying a whistle, silver blanket, compass....

here's a free smartphone app called Echo 112 which'll call emergency services for you and also give them a link to a map showing your exact location and coordinates - http://www.echo112.com - obviously it needs a phone connection, but if you're calling out MR in the first place, presumably you have one. Works internationally as well.

App looks great. I've recently joined MR and I know we can 'Ping' phones by text to gather this information, same idea but in reverse. I believe though that a Senior Police officer needs to authorise this so may be another unnecessary delay. *

*don't quote me on this, I still a newbie to the team!

There have been complaints in the past about 999 call takers not accepting OS grid refs but asking for postcodes. Even here in Wilts a postcode isn't going to be any use on the Downs, in the unlikely event that you know what it is. You have to wonder who made this decision.

Oh, and hook a whistle on the zip of each of your riding jackets. It's a nice chunky grip for cold hands, and it's always there.

Coming to MTB from climbing & mountaineering i was amazed how few people i met carried emergency kit of even the most basic kind. But after meeting so many who don't even carry tools/spares i am far less so today.

Knowing you can ring 112 rather than 999 to use any network for emergency calls is well with knowing. I only found out a fortnight ago but it could have saved me from a 4 hour wait in a blizzard with a broken femur a few years ago!

And you can text 112, but you need to register first.

All good stuff but, without wishing to appear patronising, on a day ride you can get away with a fairly minimal first aid kit (ie just a field dressing) and improvise if required so long as your basic knowledge of first aid is ok. If you don't know what to do then no amount of plasters, steri strips etc will help you.

I'm not really a fan of foil blankets - ime they're fairly useless if it is genuinely cold. The SOL bivi bag is pretty good although it's a bugger to get back into its bag once you've opened it...

I think one of the key bits of kit in winter is a decent belay jacket (ie a warm hooded synthetic jacket) - instant morale if you have to stop for a mechanical or injury.

Scuse my ignorance, but doesn't a 999 call route through the best-service base station, any network, or is that history?

According to Wikipedia, the information in that video is incorrect:

999 or 112 is used to contact the emergency services upon witnessing or being involved in an emergency. In the United Kingdom, the numbers 999 and 112 both connect to the same service, and there is no priority or charge for either of them...999 is also accessible via SMS for pre-registered users.

Can't find any independent source on this, but it makes sense - why would the network operators implement a system that prioritised one number? It would just generate confusion and controversy if they didn't work the same way.

I'm rarely riding more than 20 minutes from a source of tea and cakes.

This seems relevant:

[quote=buzz-lightyear ]I'm rarely riding more than 20 minutes from a source of tea and cakes.

+1

I'm right out there in the Surrey wilderness 🙂

Thought this was good from Peter Verdone

http://www.peterverdone.com/?p=2533

Oh god, the 999/112 thing keep coming around again and again. Utter cobblers. Find my post from a few months back if you want more detail.

As for kit carried, I had to have foil blanket, basic first aid kit, etc when doing a Rat Race a few years ago - it takes up so little space I haven't bothered taking out of the camelbak.

Yep it doesn't take much to be sufficient on the trails/mountains.

I'd rather not be sat waiting for help somewhere like Whinlatter, there were certain days up on the top south loop where traffic was very low on some days and very exposed (on the days when people skipped doing it 🙂 )

I don't normally take a foil blanket but do have a jacket & spare long sleeved top riding in the UK. Money is very useful (change and paper in case you do need to use a phone box) tools to fix basic emergencies/fails to avoid a walk home.

I did a winter mountaineering skills course years ago which was trying to strike the balance between prepared & catering for every eventuality. The rational being if you lugged all the crap round with you the chances of being caught out increased as you would be moving slower.
Include in your first aid kit stuff you know how to use - stop bleeding, reduce pain, strap to limp out (bandage for snake bites here in Oz).
Navigation, even in a trail centre take the map - what happens if you miss a turn? (or want to look back and do something again) or need to get back PDQ.
Zip ties and some tape round your pump handle can be a saviour.

In reality if you break something at the furthest point out on your ride do you have enough food/water/daylight to make it back?

Ming the Merciless - Member

At work we had an incident recently and required an ambulance to a remote rural location, very disappointingly the ambulance service would not accept the grid reference (which was handily on the equipment room door) but wanted a post code (which being in the countryside would have been very vague and was not known anyway).

a couple of time out and about and come across stuff have found it easiest to give location of nearest main rd and distance from a town and ask the operator to get the MRT leader to ring and then you can have a sensible conversation with OS map references - would like to think with the near universality of GPS phones co-ordinates could be accepted with a check against an online map to see if makes rough sense against name near location ringing from - that is low cost technology plus some training in what questions work best - it is important that resources are directed to the right location but insistence on post codes doesn't work

Old generation me and remember Doug Scott crawling down the Ogre with two broken legs and have a if I got into it then I should be able to sort it out attitude but carry a foil blanket and some basic fix up a gushing wound first aid kit as have come across a few nasty incidents

Apart from the few on here who are obviously highly trained professionals who carries a first aid kit and what does it contain? I have never bothered as I work on the assumption if a plaster will fix it, I'll be ok without and if its a bigger hole I'll stuff a jumper in it. As for broken bones I can improvise a sling if its a broken collar bone from clothes or spare tube and if its a more serious break, keeping a patient warm and waiting for help is the best option.

For the pro's what sort of painkillers should I give someone that wont cause problems later?

The torch idea is a good one.... I need to act on that.

For winter riding I carry extra clothes because any accident big enough to stop me moving will probably involve shock. These fit over my existing gear so I don't have to strip off. It's bulky though.

I learned not to carry a pullover spare fleece the hard way when I dislocated my shoulder on icy ruts in the middle of nowhere. Zips are good. 🙂

What I always take with me is a dose of caution (and duct tape thanks to TJ 🙂 ).

anagallis_arvensis - Member

For the pro's what sort of painkillers should I give someone that wont cause problems later?

It's a good question that. When I bust my hip, I knew I was pretty hurt so I didn't take any painkillers till I'd been seen at A&E. They said "What painkillers have you taken", I said none, they said "Why the **** not? Are you mental? That must hurt like hell!"

So since then, I carry a couple of tramadol in my pack, in case I ever want to walk off a mountain on a broken leg or something. But I am not a pro, hopefully someone on here will have a better answer.

Foil blanket is a goodie, they're not very durable but they can make you a lot more comfortable, but also, one hell of a lot more visible. Proper survival bag is obviously better but also bulkier.

I met a chap in the pentlands who had an avvy bag, thought that was slightly odd but hey.

For the pro's what sort of painkillers should I give someone that wont cause problems later?

Nothing in case they want to give you something at hospital.

I broke my collarbone in May, carried on riding (another 25 miles...), made it home, got showered and changed then got the bus to hospital. They asked the same question (I hadn't had anything), I was hoping for tramadol but they gave me co-codamol instead.

Tramadol are bloody horrible things, no use for me if I wanted to walk off a mountain, I struggled to move off the sofa for about 6 hours last time I took some. 😥

Nothing in case they want to give you something at hospital.

is this your professional opinion or are you just naturally cautious like me, I would presume as long as you kept clear of opiate based stuff you should be ok.

[i]Wowzers, when I mentioned I carried this stuff inc foil blanket couple of years back I got well flamed! [/i]

yeah remember that thread. there are ways of saying it, and TJ was a 'bit', well, you know, TJish about it it all. But...In all honestly those foil blankets are pretty useless, plasters are as well, if it's small enough to be sorted by a plaster, probably don't need anything. If it's larger, then a plaster's not going to be much use. IME it's better to know what to do to get good help to where you are if it all goes PT as quickly as poss, rather than effing about with FA*

* having said that DRAB is vital if they've had a big one.

Came off a bike doing a steep technical section of a track in the Mohave desert during a mates stag do in Vegas - bike was ok, but my helmet was a write off, had a broken rib and a badly gashed knee and deep cut on my elbow.

Luckily we were on our way back but we were still 4 miles from the road where our van was so I had to ride out, feeling each bump in my ribs and cleaned up the cuts as best we could at the van.

Back at the hotel room I called the hotel reception for some plasters and they told me they didn't have any but to go down to the concierge desk and ask them - so I walked down through the reception at the MGM Grand still in my torn and bloodied mountain bike gear, and everyone just stood staring at me as I walked past the massive queues for check in over to the concierge who said in a loud shrill voice "Oh my GAWD, you're a biohazard!"

Got my plasters, had a shower, the liberal use of single malt and a trip to Spearmint Rhino were my painkillers and only went to the hospital to clean everything up and confirm the broken rip a few days later when I arrived home from the trip (well I wasn't going to waste a trip to Vegas by sitting in the hospital - and anyway there's not much you can do with a broken rib).

I'm going to own up to being pretty badly prepared...I carry nowt with me. Only stuff in my camel back is sqaush, few energy bars including an emergency gel, multi tool, tool for my Cane Creek shock, tyre levers, patches, spare tube, mini pump and a shock pump. On wetter days I'll take a gillet or a jacket with me. When I'm riding locally, I don't even take this...just my phone and car key.

My lack of preparation was shown up a couple of weeks ago though. I was in Hopwas on a Sunday morning and bumped into two guys who I needed up riding with. I showed them a line that they'd not ridden before. Nothing too major; short run of three jumps and a table top at the bottom.

Everything was hunky dory, we all did a couple of runs then one of the guys blew his tyre off is rim. Fixed it so we thought we'd have one last run before moving to a different one...this didn't go so well.

The guy who had been having issues with his tyres pinned the line and overshot the landing for table top...big time. He put his front wheel down as if to hit the landing but he was so far past it that he nose wheelies into a nearby tree at high speed with most of the impact going through his head / neck.

Almost immediately it was apparent that he was in a bad way complaining about his neck – his full face was toast. The other chap and I managed to get his bike untangled from him without moving him. We called an ambulance but only I knew where we were so directed agreed to meet the ambulance at the nearest main road. I met the crew and helped them carry their stuff in to him. By the time we got there he was in a bad way; white as a sheet, shivering, struggling to take deep breaths and in a lot of pain. As riders we had naff all to put over him to help keep him warm.

The ambulance crew tried to arrange for an air ambulance when they realised that he was pretty badly injured but there was nowhere suitable for it to land. Another crew were dispatched who I had to go and meet and guide in. A specialist crew were then sent with an offroad buggy (they described themselves as the ground version of the air ambulance) to retrieve him.

All of this took a fair amount of time - but the crews were fantastic (two of them were MTBers so were not surprised, but gave us some stick for mucking about on DH stuff). The chap is OK - four broken vertebrae but will walk / ride again.

I often ride on my own and have ridden this line so many times - not sure what I would have done if I had been the injured rider and was on my own. It does make you think a bit - all of this was no more than 15 minutes from the main road but the lines there are generally quite hidden.

I think I'll be rethinking my lack of first aid equipment (not that it would have helped much in this situation - but it would have helped my knee when I came off at Cannock the other week. Cleaning a deepish hole in my knee up after finishing my ride was pretty painful).

I had an off on my own many years ago in Hong Kong on Lantau whilst searching for rideable routes on the peak - opened my left leg up from Knee to ankle. On my own - and with no phone. Long story short I struggled out - the wound had swelled so much it could not be stitched and I have been left with a very nasty scar....

Since then I have seen this as a 'lucky escape' and I really do think about what extra I need to take for each ride in addition to the standard kit I leave in my pack at all times.

Things I to add the general list of items people have been offering up - a wooly hat in the winter, good head torch (torches have been mentioned). Leg warmers for a man down in shorts / cover a bad cut.

Here's a bit of a follow-up, including the use of 999 and 112.

http://www.mcofs.org.uk/emergency-procedures-card.asp

IIRC the anti-foil-blanket thing revolved around "ambulances don't carry them". Which is not useful info, because we're not ambulances. "Better than nothing" is still useful- they can keep a bit of rain and wind off, they keep a small amount of warmth in, and they're very visible.

At the end of the day, you're never going to regret having one. You might wish you had a survival bag though.

I've stopped popping as many pain killers in now as I go through proper customs too often...
But Tramadol for the OH **** moment when you have to sit it out waiting for rescue trying not to scream
Nice clean bandages are better than a plaster/jumper and some would closure strips, not a pro but dome some first aid and normally take a vet (the missus with us)
However she broke her ankle in the presence of a Vet, Anaesthetist and an acupuncturist who had nothing between them 🙁

I would also suggest that for those who are not carrying anything or know anything they go on a first aid course for them and their mates. I have seen enough and helped enough to be glad of what I have learned. Being careful doesn't count. Shit happens. A friend once complimented me on my calmness and organisation getting a mate an ambulance and bikes off a mountain and someone in the ambulance with the mate and all arriving at the hospital at once. It's skills/knowledge I wish I didn't have but it comes in useful.

The foil blankets are, however, very fragile. I've seen someone unpack one and be left holding two small handfuls of plastic foil with the rest disappearing in a gale 🙂

reminds me of when my mate had my emergency shelter for about 8 months, ended up giving it back which was when I realised I had lost my emergency shelter and he had been carrying a small and not very waterproof jacket round with him 🙂