On my journey to work this morning, I approached (coming down a hill) to a junction and wanted to turn left (which then bends right 90 degrees straight after the junction). Just as I pulled out, a cyclist shot out of the junction (carrying the speed she had got by going down the hill) on my inside and proceeded to drift right across in front of my car causing me to brake.
100 metres down the road and she came to a narrowing of the road so she hopped onto the pavement in order to leapfrog the queuing cars. Then she sailed right through a red light too.
And we wonder why many motorists treat us with utter contempt.
Where is the Napalm?
Next time you see her don't touch the middle pedal....
awwww, you had to brake, diddums 👿
****ers think they own the road, they don't even pay road tax or have insurance!!!!!
Its not clear from the first post who had right of way
So, she's a better rider than you eh?
Jealousy is such an ugly emotion.
Well you're taught when learning to drive that if you cause another driver to take action (i.e. brake) then it's poor driving (test failing poor) so surely the same should apply to cycling?
(excluding things like driving too slow)
thats pretty much how i ride!
any angry car drivers are just jealous that I/we are gettign arround quicker on £30quids worth of pub bike than their flash motor 🙂
I think you notice it more being a cyclist yourself MF, it gets me going too, you only have to ask my Mrs when I see a RLJ on a bike 😉
I keep trying to remember it the person behaving badly and has nothing to do with the vehicle.
YOu should always give Women plenty
of space especially when using a set of wheels, cars, bikes,buses, and shoping trolleys.
You know it makes sence.
Project- you may have missed out on four legs there ( horse riding).
naaa, horses you can cut up, preferably while going wuickly and screaming neeeeeeeeooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww on the way past.
At least thats how i intend to treat them after being cut up by a horsebox last night.
Its not clear from the first post who had right of way
Of course it is clear - I was in front of her and she undertook which is an illegal manoeuvre. Then moved across the road from left to right without indication.
She was in the wrong on two counts within 2 seconds of each other.
Ohh, and I was in a car BTW - one post seems to assume I was riding too.
Clear to you but not to me [i]from your post[/i]. However that clarifies it
Undertaking on a bicycle is not necessarily an illegal manoeuvre - there has been much debate on this without resolution. Previous editions of the highway code definitely had legal undertaking " when traffic moving slowly in queues" which would allow a bicycle to undertake, cycle lanes and the lead in to ASLS are on the left - unusable without undertaking. Current highway code has something about car drivers beware of bikes on the left.
It is not as clear as undertaking on a bicycle is illegal
having been driven into, cut in on etc so many times when riding correctly I figure I might as well ride as I please :o)
good girl... that's exactly how I get around through the traffic.
The basic point is that she wanted to go right. If I had been going straight on or left, the chances are I could have smacked straight into the side of her. Mercy had it that I was also going right so we were BROADLY travelling in the same direction.
Whatever the semantics of undertaking in slow moving traffic, it was at a junction and it was only slow moving as I had slowed for the Give Way.
And my point was made to illustrate just WHY some motorists treat us cyclists so badly - they see that sort of riding and assume we all ride like c*cks.
that's exactly how I get around through the traffic.
And that is exactly why we are treated so badly by many motorists. Brainless attitude IMO.
There are far more bad cyclists that motorists in london, but then its a lot easier to obtain a bike.
At least they're very unlikely to kill anyone on a bicycle.
The sad thing is if you had hit her because of her appalling riding you would have been held responsible as the big bad car driver. Riders who decide to take to the road at night in dark clobber and with no lights are also a major problem and you're right; people like that are the reason why all god fearing Daily Mail readers hate us cyclists.
Best thing to do if it ever happens again is to draw along side her and give your windscreen a good wash; a mouth full of screen wash first thing in the morning may wake the dozy cow up.
lets get this straight.
you had to move you right foot (and possible depress the clutch with you left) whilst sat on you arse because some lass on a bike was using the road and doing a dam fine job by the sounds of it?
was she a fitter? she sounds like my kinda girl.
whilst I must admit that I am not , hopefully, to inconsiderate a rider I am very pro active on the bike. I am reaching the point where I feel that our image is totally irrelevant. We are dislike by many but so what. Try being a motorcyclist if you want to be in a minority. Good luck to here, if she lives of course
And my point was made to illustrate just WHY some motorists treat us cyclists so badly
flawed reasoning - you have no way to tell why they do things - one might as easily posit that most of them are thinking about other things like sex and food and scarcely register small things like bikes and people
You do seem to have a lot of issues in your life don't you?
What I don't understand is why some cyclists seem to think they *have* to ride on the left of all the cars all the time.
If you see a car indicating right you don't over take it on the right, you either go left or wait behind it. Same applies whether you're on a bike or in a car. Why cyclists feel they can undertake cars that are indicating left is beyond me.
if it ever happens again is to draw along side her and give your windscreen a good wash
Yes, that'll work, but how are you going to get the washer fluid off the windscreen when the wipers are lying at the side of the road?
Someone did similar to me the other day, utterly oblivious to what she'd done wrong until I pulled level with her and called her an idiot as loud as I could. Modes of transport were reversed, but the principles are the same. Overtaking/undertaking someone at a junction is extremely stupid.
Whats wrong with her riding?? I do that all the time, everday basically riding on the road. Best way to beat traffic, jump on the pavement. 😆
Was she fit?
Have to agree some shoddy cycling observed
so she was in the wrong on 2 counts then. i remember you being wrong by riding on a footpath once, when somebody gave you a smack.
you are a 1st class whinger really.
We are being paid a visit by the dreaded "crabby mastiles". Someone not sleeping? 😉
Fair play to the lass. She sounds cool. Did you get her number!
shocking-girls ride bikes?
they try
[i]Riders who decide to take to the road at night in dark clobber and with no lights are also a major problem and you're right; people like that are the reason why all god fearing Daily Mail readers hate us cyclists.[/i]
Not that I'm condoning it, but from accident statistics, it would appear to carry no more risk than having lights. Before anyone asks, no I can't remember the link to the source of this data 🙂
Dont see a problem with that riding personally.
On a bike you have to alternate between a very defensive style and a very assertive style. Drivers need to be very clear about where you are, and what you are planning to do. This can involve hogging a lane so that drivers are not tempted to squeeze past when turning right at a rbout etc.
CHB, that's not an assertive or defensive style, it's just stupid. Look at it this way; A car overtakes you on your bike as you pull out of a junction and then cuts you up. Surely you wouldn't consider that acceptable?
There's no need to cycle like a nob if you cycle defensively. Admittedly theres no reason why the car driver shouldnt have to brake occasionally, but likewise she shouldnt be jumpign reds. The number of near-misses I've had with cyclists jumping reds is getting beyond the joke, yet still I hear morons on here advocating it as a clever way of beating traffic that hurts no-one. However on a cycle forum if you're going to post an message that could possibly be construed as negative towards cyclists despite them acting dangerously, you can expect to get a stupid answer and be blamed for all the problems on the road. It is funny how assertive cycling can be taken to mean anything some people want it to, even if it is obviously stupid behaviour to the rest of the adult world.
even if it is obviously stupid behaviour to the rest of the adult world.
whereas amusingly throwing things at cyclists and "accidentally" running into them is seen as harmless fun or inevitable...
Coffeeking - jumping reds can be safer than waiting at them - it all depends on circumstances. I don't do it often but there are a few place where waiting at the red puts you in danger - going 20 seconds early does not
at the end of the day, all shes done is piss you off.
shes only endangered her own safety. (and maybe the safety of your paintwork)
I agree with you, she sounds like a ****in moron, cutting up traffic that hasnt seen her, running reds etc,
but then again, when im on a bike, im a right ****t,
one has to be, because you can guarantee the one driver you give an inch, hasnt seen you, or more realistically hasnt looked for you.
raising the pulses of a few innocents a little, keeps mine (pulse) in working order, not reliant on a machine.
**** em'
It never fails to amaze me the number of cyclist that pass me while I'm stopped at a junction and who I later pedal past.
If you're in such a hurry - PEDAL HARDER!!!
This has become a very interesting thread and I can honestly say that I cannot believe for a second that anyone could think her riding was in any way acceptable and condone riding in that manner. I can only assume that those that think that riding in that manner is sensible are the ones that further add to the bad image cyclists have with the general public.
And yes, I do admit to riding on a footpath, but that particular circumstance is VERY different to the one I outlined in my OP - it is part of a network of bridleways and footpaths on private land and one that cannot be avoided if I want to link up the bridleways. Harrogate Council admit it is not ideal but they are currently powerless to change the access on it. They have done so on other footpaths in the network. And for what it is worth, on that footpath I do not ride with disregard for other users unlike the woman yesterday.
Ohh, and running red lights is safer in some circumstances? Think about what you have just said and consider WHY the light is at red will you. It might save your life one day.
Mastiles - its easy.
The couple of places where I sometimes run a red light are where there is a bottleneck shortly after the lights and another set of lights not far away. If you set off 20 seconds early you get to the bottleneck ahead of the cars thus are not squashed into the kerb as cars try to get past you and arrive at the next set of lights ahead of them as well thus can change lanes in more safety.
Basically going early keeps you out of the way of cars, going on green gets you in the way of the cars. Both sets you are not going on green for cars any direction but on the end of the green man - so after the pedestrians have cleared the junction. You can also see the whole junction and the feeder roads so can see if there are any cars on the side roads.
I don't always do it - it depends on the traffic around and whether there are illegally parked cars making the bottlenecks worse
What are traffic lights for? To control the movement of cars not to make it safer for cyclists.
Oh, I thought this was taking place somewhere of interest. I'm not really interested in stuff happening in other countries.
What are traffic lights for? To control the movement of cars
No, they are to control the movement of vehicles, not cars. But good on you if you think it is safer to ride through a red light totally unprotected on a bicycle. You had just better hope that there is no-one thinking it is okay to do take a similar chance coming from the other direction of traffic in a big heavy metal car-type thingie...
Mastiles - can you read? AS in my post above at these junctions that I know well I am not crossing when it is green for any cars but on the end of the green man and I can see hundreds of yards in the direction any car could come from. So if there is a car that could put me in danger I don't go. However due to very poor road layout it is usually safer to go thru ahead of the cars.
Two points:
Riding through a red light when there is clear visibility and no vehicles approaching is clearly safer for a cyclist than getting embroiled in the green light drag race.
Riding without lights at night is no more dangerous because the injuries caused by people not seeing you are compensated for by those you avoid because they find it harder to aim at you.
Having read all the above with interest, it's a good job MF didn't take her out as approx half of you would be on his case as a murdering car driver. I am truly amazed at the way people condone cyclists that ride like that and also the typical 'i'm so tough' comments about windscreen wipers etc
The whole world needs a big **** off chill pill
Tandem and Onewheel - I give up - if you think it works for you then go for it.
Ride safe.
Mastiles - can you read? Please try reading my post. It is clearly safer in some circumstances to jump lights.
I like to observe what I am doing and the vehicles around - not just blindly follow rules.
If I can see all the roads feeding into the junction and know all the cars are at red lights and stationary where is the danger coming from?
I do not ride on pavements getting into arguments with pedestrians. I ride defensively and safely. Only 40 yrs of urban riding with no significant accidents
I must say I'm dissapointed that so many here seem to think it's OK to ride like a complete idiot on the road. I agree that you need to ride defensively on the road, but if we randomly ignore the highway code then we'll just re-enforce the generally anti-bike feeling of many other road users.
I like to observe what I am doing and the vehicles around - not just blindly follow rules.
And when everyone else takes the same approach to using traffic lights? **** it, let's just get rid of them all. Actually, that might not be a bad idea in many circumstances, but that is another story...
Crossing a junction on red light is no more dangerous than crossing a normal crossroads.
As long as in jumping the red you do not have any impact on the speed or position of any other road user or pedestrian then I see no problem if its a safer alternative than riding with the traffic.
In london however IMO, there are few traffic light junctions that it is neccessary to jump on red for safety reasons. And so its better to wait for the lights rather than give angry motorists more fuel to their ire.
This must be the most exciting thing to happen in Harrogate for years. Gosh, I envy you.
Mastiles are you thick? Or just incapable of understanding? Or incapable of reading what others have written
At these two junctions I can see every car and every approach to the junction for at least 100 yds.
Both junctions have pinch points shortly after them often with illegally parked cars. If you wait until the lights go green no matter what your road positioning you get put in danger at the pinch points.
If you go 20 seconds early while the traffic lights are red for all cars and after I have checked that there are no moving cars in any direction then you arrive at the pinch points before the cars. Thus it is safer for me. I will be turning right at the next junction
So I am left with a choice - follow the rules of the road to the letter and be put in danger or maximise my own safety at no inconvenience or danger to to others by breaking the law.
By doing what I do I not only avoid the cars attempting to overtake at the pinch points but can get into the correct position to turn right at the next junction without having to cross a line of moving traffic
You have previously admitted to riding on footpaths - so you do not obey all laws either. Stop being such a sanctimonious hypocrite
Running a red light on a bike is like crossing a road with no pedestrian crossing.
Yes it can be done dangerously, but if you're careful it is no more dangerous.
I'm not talking about travelling full pelt through a red light and hoping to be able to swerve through the traffic, and hoping that they can avoid you. That's like running out into the road without looking (which many pedestrians do, but you get few rants in the Daily Mail about).
At the end of the day if that makes your blood boil you need to get a life. No offence.
Ohh how I like it when people resort to being offensive - it shows them in their true colours.
Love to all, I am not going to add any more to a thread where the level of discussion has resorted to schoolyard name-calling.
x
You must've gone to a pretty posh school for "sanctimonious hypocrite" to be schoolyard name calling!
I agree with phil, Tandem and onewheelgood.
SOMETIMES it is safer to jump a red light. I don't do this often, in fact TandemJeremy described exactly the situations where I do jump lights, to avoid green light log jams. My judgement is that in certain instances this is the safer option. On a bike my concern is for safety over and above the highway code.
In fairness to Mastilles, it is entirely possible the girl was cycling like a nutter. But not everyone who sometimes jumps red lights or path hops is an evil cyclist.
philjunior - MemberYou must've gone to a pretty posh school for "sanctimonious hypocrite" to be schoolyard name calling!
he called him thick too. I'm telling sir.
I thought "sanctimonious hypocrite" was a statement of fact 🙂
Certainly Mastiles tone was sanctimonious IMO
- if you think it works for you then go for it.Ride safe.
And this is clearly hypocrisy
And yes, I do admit to riding on a footpath,
so its OK for you to break traffic law when you feel its the right thing for you to do but anyone else doing it is an idiot?
back away from the thread TJ
OK
back away from the thread TJ
LOL
I run a cpl of reds similar to TJs example, greenlight drag races are not nice, but it IS breaking the law/HW code whatever so I won't get on people cases about RLJ in general other than to not be stupid about it.
It does piss me off when I'm sat at a redlight and another cyclists rides straight passed me, it's bad manners IMO but as I said cant get too hypocritical about it.
As for the "giving cyclists a bad name" that argument was, is and always shall be BS. I regularly have near misses with idiots who don't look where they are driving but I don't walk into work moaning about all car drivers being bloody incompetant ****wits (admittedly my riding style is based on that assumption) that would just be stupidity on my part.
so its OK for you to break traffic law when you feel its the right thing for you to do but anyone else doing it is an idiot?
He didn't break a traffic law, he rode his bike on a public footpath.
I jump one red light on the way home a left turn cars coming out of that road turning right so no chance I can be hit by anything.
If I wait i then get cars going mental at me down a B road as they cannot overtake as I am out wide(overgrown hedge and thorny) in the road. If I go on red i clear it before they catch may. If it is Green I wait for it to change as it is a bit of a death alley IMHO
If a cyclist was waiting at a set of lights I would stop and chat ...clearly NOT if it was DONK I would need the head start.
Apart from that I dont jump them ...anymore
this incident and your previous incident (on the footpath) have one thing that makes them very similar in my opinion.
the cyclist, on both occasions, was behaving in a way that a large proportion of the general public would deem to be wrong. you seem to think there were some mitigating circumstances in your favour. maybe you should allow the same priveledge to other cyclists.
did you have your indicator on?
i know you can only say yes, whether you did or not, but it really racks me off when people dont indicate.
did you have your indicator on?
No I didn't - I was going straight on - the road just beared to the right.
And it was on a one-way street.
If I had indicated left people would assume I was going immediate left (or possibly going on the second left which is immediately after the first left). If I was indicating right I would have been given a very wide berth by anyone watching where they were going and thinking about the circumstances 🙂
And if I HAD been indicating left she really would have been ****ing stupid!
My take on it and it and it's the way I ride/drive, is if the person in the other vehicle had time to react then there was obviously enough space for me to move into.
Don't be afraid to use the brakes. That's why they fitted them in the first place.
All this talk of left, right, left has got me really confused......................
ap - become a nationalist then you don't have to worry about the left right thang.
I think any person, of licensable age, who wishes to ride on a public road should have to pass a basic competence test before they go near a road. They should also have to pass an advanced cycling test, within 6 months of the first test, to prove competence before being issued with a cycling licence, which would be endorsable just like your driving licence is.
Of course insurance would also be compulsory, approved helmets compulsory and some kind of identification clearly displayed on the rider.
With cyclist accountable like any other road user they may not be in such a rush to ride recklessly and break the law.
I think i shall run for local government with this as my prime policy, i will then be free to screw the general public in any way i wish.
I always stop and allow ladies on horseback to pass.
This gives me the opportunity to observe their [s]posteriors[/s] posture.
Ooh.. jodhpurs....
Your take on it is simply wrong Muggomagic. Please start riding and driving with a bit more courtesy towards others. I don't want to run you over or drive into the back of you thanks, and my reactions might not be as good as yours.
Ohh, and running red lights is safer in some circumstances? Think about what you have just said and consider WHY the light is at red will you. It might save your life one day.
It can be.
How about this one?
I'm in a single lane side street and want to turn left (towards town) into a 4 lane dual carriageway. The dual carriegeway ends about 100m later at a T junction and I need to make a right turn there so need to be in lane 3 of 4.
There is no filter on the lights out the side street, but there is a filter so traffic coming from town can turn right into my side street.
Now, I have two options. I can wait for my light to go green, in which case I'm trying to take up the whole of lane 3 but still being passed on both sides by traffic.
Or I can go when the traffic from my right is stopped to let the traffic from town go into my sidestreet. This clearly involves jumping a red light but the traffic going into the carriageway I am joining has been stopped, and the 10-15 secs is enough to get to the queue of traffic at the end of the dual carriageway.
Which is safest and what should I do?
(For Edinburgh people, this is the left turn from Canning Street onto the West Approach Road, then right into Lothian Road).
I see your point StuN. That sounds like a nasty junction and one which I'd try to avoid. Mind you, it's also safer for car drivers to RLJ there, no? Is it really that dangerous to occupy the middle of lane 3 for 100m? I have a dodgy section on a 50 limit which splits into 2 lanes. Have no end of idiots trying to overtake after I've been indicating and moving over for 10 secs plus. Once in the right turn lane though, I occupy it up to the lights for about 200m. Never had a problem doing that.
I don't use it any more but for a couple of weeks (thanks to a combination of Edinburgh tram works and other roadworks) it was the only practical option on my commute into work.
I don't think it is an issue for cars as they are pretty much going the same speed as each other, rather than a bike which is a bit slower.
The other issue was timing of the second lights, if I went early I caught the cars waiting at them and got through no probs, if I didn't there were cars behind me and clear road and a green light ahead. Not a happy place to be.