I think you have to factor in the cost of replacing a rear mech, as I see so many get totalled on MTB's - it's not the same on a road bike. It's a very expensive lesson. A colleague of mine runs GX 11 as he has smashed numerous mechs.
My SRAM 10 speed mech is wonderfully light, but the cage isn't anywhere near as strong as my old 90's XT's cage - so easy to bend the SRAM cage.
You just need to factor in that wonderful mech is going to be a very expensive consumable.
I wonder how they will hold up to wet Scottish winters and jet washing
The CX guys seem to cope ok.
I’ve been riding mtbs since 1992. I’ve broken a grand total of one rear mech in that time. I think I’ve seen maybe four or five on friends bikes too. I think I’ll take the risk.
Bottom line is I won’t be scrimping and saving to buy this so if a rear mech does beak I can afford to replace it. If you can’t afford it, no worries, just wait for the cheaper version or don’t bother. Don’t hate me because I’ve got no kids and can afford to waste money on bikes though.
I've just noticed something pretty concerning regarding the prices. In a couple of the reviews they mention there's $600 difference in prices between mechanical XX1 and AXS XX1. Which is correct.
So, Eagle AXS is $2000 for the XX1 version or $1900 for XO1, Taken from the SRAM website.
GBP prices in all the reviews I've seen are £1950 for XX1 and £1900 for XO1.
$1900 or £1900. For XO1 AXS. Hmm..... Suspicious me is suspicious.
Going back to the original XX1/XO1 launch, the groupset prices were:
XX1 $1417 £1173 - GBP price 82.7% of the USD price
XO1 $1193 £1005 - GBP price 84.2% of the USD price
Yet, XO1 AXS GBP price is exactly the same as the USD price. :/
It should be about £1580-£1600 based on an 83.5% ratio. Exchange rates are 0.03 different than June 2016, so...
WTF SRAM?
Is this pre-Brexit price hikes?
By comparison, the Euro to USD prices are roughly the same - 107/113 euros more than the USD prices at the launch of the original XX1/XO1 and 100 euros more than the USD price for the new AXS groups, again with the exchange rate now within 0.02 of June 2016. So in fact, the Euro price is a bit lower than back in June 2016.
So, again... WTF?
Say, I've had an idea! Wouldn't it good if they run off the power from your e-bike, so you only had to charge one battery! I'll let SRAM know, thank me later!
edit: never mind
Keep in mind that uk prices include 20% sales tax (VAT) and US prices don’t include sales tax (up to 10% iirc)
Presumably that was the same in 2016 when Eagle first launched? In the UK, XO1 AXS is £900 more than standard XO1. In the US it's £550 ($707) more and in Europe £600 (694 euro) more.
So, again… WTF?
You ain't seen nothing yet. I advise that you stop comparing UK prices to world prices now…
Say, I’ve had an idea!
Wire less.
You ain’t seen nothing yet. I advise that you stop comparing UK prices to world prices now…
Oh I know we get a crap deal a lot of the time, hopefully there's be some decent discounts to bring the prices down to more reasonable levels. It'll be interesting when the individual component prices come out.
I think it's awesome and the sooner I get get rid of all cables except my brakes, the better. But, if it's £800 rrp for the mech & controller, they can do one. Needs to be £500-600rrp maximum for me to have any interest.
The dropper, although more expensive is easier to justify if it replaces 2 dropper posts at £250-£300 each.
Say, I’ve had an idea!
Wire less.
Never heard of inductive charging? Samsung & Apple shift high volume of units capable of it.
Yeah I guess you're right though actually LOL. Wireless, e-bikes, major paradigm incompatibility right there. Silly me.
Needs to be £500-600rrp maximum for me to have any interest.
And presumably a ‘decent discount’ (what would that be?) off that? Dream on.
And presumably a ‘decent discount’ (what would that be?) off that? Dream on.
Yeah, I can hope I suppose... Lol
Most components seem to get 10-20% off most of the time, seems pretty standard.
Lovely new stuff... great, love innovation.
Electronic shifting is a long way up the road for me, major trickle down required.
What I really don't get is the whole... '£700, £1000 even £500 on a derailleur and shifter is ok'.
How? I spend a lot of money on my biking but why oh why would it be a great idea to spend that kind of money on consumable, vulnerable parts that get battered.
Bought all 2 NX derailleurs when my second xo1 got battered, the first one has done 3000 miles of mtb, flops about like a dick in a top hat but still works thanks to much handy work with my adjustables.
That said, good luck to any that buy and enjoy.
Just been quoted 16,000 honky (around 1,700 GBP) for a full set to be installed now from my local LBS, shifter an rear mech only purchases not available at the moment.
Wireless is the future and for me, I reckon thats around 3 years in the future, Im usually an early adopter but I think that this is a little rich even for me.
€1250 for the XO1 rear mech, controller, battery and charger.
[url] https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-X01-Eagle-AXS-Essential-Kit-1x12_1 [/url]
So about £1200 rrp then.
Yeah, **** that.
Never heard of inductive charging?
I may well have. I might even have an understanding about the limitations, especially as regards proximity, of the currently available applications of it.
The R2 guys must be buying the full groupset and splitting it themselves though. Rather than that being the official pricing from SRAM.
Yeah, possibly/hopefully.
If that is the official price hopefully the trickle-down to GX eagle happens fairly quick, although Di2 never made it to SLX so there's a chance AXS may stay XO1/XX1 only. SRAM would be foolish to do that though.
In fairness, comparing to non-electronic M9100, XX1 and X01 USD pricing, it looks like AXS is something like $350ish premium on what is already an expensive groupset. I can’t imagine many pay $1500+ for a groupset either, but for those who do maybe this isn’t too large a pill. The M9100vsX01 pricing in particular is near identical. I’d guess the Di2 XTR 12sp when it launches wont be far off this price.
Looking at actual street prices of M8000 Di2 (CRC have full brake and crank groups in the £800’s) I’d expect we’ll be seeing this get to the more realistic sorts of pricing that non serious racers might consider in a model cycle or two, say 2021...
Overall it does look blinding. I particularly like the way they’ve eliminated the Di2 system battery and associated cables.
Di2 XTR 12sp
it's never even been mentioned has it? wasn't part of the M9100 launch
You can get XT Di2 upgrade kit for £500, but the faff finding somewhere for the batter, and all the wires... no thanks. Sram's version is just so much easier and cleaner to install.
Di2 XT upgrade kit is £975 RRP yet £500 actual price.
@stewartc .. just give Jacky the cash so I don’t have to 😁 then I can try yours
it’s never even been mentioned has it? wasn’t part of the M9100 launch
According to bicycling it’s due sometime mid 2019 although since Shimano seem to be having delivery troubles post fire it may be delayed a little...
it's still chain and derailleur. so not an advance just a refinement.
so, on this basis, its a novel, but expensive tech from a company who have struggled with manufacturing engineering, QC and dubious warranty.
in conclusion, xt di2.
out.
I’m sure I read somewhere that XTR and XT are made in a different manufacturing plant to the lower groupsets and Shimano didn’t want to/it was too costly to produce lower end Di2 there which is why they only offer it in those groups.
Whether SRAM will be able to I don’t know but I’d expect that while they may be able to make it cheaper, at most they will offer one tier lower simply too keep it ‘aspirational’.
company who have struggled with manufacturing engineering, QC and dubious warranty.
What? I get that lots of folk have had issues with reverbs (I haven’t, with the 7 I’ve owned), but when was the warranty ever in question?
An alternative view - https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=127974
when was the warranty ever in question?
every time they try and get out of providing it? they are pretty shady.
**** me there’s some cheery souls on there. ‘I only run 8 speed as 7 speed is hard to get hold of’ was a highlight for me.
every time they try and get out of providing it? they are pretty shady
Just because something is broken doesn’t mean it’s a warranty issue. I’ve sent 3 things into them for sevice (that I was happy to pay to fix) that were replaced under warranty. One was a second hand fork.
It's equally as valid as 'It's new so it must be better.'
I particularly liked....
Buyers of black-box land-fill fodder are worse than naive; they're dupes become complicit in the ongoing neolib consumerist scam and planet-despoliation. Fashion victims. Bauble-addicted, glamour-fooled folk defined only by what they own.
Buyers of such stuff are not "making personal buying decisions". The decision was made by those who have built the consumerist hegemony fold that various sheep-people feel obliged to get driven into by advertising-collies. Sheep make decisions about running for the fold in only the most dilute sense of decision-making. The advert-collies know better.
Still, we all like the myth of free will, eh!? The alternative view is, I admit, depressing, since one way or another we are all sheep. I would 'fess up my own herd behaviours but what would you think!? The shame!!:-)
I wouldn't go that far, but I agree with the principle. 🙂
Wow, there’s some serious negativity here.
The only real innovation here is making an electronic shift mechanism wirefree. Shimano (and SRAM) have proved for years that this stuff works although admittedly only Shimano have demonstrated it via retail on MTBs. Making it wirefree shouldn’t be surprising either, Bluetooth has to be 20 years old now. If anything it’s more a surprise that Shimano didn’t do this earlier.
Cost? Yep it’s expensive. So is XTR and the ‘base’ XX1 group and so will be wireless XTR if/when it happens. Di2 XT gives a general idea where SRAM will go when it moves this to its lower groups. Let’s be completely honest about the ‘how much!!!’, XX1/XTR aren’t priced as affordable groups for everyone. They’re priced and specified as best of breed, but the lower and more affordable groups also work well - the top end offers a mix of nicer looks and features for the ‘marginal gains’ crowd happy to throw money at race bikes. That’s driving development of cool stuff that ends up in cheaper groups in a few years so it’s a bit odd anyone really being against that, too.
I’m not sure this will move too far down the tree although SRAM and Shimano ranges aren’t directly comparable as GX kind of covers SLX and XT at the same time. I could see GX getting this if only to annoy Shimano although I’m not sure it would sell well. Based on US, a brakeless GX group is something like $550 at ‘list price’. Looking at the XX1 prices it seems there’s something like a $400 dollar premium for wireless to be added to existing XX1. I can’t see GX selling at $1000... On the other hand, maybe the premium will become lower as the tech becomes more common. There’s a huge difference between making a premium group more expensive with a desirable new feature and making the ‘everyman’ group as expensive as the premium stuff though. Much the same applies to the dropper, official Reverb prices are nowhere near what most people pay. Add 3-400 bucks on top of list and you get to the wireless Reverb price. Expect cheaper prices later this year, I think but this stuff is never going to be ‘cheap cheap’.
Wow, there’s some serious negativity here.
I can't find the thread but I'm willing to bet a lot of the comments when Eagle xx1/xo1 was released are exactly the same as in this thread:
"wow, what a rip off, I'll stick to my 2x10 with more range"
"no-one needs a 50t cog, what a waste"
Etc etc.
And a couple of years down the line, how many people are running Eagle on their bikes? A lot.
I really do hope sram bring axs to gx and even nx level in the near future as there's a gap in the market that di2 hasn't been able to fill.
I'm all for advancement in tech in mtb, if companies weren't making this sort of progress we'd all still be riding 21 gear, v-braked, 70 degree head angle, 100mm travel bikes 🙂
I’m all for advancement in tech in mtb,
I'm not against it but I do believe the best bike is one that rides well and is durable at minimum cost and complexity. On that basis I don't see this as real progress unless you're a racer needing split-second advantages, otherwise it's just technology applied to a leisure product.
Perfection is achieved when there's nothing less to take away, etc - and yes that could apply to cables : ) Simple functional perfection, aesthetic perfection, faff-free ride perfection ... take your pick and justify or reject as you will. The resistance to anything like this is usually just the challenge it presents to current perception of good/best/what you've signed up to/etc.
This was BikeRadar in an objective aberration, summing up ‘value’ for M8050 Di2 in 2017- it seem fair enough and mostly applies here, too.
Is marginally better shifting worth the investment?
The cable-actuated XT drivetrain costs a fraction of its electronic sibling — you can outfit three bikes with mechanical XT drivetrains for the price of the complete XT Di2 group.
Considering the steep price tag along with the fact that SRAM offers top-end 1x12 groups in XX1 and XO1 Eagle with more range and a very budget-friendly 1x12 GX Eagle group, it’s hard to make the case that XT Di2 is worth the price.
Arguably, the only configuration where XT Di2 might have a competitive advantage over SRAM and aftermarket players is when run as a 2x11 system with Synchro Shift.
I agree with that article in that the only reason I'd seriously consider di2 is on a 2x system, and Eagle has all but killed the 2x for anyone buying a new bike. It just so happened that di2 came out at the same time that 2x was being killed off.
The biggest thing that AXS has over di2 is the ease of upgrade. Buy a derailleur and controller, remove the cables and bolt on the new stuff. If you want to do the same with di2 you've got to find somewhere for the battery, change your stem and bar, and then route the tiny breakable wires along the bike. I'm not surprised it didn't take off unless it was fitted to a bike as an oem part.
Everything is an incremental upgrade these days, but you add them all up and they amount to big changes. I'll say thank you to the ones who do buy the new, shiny, mega expensive kit as without them it would never trickle down to the masses. Once Sram have recouped some of their R&D costs from the early adopters I'm sure they'll release this at GX level at a 'slightly' more affordable price. It's never going to be cheap though, but as per my thread a little while ago "Gear/Dropper cables – why is there nothing better yet?" the wireless revolution can't come quick enough, it just needs to be a little more affordable 🙂
I know this isn't eagle but it's interesting that the etap axs has gone "smaller" when the likes of ceramic speed suggest the marginal gains for road drivetrains is at the larger end of the spectrum front and back. Kind of suggests they are waving the white flag with pro teams amd going straight for the mamil jugular 😉
Interestingly, due to its cross-compatibility, AXS allows front derailleur and synchro-shift just like Di2. It’s more likely to interest people running road-based groups, but if you really wanted to and there was a road model front AXS derailleur to fit your MTB this would work by the look of things.
Totally agree that simply in user/install friendliness this has a massive edge over Di2. I can’t see an $800-$1000 GX group catching on though. If AXS is going to come downrange, SRAM are either going to need to make the wireless premium far smaller or do something else. I’m expecting a return for X1 pitched between GX and X01...
The only guy I know who has ridden AXS said he actually dislikes having to ride regular eagle kit until AXS is available for his bike next month. So while I’m as pessimistic as the next man with gear cables that work ‘fine’ I think it is one of those try it before judging things.
The cost on the other hand...
I suspect for someone who cares about shift quality it’s going to be something that shouldn’t be tried unless you’re prepared to spring for it... (meaning electronic shifting in general)
According to bicycling it’s due sometime mid 2019 although since Shimano seem to be having delivery troubles post fire it may be delayed a little…
that article is from May last year, we are now Feb the following year, not a sniff, Scylence has been canned, the cranks have issues, no wide hub cancelled as well as the 11 speed cassette,
SRAM manufactured everything, embargo, press release and the stuff was available, today for shipping,
the stuff was available, today for shipping,
...ish. Delivery dates showing as 11/3 for xx1, 25/3 for xo1.
i forgot we was on about the MTB stuff, road though, available
Not really interested in a Shimano vs SRAM bash. I have my preference as I suspect most do, and I buy accordingly. For me, that’s SRAM for MTB and Shimano for drops and brakes from neither.
For sure, Shimano have canned the Scylence hub, the 11sp cassette and hub and had big delays even with the crank for 9100, but I’d be amazed if they just walked away from Di2 and abandoned it. It’s coming, just probably a model year late the way things are going.
that were replaced under warranty. One was a second hand fork.
ooo, an anecdote. how about this? road brakes bought from a dealer in a sealed box apparently had the wrong fluid in causing them to fail, and that's the consumers fault.
The rrp is 2k (euros) for the x01, and for the normal x01 eagle is 1400 euros.
x01 eagle you can get for 1100, if the axs eagle actually sells for around 16-1700 than I will probably go for it, 500 more is a lot, but as a additional % on the bike I am building, I can absorb the extra.
I think this will be the clincher for most people who are prepared to consider top end groups, where the actual price ends up.
SRAM doesn’t tend to get as deeply discounted as Shimano but it’s not unreasonable to expect the price to not be as high as RRP, certainly once the first rush of buyers have been served and there’s product sitting around looking for buyers.
Certainly considering getting the X0. I love the look of the X1 with the rainbow bling, but as theyre aimed for XC i would be terrified of how fragile they might be. My LBS will already knock off a couple of hundred quid, as i'm a long term customer with them. The only real problem i have is that i'll need a new wheelset for the XD freehub...what i REALLY want is a set of Santa Cruz Reserves, but that makes it a bit too rich for my liking (another £1600), i suspect a set of JRA Traildog Carbon wheels will be plenty good enough as theyre nearly half the price of the Reserves.
Any chance anyone knows where just the shifter/der are available or indeed when they are expected as seperates??
The rear mech and shifter prices haven't been released yet so they're unlikely to be available anywhere officially.
Keep an eye on here https://launch.sram.com/en/axs/eagle-axs---product-listing-page
Still a bit off I think the full groups are due towards the end of March so I would imagine the mech/control unit will follow in April/May time. Pricing wise you're looking north of £900 for the mech/unit/battery and charger judging on the cost of the full groups minus the bits you can buy currently.
I'm interested to see how much easier it would make a full frame swap. Presuming rear brake cable is external and if you had two frames fitted with headset and BB that could accept all the components, I imagine a competent mechanic could do a full swap in no time!
Still a bit off I think the full groups are due towards the end of March
Mines arriving either next week or week after. I reckon the separates will be anounced once that first drop/batch/whatever has shipped and is in stock with retailers. To stop them splitting groups down themselves.
Similar to XTR Di2, if I could have it on a dedicated race bike, that would be fine. The thought of another battery (or set of batteries) to charge puts me off anything electronic though for day to day use.
Could the 'secret' paddle be used to control the Reverb? And the standard paddle be used to move up and down the cassette?
I'm late to this announcement but I'm very tempted by the shifter/control unit and the seatpost - not entirely sure why though as the prices are ridiculous, but perhaps in 6 months time when I've managed to save a bit of cash, the prices might be a bit lower and more 'manageable'...
Yep. Thats what I'm planning to do. Had hoped it all would have arrived by now, but the shop shuts on a weds, fingers crossed for by the end of the week.
Could the ‘secret’ paddle be used to control the Reverb? And the standard paddle be used to move up and down the cassette?
As can be seen in this article, there are only two physical switches; the 'secret' paddle is just an extension of the thumb paddle, so it cannot be mapped to anything else than whatever the downshift function is mapped to.
You can’t control everything from one control unit no, but as you’d have the reverb remote, you use that for up/down, and the remaining one on the RH unit for the other option. Then the stealth button/what would be the up/harder shift button for the reverb.
It does look like the obvious settings would be up/down cassette with right hand and dropper control on left. I just wondered if you could get away with just the right hand controller for both. If not, it isn't a deal breaker - the price is for me just now but hopefully that will drop and appear to be more acceptable.
I just wondered if you could get away with just the right hand controller for both.
Then no. But seeing as the reverb comes with the controller anyway, you may as well use it. im going to use it for shifting, haven't decided which way yet, but might go back to the normal way, until I can set up all my mtbs like that (which may be a while...)
Another thought...will the Shockwiz be integrated into the AXS app?
Not that I can see, but it's hardly a big leap for further down the line. Not sure if other Quark stuff is, like the Etap power meter etc
Apparently some is. Again not an issue but if you are using all the kit then it does make sense to have it all done via a single app.
It’s heeeerrrreeeeee.... (well, at the LBS)
Follow Garage Bikes on Insta/FB as they’re, I quote, ‘gonna social media the shit out of it’
I'm going to have my lunch first...
Must....reeesist....
Got my reverb yesterday, and took me a total of about 10 mins to fit last night. All very simple! Got it from biketart at a £50 discount..
Ffs, Mines been on back order with zyrofishers since release...
Love the biketart guys, they've got £130 off the X01 AXS grouset too if anyone fancies splashing the cash 😀
Do you think the system could work with 11-speed? Would mean I'd just need controller, charger and rear mech.
(hahaha...like I can afford that!)
Had it on for a few weeks now. Threw it on before the first ride and it wasn't bad, one gear was hanging up. Then I red the instructions and indexed it and its spot on now. Shifter is really ergonomic, needed to rotate it round a lot more than normal but he trigger fits in my thumb perfectly, slight movement up and down and I can shift, its just really next level!
Do you think the system could work with 11-speed? Would mean I’d just need controller, charger and rear mech.
(hahaha…like I can afford that!)
100% doesn’t. But it will work with any 12speed cassette
I do find it sad that cycling has got so mad expensive
I think the good news is that their is nothing fundamentaly expensive about wireless shifting. So when it reaches Deore or SLX maybe....
I agree AXS is madly expensive, and I’m sure it will be a long time before wireless shifting trickles down. But equally look at 12 speed - NX/ GX stuff is perfectly good and very reasonably priced...
I’m hoping that shimano start cutting the prices of the cablingjunctions//batteries of the di2 stuff as imho that’s the hidden expense, the wireless bit of axs is a bit overrated as you have the hassle of putting the brake lines thru the bike anyway.
the reverb AXS takes some getting used to after using a cable operated one for some weird reason. well obviously took about 3 situations in reality. nice and smooth & absolutely no lag
I do find it sad that cycling has got so mad expensive
There's always been silly pricey things at the top of the range, the prices drop and the features always filter down to cheaper groups over time.
For context the Deore/NX groups you can buy at the affordable end of the scale are probably well beyond anyone's wildest dreams 20 odd years ago.
I was AXS curious, but to be honest given the fragility of cable driven eagle I would be difficult to convince now. Having something so fragile so low to the ground with such an expensive replacement price puts me right off. I wish Shimano and SRAM would start investing properly into gear box systems.
For those with the AXS reverb, are the dimensions the same as a regular reverb? Rails to bottom of collar being the most important.
Very tempted by one as a single dropper to swap between 2 different bikes, if the dimensions are the same as the hydraulic reverb it means I'll have 20mm post showing maximum on one of the bikes, which is close but doable. I'm willing to bet the rail/head height is more though...
Edit: just re-watched one of the launch videos and they're the same stack height as the standard reverb. Woo!
Does anybody know ridewill.it - they are showing full x01 AXS groupsets for under £1300 shipped...?!