I'm based in West London (Ealing), but spend a lot of time also in Regents Park as I work in Chelesea, Richmond Park for quick spins and out to Windsor etc on the weekends
Even if it doesn't ever see a race track - it's a new bike.
Admit it, you're not [i]really[/i] serious about racing - you just want an excuse to splash the cash on "race level bling" 😆
Move to Yorkshire lad and get up some hills, no point training on the flat.
bomberman - Member
Admit it, you're not really serious about racing - you just want an excuse to splash the cash on "race level bling"Move to Yorkshire lad and get up some hills, no point training on the flat.
Haha no I'm genuinely wanting to try it, like I said I got the buzz from just a closed road crit sportive (eisberg 2016 before the TOB). I'm imagining it to be become very addictive.
My folks live up near Rivington so I get some hills in occasionally. 😆
It is VERY addictive
@matts I think my Richmond & Regent's Park training will come into its own there!
True. I've given up training in Regent's in the summer. It's completely mental these days.
And you can get pretty far with a bike weighing 8Kg. My race bike weighs 7.7. The gains you can make in fitness at that level utterly dwarf the minor differences in bike performance by orders of magnitude.
matts - Member
True. I've given up training in Regent's in the summer. It's completely mental these days.And you can get pretty far with a bike weighing 8Kg. My race bike weighs 7.7. The gains you can make in fitness at that level utterly dwarf the minor differences in bike performance by orders of magnitude.
Yep, there's quite a lot of egos/fashion statements treating it as a race track. Quite annoying when you're sat at the front of the lights and folk just come and sit in front of you...I've given up caring though, it's much safer than trying to cycle on the shared paths around Hyde park or the bus lanes around Paddington/Shepards bush! Also no one bothers with the inner circle so that's a nice retreat sometimes.
Yeah, I'm thinking this bike will be the final one for a while as there's nothing more to improve really, not within the confines of my reality where deposit savings outweigh the need for dura ace ha! I really will know what my limitations are on it as I cannot blame the tool from then on 😆
Did you onow that 90% of drag comes from your body and only 10% from the bike? So your body position could make a huge difference compared to the 500g difference between 105 and dura ace. Having a lighter bike will only help you on hills and sprints - places where you accelerate. I have an old road bike with some sensible upgrades (wheels, tyres, brakes, chainset) and i'm within a couple of seconds off the fastest guy i ride with and he has all the carbon bling but hes been road riding for 3 years to my 7 months so hes just generally fitter.
You could train on heavier wheels or with a chainlock or a couple of bricks wrapped in a towel in your backpack if you're serious about it and then on race day you can instantly shed 2 kilos without spending anything!
I think I kind of already do that! Most of my weekday training is done on my chinese carbon cx commuter (8.75kg) with a backpack full of rubbish 4/5kg (laptop/lock/note pad etc) - usually laps around Richmond or Regents park followed by a start/stop/dodge all the way back to Ealing.
I know what you're saying about bikes. My only high speed experience with others, bar accidental group riding in Regents, is this: https://www.strava.com/activities/708327207 which I did on my chinese cx bike. I didn't have any issues keeping up with people on some fancy looking bikes but it was only a short ride.
It must be very hard to train somewhere so flat and densely populated
My only high speed experience with others, bar accidental group riding in Regents, is this: https://www.strava.com/activities/708327207
You may get a bit of a shock even in 4th cat races - even a slow one is going to be 6-7 km/h quicker than that for twice as long.
My local chaingang does about [url= https://www.strava.com/activities/638788569/segments/15609370597 ]37-39 km/h for 60km[/url] on rolling terrain and that is training! (plenty quick enough for me, I'm delighted if I hang on)
Just run what brung and get used to the intensity for a while!
You think you are fit until you start racing.. Then realise how far you have to up your game and how much effort it really takes. I've just started CX racing and it's unbelievably tough. The hard part is knowing when to really push and when to sit up a little bit and try and grab a bit of recovery. Treat your 1st season as a learning curve and just use it to find your strengths and weaknesses.
bomberman
It must be very hard to train somewhere so flat and densely populated
You get fairly used to clipping in and out quickly between lights 😆
ianpv
You may get a bit of a shock even in 4th cat races - even a slow one is going to be 6-7 km/h quicker than that for twice as long.
My local chaingang does about 37-39 km/h for 60km on rolling terrain and that is training! (plenty quick enough for me, I'm delighted if I hang on)Just run what brung and get used to the intensity for a while!
Yeah I imagine I'm going to get spat out of the back to be frank. Solo on a milk pond flat route I can do 19-20mph over 52 miles including being caught up in traffic on the way back into London ( https://www.strava.com/activities/621383879) - but definitely up for joining some chain gangs to get used to it properly.
cloudnine
You think you are fit until you start racing.. Then realise how far you have to up your game and how much effort it really takes. I've just started CX racing and it's unbelievably tough. The hard part is knowing when to really push and when to sit up a little bit and try and grab a bit of recovery. Treat your 1st season as a learning curve and just use it to find your strengths and weaknesses.
Not considered CX racing before, it sounds fun too. But yeah first season is just going to be turn up and hope I don't cause/get involved in a crash. 😆
Just a quicky on this for a mate.
Can you run Discs in the Hillingdon winter series ?
Wee update to this.
I had a holiday in NYC and bar a run around central park and a soul cycle session I didn't do anything intensive. Result is my HR is back to resting at 47bpm.
The bike is built (bar me cutting the chain too short and the stem needs cutting once happy with the height):
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
(yep the decking still hasn't been done).
I bought a Tacx Vortex smart trainer for over winter to structure my training, along with commuting every day I can and weekend cycles. I've just done my first FTP test on Zwift, it nearly killed me:
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
338W over 20 mins, which is calculating at 4.59kg/w (I'm 6ft 70kg)? Which I'm not suggesting is accurate in the real world, but in Zwift using the same equipment I should see an improvement?
But this is a good basis to start the training. Zwift is also going to allow me to do some virtual racing, so hopefully get me ready ish for the randomness of sprints?
Next steps:
- Join a club
- Get a british cycling licence
I wouldn't worry too much about watts per kilo, bike weights etc, it's 4th cat racing.
Try not to overthink it, your first few races will tell you far more about where you are and what you need.
Get your license sorted, turn up and enjoy it 🙂
No discs in the Imperial Winter Series. OP you have signed up I hope. First race is December 3rd. I I always a sell out. And with 4.6 watts/kg, I expect you to attack on the third lap and stay away. You should be a third cat in no time
Thanks @haze the calcs were mainly for Zwift racing haha.
Licence will be bought 1st Dec.
I haven't @tired as I haven't joined a club/got a licence yet. I've been out in NYC, got engaged there, came back bought a ring (proposed with a temp one) and hired a wedding venue since last time I posted on this thread. 🙂
Building up the courage too 😳
Our boys and girls are expecting you Nathb, they are drilling it regularly around Regents now 😉
Yeah I couldn't figure if you meant am or pm.
I've only just this week got my commuter up and running again, will aim to join you guys next week. 🙂
Just to echo what a few people have said. Let's not overthink it. The Felt will be fine to race on but if you want a new bike then go for it.
I'd also echo that the Hillingdon series is good especially starting out since you can get dropped, lapped and get back on the bunch (no contesting the finish though!) which is good for moral.
Finally until you have tried racing you never really know whether you have the fitness or aptitude for it, or even the desire to hurt yourselve since if you want to get better at racing it will hurt. With higher cat racing it just hurts at a faster pace.
As @TiRed says. If 4.6W/Kg is accurate, just pick hilly courses and drop the bunch on a hill when the time feels right.
And with 4.6 watts/kg, I expect you to attack on the third lap and stay away.
Depends on the course, and there's usually enough people willing to work to bring it back for the sprint. Even with that sort of power (and assuming you can make that in a good aero position) it's still very hard to hold off a determined pack in a crit.
Practice your sprinting.
@tonyg2003 - Yeah I went ahead and got one ^^. Still have the Felt though. Yeah, I'm imagining it to be similar to the FTP test but worse.
@fifeandy I'm not 100% sure that figure is correct, I'm rather tempted to hire a powermeter to see how it compares to the Vortex's power. Just to see if there is any progression in my cycling over the next few months.
@mrblobby - I did the FTP test on a mixture of the drops/usual hand position. Tried to avoid sitting upright apart from drinking/towel.
Am I right in assuming that if Hillingdon doesn't have an event on, I can just rock up and use the circuit? I'd like to get used to it before signing up to any future events there.
Yes it takes a very determined person to simulate a racing situation on a turbo especially an FTP, since it doesn't replicate the repetitive efforts required. I didn't race last year (too damn unfit! - but trying to get ready for next year) but I spent years thinking that every winter my max HR was going down (even on the winter chaingangs) then I'd do my first race I find myself back to my max HR!
I must admit, Zwift FTP test was okay (as far as they go). Kept me distracted enough and something to focus on by having virtual cyclists around to try and overtake. What I wasn't expecting was a dramatic change in resistance from the warm up to the start of the test, I wasted a lot of energy there ( https://www.strava.com/activities/784603519/analysis/1200/2404)
Aim to redo it at the beginning of January.
HR is a strange one!
Yes you can just head to Minets Park and ride the circuit. You want to ride anticlockwise for the winter series (other series go clockwise). For a benchmark, a good training pace would be sub 2:30 laps on your own. Watch out for riders coming in the opposite direction. Race pace will be 2:00-2:30. Not seen many sub two minute laps in fourth cat races. Races will be about 25 laps.
EDIT Saturday mornings are always booked out. Some Sundays afternoons are taken with coaching. Weekdays are free. There is no lighting and sunset is 4:20 pm
4.6W/kg has never been enough for me, hilly or not 😳
I've entered and am very excited! I wish I had 4.6w/kg at my disposal though 🙁
Team STW! Have fun guys 🙂
I dabbled a little in circuit racing last year for a bit of variety. First race was a 34 round Thruxton and spent most of the time trying to work out wtf was going on 🙂 With decent power you'll be ok as you likely won't struggle with the pace but you'll probably expend a lot of effort needlessly. Good racecraft and a well practiced sprint more likely to get you points than a lot of watts.
Going to purchase my licence/membership on Friday, assuming I can add a club at a later date.
Should I just go for the Gold one?
Going to try and pop down to a race at Hillingdon this year - first just to watch & see how things happen. 🙂
I did think you needed to be a member of an affiliated club to get a race licence. Worth checking.
Going to try and pop down to a race at Hillingdon this year - first just to watch & see how things happen.
No better way to do this than taking part 🙂
I did think you needed to be a member of an affiliated club to get a race licence. Worth checking.
You don't - you can be a private member (ie not a member of any club) and get a race licence. Silver + race licence is the normal option but you can see the difference between Gold and Silver here:
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership/race
You can buy a 2017 racing licence from 1st December
The Imperial Winter Series races at Hillingdon are all online now with entry through RiderHQ - they sell out quickly.
[url= https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/156235/Imperial-Winter-Series-(Hillingdon)-2016/17-Round-1-of-9 ]Round 1[/url]
Have a read through that 4th Cat racing thread that was linked to a page or so ago, that's got some very useful info in it. Also well worth having a look through some of the British Cycling Racesmart videos:
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/skills/road-racesmart
Good luck, have fun - don't overthink it!
I'm nervous of wiping out the field @mrblobby 😆
I'm also working on the club bit, hopefully will be gate crashing one this weekend.
Thanks @crazylegs - I'll go for the silver then. It's nice to know I don't have to join a club too if they don't seem for me.
Do you still get CRC discount with that too? It's only listed on the gold one.
You'll only end up wishing you were out there riding!
Silver is enough unless you want the additional benefits.
Cool thanks!
Yeah I'm overthinking it all... I'm even overthinking zwift racing 🙄
I did think you needed to be a member of an affiliated club to get a race licence
Not true. Anyone can race as a "Private Member". You can even buy a day license to "have a go at racing". Silver is fine.
Although anyone can turn up and wipe out the field (it has happened!), I'd recommend some coaching in group riding and racing. Premier Coaching offer some sessions at Hillingdon specifically. Club riding is a good introduction and actually a lot more structured than a race.
Will see if I'm allowed to ride the 4ths as a rolling com (can't coach on the wheel). I'm down for all the E123 races.
You can't gate crash our club, you are welcome of course, but first rides are in the beginner's group to learn the ropes. Other clubs will probably be similar.
How do you buy a day license? I have bronze so can race with no points right? (As if 😉 )
you pay on the day
Perfect thanks. Excited but nervous. Gonna be an eye opener I think.
Where are you racing @crosshair
Thanks @Tired, I was going to message a couple of clubs this week to see if I can join their beginner rides out over the next couple of weeks. I'm hopefully going to head over to Hillingdon this Saturday to watch too!
Hillingdon.
As I understand it , from the fast boys at my road club , its as much about position in the pack,watching the breaks , power conservation ( winding your neck in )and avoiding trouble as it is w/kg.
Can you ride in a fast paced group at 18 - 20 mph , and do a through and off safely ?
That would be a sensible start point .
I read up on racing lots and lots before having a go and I hadn't joined a club much before my first race either. You "just" need to remember not to overlap wheels, don't weave, hold your line in corners and, similarly, shout out at anyone riding dangerously or not holding their line etc. You'll be lucky if anyone does through and off in a 4th cat road race [whether they have done it on a club run or not, who knows?!] 🙄
No rush to start scoring points, that will happen soon enough but for now just sit in and watch the guys who know what they're doing, you'll soon get it.
Be smooth and calm.
Don't be the tit who tries to out-brake everyone into every corner.
crosshair -
Hillingdon.
Without sounding stalkery add me on strava - I'll try keep an eye out for you.
singletrackmind -
As I understand it , from the fast boys at my road club , its as much about position in the pack,watching the breaks , power conservation ( winding your neck in )and avoiding trouble as it is w/kg.
Can you ride in a fast paced group at 18 - 20 mph , and do a through and off safely ?
That would be a sensible start point .
I've never ridden in a fast paced group bar the Eisberg cycle a few pages back and regents park (which can get very busy) so I've never done the through and off - but I can do 52 miles solo @19-20mph (cringe sorry!) and get the principle of it. But yes experience like that would help.
mtbtomo
I read up on racing lots and lots before having a go and I hadn't joined a club much before my first race either. You "just" need to remember not to overlap wheels, don't weave, hold your line in corners and, similarly, shout out at anyone riding dangerously or not holding their line etc. You'll be lucky if anyone does through and off in a 4th cat road race [whether they have done it on a club run or not, who knows?!]
Haze
No rush to start scoring points, that will happen soon enough but for now just sit in and watch the guys who know what they're doing, you'll soon get it.Be smooth and calm.
Don't be the tit who tries to out-brake everyone into every corner.
Cheers for the advice guys!
Yeah pretty sure you won't be doing any through and off in your first 4th, unless you accidentally find yourself in a break then you'll learn quick enough!
Get yourself on some reliability rides over winter, usually Feb/March time. Much more likely to come across some co-operative riding with some good riders.
But for now no harm in dipping your toe in a few crits.
