My Orbea Rise came with a Maxxis Dissector up front and a Rekon out back . So far I haven’t had an issue but haven’t really rode it in the current slop as yet . I’ve got a nearly new Specialized Butcher going spare , I’m thinking of putting that on the front and the Dissector at the back , does that sound like a plan ? The Dissector is a WT version to fit the 30mm width Race Face rim just wondering if that will be an issue with the Butcher or am I overthinking as usual 🙄
I might just give it a few rides as is for now see how it goes , as long as the tyres don’t try and kill me like a Vittoria did once 🙄🙄🙄🙄
It's a plan, but a bad one. The Butcher on the front, in the slop, will kill you.
MaxxGrip Shorty and a DHRII.
Chuck the Dissector on the back, that’ll definitely be an improvement. Butcher will also be an improvement over what you have, but you’ll really want something a bit more aggressive (Shorty etc) for sloppy stuff
The butcher is like a dhf. Not brilliant in the slop but better than a dissector on the front.
Or spend £100+ on the optimum combo right now.
Yak , so what’s your optimum ?
MaxxGrip Shorty and a DHRII.
This ^^^^^
You could stick the butcher on the back and get a Specialized hillbilly for the front if you like matching brands. The hillbilly is bloody ace in the slop - *I’ve run the 27.5” and 29” version of the hillbilly and the 29er one is a better all rounder - it quite similar to a magic Mary - but cheaper. The 29er version have is the T7 2.6” one.
If it’s a blank canvas and you want matching brands I’d either go magic Mary / big Betty or maxxis shorty / dhr2 probably. Although the Wild Enduro front is good for slop - the back not so good.
MaxxGrip Shorty and a DHRII
Came here to say this too, got there by trial and error but good to see others reaching same conclusion.
In order of wetness:
Dry: DHR II front and rear.
Damp and greasy: DHR II front and rear.
Wet: DHR II front and rear.
Mega-Slop: DHR II front and rear.
Penmachno: DHR II front and rear.
Optimum for me is wild enduros. But the rear is a bit slidy. Sometimes run a butcher t9 on the rear.
Probably depends on your slop... Mine's sandy slop.
Bontrager Muds. R.I.P
They could call them Gravel Mud and they would be bang on trend.
The Magic Mary and the old Hillbilly are both great over the winter. However, I’ve just got one of the new Hillbilly T9 which is a much stickier compound and has bigger side knobs to handle drier corners without folding/flexing too much - mounted it a few days ago and have yet to try it. But it looks and feels like it’s going to be amazing - like the old Baron 26 but scaled up to a true 2.4” with massive knobs and really slow rebound rubber.
DHR II out back and Shorty up front serves me pretty well.
Shorty or Hillbilly front, DHR or Butcher rear.
A new tyre with wide spacing will generally feel great in thick/soft mud. Riding style and bike setup will also go a long way.
Dissector has poor traction in slop, it won't dig in and will just spin out. Keep it for summer.
I run a Conti Der Baron Projekt front, Maxxis DHR2 rear. Former is now superseded by the Argotal. My next combo will probably be that and a Conti Kryptotal Re.
2.4" Magic Mary Ulta Soft up front
2.4" Magic Mary Soft out back.
Could swap the rear Magic Mary for a Big Betty if your trails aren't crazy soft all the time and you want a little more drive/braking grip at the expense of a tiny amount of cornering predictability...
If it's really filthy then swap the front Mary out for a Dirty Dan... But it's got to be pretty much biblical conditions and chairlift assisted riding only for a Dirty Dan to come into its own!
Another vote for the Shorty/DHR2 Combe here.
I used to be a MM fanboi (and it does have a wider use window than the Shorty), but when it gets proper sloppy the Shorty is , IMHO, superior.
The rise is an ebike isn’t it? If it is then get the spikyist things you can, either wet screams or dirty dans
Magic mary soft on the front maxxis shorty on the rear 👍🏻
My mate has got a hardly used Magic Mary I can have for £20 Butcher out back happy days 😎
Winner winner - give that a go and see how you find it. Will definitely have a lot more grip than your current setup.
Just fitted a Magic Mary soft super trail front and Big Betty soft super gravity rear before the weekend, rode forestry downhills yesterday, couldn't beleave the difference , first time gone for a "Winter" set up, loved it
Think the OP has some tyres now, but I have the Dissesctor on the rear of my bike and its not great now its wet and greasy, its being replaced with a DHR2 since the front tyre is Maxxis, got to match brands!
My preferred combo would be Magic Mary and Big Betty, but would also try a Hill Billy paired with a Cannibal on the back
I'm an all year round user of a front Magic Mary, but my new bike came fitted with Spesch Butcher T9 and though I have a MM sat waiting to be fitted, I've yet to see a reason to replace it. The rear Elimator T7 has been very good too, though it was definitely helped by adding a cushcore to stiffen up the sidewalls. The butcher definitely isn't as deep a tread as the MM or Shorty but seems like a solid option to me.
Related question... who has Shorty's and DHR's in stock for a price that doesn't cause full involuntary exhalation?
I run Conti Der Baron and Der Kaiser on my Rise. All year round and in all but the bioggest bog fests I have traction where most others dont.
I also run the newer Conti's on my hardtail and again, traction where most dont. They're not too draggy that they're horrible to pedal into summer either. I'm not one of those change tyres at the drop of a hat. When theyre on and sealing they stay on till they need replaceing so always go for a good enough all rounder.
It’s a plan, but a bad one. The Butcher on the front, in the slop, will kill you.
Had to laugh.
Stick the Butcher on the back OP, and I'd suggest a WTB Verdict high grip for the front.
Or a Shorty if you prefer a rounder profile tyre.
Related question… who has Shorty’s and DHR’s in stock for a price that doesn’t cause full involuntary exhalation?
Nowhere! Maxxis tax is definitely a thing compared to other tyres IMO
Thanks for all the suggestions folks , riding the Quantocks Thursday will make a decision after that . As I say up to now stock set up has been fine , willing to try MM but as it's only a half fat bike I'm conscious of the drag effect 🤔
willing to try MM but as it’s only a half fat bike I’m conscious of the drag effect 🤔
All 5'2" of mrsBeanZ copes fine with the MM on her levo SL .
Magic Mary is fine pedalling on a normal bike. If you have a motor then it’s really not an issue.
Shorty and DHR2 is superb. There'll be other combos about as good, maybe even better but this one definitely works.
(stickiest widest shorty you can find on the front- the extra width and stick is basically what takes it away from being a "mud" tyre and makes it so brilliant in mixed conditions)
Definitely worth looking at the new contis if you want something different, I've not tried mine yet though. Or if you're happy to lose some of the bad-conditions performance and gain some allrounderness then the magic mary is also fantastic, it just doesn't work quite as well when things get orrible.
Is 2.4" the optimum width?
Even for a hardtail?
I like my 2.6 butchers until it's really sloppy.
Then a shorty. 2.3 for less drag, 2.4 for unbelievable grip and drrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaagggggy days out.
It has to be really nasty before I'm prepared to pedal them about
and I’d suggest a WTB Verdict high grip for the front.
came her to say the same. I run a WTB Verdict Wet on my winter slop hardtail. Mucho Knobblio
How many millimetres of difference is there between a 2.3 and a 2.4 inch tyre? 2 or 3? I doubt that one is fast and sprightly and the other is a dragfest.
I’m reminded that I’m so old ( forum name gives it away 😬 ) the go to tyre was Tioga Factory XC at a tenner a pop ! Then the consensus was this time of year get them knobbly gurt buggers off and find something sub 2” wide to cut through the mud ! 😂😂😂
If I ever decided to off myself and wanted to do it doing something I enjoy, I'd stick some OEM Butchers on front and back, then ride a gnarly trail that you needed at least a little bit of grip to survive. Hateful pieces of s***
The Magic Mary and the old Hillbilly are both great over the winter. However, I’ve just got one of the new Hillbilly T9 which is a much stickier compound and has bigger side knobs to handle drier corners without folding/flexing too much – mounted it a few days ago and have yet to try it. But it looks and feels like it’s going to be amazing – like the old Baron 26 but scaled up to a true 2.4” with massive knobs and really slow rebound rubber.
Can you hurry up and ride it then report back! I've been considering fitting a used Hillybilly from the shelf to the front of my Levo SL but was putting it off as they feel quite slow on hardpack trails and I intend on visiting some trail centres over christmas, which the current Butcher will do better at. Really interested how the new sticky Hillbilly compares.
Views on the Butcher seem quite polarised here, I find it fine, seems like a decent all rounder.
Do people really fit these monster treaded tyres for trail centres?
I fancy getting some bigger treaded tyres for my Dave to try out but the cost alone is enough to put me off yet alone the weight and how slow they would roll.
This time of year I tend to ride 38mm Vittoria Terrano Wet tyres on my cross bike. I think I might doing it all wrong though. 😊
sharkattack
Full MemberHow many millimetres of difference is there between a 2.3 and a 2.4 inch tyre? 2 or 3? I doubt that one is fast and sprightly and the other is a dragfest.
It does depend a bit- like, the dhr2 2.3 and 2.4 are actually pretty different tyres. Likewise the shorty 2.3 and 2.5, you'd think it'd be "just .2 more" but when you actually ride them it's genuinely the sort of difference you'd expect from 2 different brands. I reckon the 2.3 Shorty maxxterra is more like the 2.35 magic mary soft than it is like the 2.5 shorty maxxgrip
Do people really fit these monster treaded tyres for trail centres?
Well that was my point and reason for not fitting a Hillbilly.. but my local trails do get claggy hence the interest for something that works better on hardpack aswell as clag.
sharkattack
Full MemberHow many millimetres of difference is there between a 2.3 and a 2.4 inch tyre? 2 or 3? I doubt that one is fast and sprightly and the other is a dragfest.
It's not always just the width though (nominal as they may be hence absolute differences might be larger than suggested at times)... It's often differences in the rubber compound, carcass construction, tread depth and the extra weight of the tyre can contribute to drag more than you'd think...
On the Hillbilly the older 650b version with gripton compound is epic in slippery off piste conditions but on hardpack it wobbles a bit when pushed hard in corners.
I’ve got the newer 29er version with T7 compound and it does a much better job on hardpack. I ran it from December last year through to maybe April ish when I stuck a Butcher T9 on. Didn’t like the butcher - it seemed to grip to a point then just give up. So I swapped that for a dhf for the summer.
The hillbilly isn’t back on yet as I’ve got a wild enduro on there right now which is doing a great job whilst rolling quicker than the hillbilly on hardpack.
Tyres above are
Hillbilly 2.6” gripton / grid 650b
Hillbilly 2.6” T7 / Grid Trail 29er
Butcher 2.3” T9 / Grid Trail 29er
DHF 2.5” 3c Maxx Terra / Exo 29er
Wild Enduro 2.4” Magi-X / 29er
“I’ve got the newer 29er version with T7 compound and it does a much better job on hardpack.”
I believe the T7 compound is the same as the Gripton compound, they just added some different stickiness versions of it with the T9 and T5.
This is the tread pattern of the Hillbilly over the last few years, up until the new version came out a few months ago:
This is the new one - side knobs are about twice the area so should be better at not squirming and gripping on hard stuff:
The new one is only available as a 2.4 but it’s pretty big - just measured it, it’s 61mm wide at the tread, same as the previous 2.6”. The casing is 59mm wide whilst the old 2.6” has a 61mm wide casing, so slightly higher volume. Both on 30mm rims, just did the measuring as I’m working from home / battling illness…
61mm is exactly 2.4” - so novel to get a tyre that’s the size it claims to be!
Tried a few over recent years and nothing has beaten a magic mary for me on the front yet.
Usually run a supertrail soft casing with an insert to get the pressures down.
Tried a hillbilly grid but that slipped like crazy on roots, didn't rate it at all. Also like a shorty (older variant not the shorty 2) and that was better in slop than a mary but worse on hardpack and maybe roots.
I recently tried a magi-x wild enduro on the front and whilst it is phenomally good in warmer temperatures, as its got colder recently the rubber seems to have firmed up alot and lost grip. In warmer weather it blew me away with how good it was in the wet but not when cold.
All these usually paired with a dhr2 on the back or maybe a second mary if really really sloppy (jan-feb time).
I'd be interested to try the T9 Hillbilly, but I'll need to hear a bit more positive feedback about the new compound before I give them any more of my money. It'd also help if they were about £25-30 again.
Enigmas - If you like the Mary and the Wild Enduro, you'd probably love the WTB Verdict high grip. It's like a more aggressive Mary, with the edge knobs of the Michelin. And a nice soft compound that feels similar to MaxxGrip but lasts waaaaay longer.
I’ve definitely got the top pictured hillbilly not the bottom one. The t7 29er one is much better then the gripton 650b one though. Feels more like a soft compound magic Mary then the 650b one.
Must not buy the new hillbilly - definitely don’t need another front tyre.
On the Wild Enduro my 29er one is magi-x as the gum-x version has been out of stock for ages now. It’s definitely harder than the gum-x 650b version on my hardtail - you can feel the difference just twisting the knobs 🫣. The magi-x one is noisier across the ground - so far it’s gripping well. Love it in the semi-muddy conditions we have at the moment. Will see how it goes when it gets colder I guess - the Hillbilly will go in when full winter arrives I expect.
New Hillbilly and cannibal have a lot more mechanical grip than a shorty and DHR.
I tried them in the Grid Gravity casing, T9 compound, I struggled with how stiff the tyre is and the subsequent feel. I found that whilst the shorty and dhr have less grip, the feeling is better. I'd give the grid trail a go, if they did the cannibal in that version.
I reckon mud tyres are difficult, because they're trying to balance spikiness and ground penetration, which needs a relatively small and firm knob, with rubber grip which wants a larger and softer knob. Specialized and Schwalbe seem to get the tread shapes really good, maxxis and conti seem to be better at the rubber side. Throw in casings which likewise aren't simple, you want compliance and suppport and slow rebound and fast rolling and tough and light all at the same time. So then you get WTB who just can't make a light tyre, or Maxxis who can never quite make their ranges make sense so there's 50 variants but the 2 you want never seem to exist...
All I want is a range designed by WTB product planners, designed by Specialized with continental rubber and schwalbe supergravity carcasses, with testing and feedback by Maxxis and distribution by Bontrager. Not much to ask is it?
LOL, knob.
i've got a new style 29er 2.4 shorty v2 in maxx terra exo thats only a few rides old - im not getting on with it so if anyones interested can have it for say 35 posted
https://off.road.cc/content/review/tyres/maxxis-shorty-gen-2-tyre-review-9033
exact same as this one - im not riding foresty type slid/slide stuff much really so its a bit wasted on me
Specialized and Schwalbe seem to get the tread shapes really good, maxxis and conti seem to be better at the rubber side.
Just as an aside, have you ridden an Ultra Soft compound Magic Mary per chance, or just the soft so far...? I ask because the difference is quite stark. The Soft is a great all rounder, but maybe loses out a little in absolute grip to some competitors in the name of significantly longer life span. The Ultra Soft is like chewing gum, and will blow you away in softer conditions if you've not yet ridden one!
Now available in 2.4" Super Trail casing too, not just Super Gravity, so an ideal winter front tyre for trail riders with the trail casing and the ultra soft compound rubber. 👍🏻
I'm after a winter 29er front and had spotted the ultra soft Mary super trail on a few European sites. Any UK stock about? Can't locate anything with Google
I've just gone to my winter tyres on my workhorse hardtail. Shorty front and back, 2.5 and 2.3. It still feels too early.
They are great for properly sloppy, but not just 'very wet' or 'a bit mucky'. To be at their best, they don't just need the top surface of the trails to 'go a bit', but to be at least an inch of filth. Then they can dig in and bite rather than skating across the top. And bloody hell you need to be careful with rocks and roots. There are big gaps in the tread - great for shedding mud, not so good for needing grip at that exact point.
I’m after a winter 29er front and had spotted the ultra soft Mary super trail on a few European sites. Any UK stock about? Can’t locate anything with Google
The short answer is "supply has somewhat outstripped demand"... The longer answer is that they're out there, if you're desperate you'll probably have to make a few phonecalls to known big stockists of Schwalbe tyres and you might be lucky... Or if you're a little more patient, get one on backorder with your local bike shop and it'll probably be a few weeks, rather than months, before you see one.
Waiting for free stock with online retailers is going to be a frustrating game though!
If you need any more help, PM me...
There are big gaps in the tread – great for shedding mud, not so good for needing grip at that exact point.
That's the thing with tyres... EVERYTHING is a trade off... Some people prefer to have a different tyre for pretty much any conditions, and chop and change them as they see fit. Some prefer to stick with a bit more of a good all rounder that doesn't particularly excel anywhere, but is more reliable come what may... The former camp are usually big Maxxis fans. The latter, like me, will have no trouble in recommending a Magic Mary usually... 😉
I’m an all year round user of a front Magic Mary, but my new bike came fitted with Spesch Butcher T9 and though I have a MM sat waiting to be fitted, I’ve yet to see a reason to replace it. The rear Elimator T7 has been very good too, though it was definitely helped by adding a cushcore to stiffen up the sidewalls. The butcher definitely isn’t as deep a tread as the MM or Shorty but seems like a solid option to me.
I have been impressed with T9 2.6 Butchers up front even in slop. The new compounds are a big improvement compared to the old ones.
But I also like DHFs too...
mboy
Free MemberJust as an aside, have you ridden an Ultra Soft compound Magic Mary per chance, or just the soft so far…?
Aye, it's good but imo doesn't compare well to maxxgrip- it sticks almost as well, but it wears so much faster. Also seemed to squirm more and roll slower though of course that could be some other element of the tyre and not the rubber so I wouldn't put much weight on that. Basically it felt to me more like an older supersoft, complete with "shagged after a weekend at fort william", like a slow reazy or something... I'd like to try it in a less knobbly tyre though. And, like you say the soft just isn't really that soft so there's quite a big gap.
(schwalbe get a double whammy here sometimes ime, because their tread shapes are usually really good- but that can mean they go off faster as they wear. Like, remember that original hans dampf that was just terrible once the square edges crumbled... Whereas maxxis's often feel like they're kind of adequate and the rubber's working harder, but that can mean that even once they're pretty worn they still work. Like, a completely shagged looking rounded torn up dhr2 will still do a turn)
The maxxgrip shorty 2.5 is just really bloody good tbh, only really let down by their random approach to carcasses. Stick that on a first-gen supergravity and I'd take it to bed.
I'm a year round soft Mary man myself 😉 Great front tyre for UK conditions and trails, which works on the rear as well. It does slop reasonably well but isn't the best of the best!
Slop needs deep, well spaced, square edged treads with no ramps. I can see why Maxxis changed (only slightly) the lateral bar part (is now two narrow spaced blocks) of the old Shorty tread. Effectively making it less biased toward a driving wheel/rear wheel of a bike, where paddle treads (often alternating for MTB tyres rather than the full tread pattern) can be favourable.
If you was to go Shorty front and rear, ideally you would want the old Shorty tread pattern on the rear and the new tread pattern on the front!
EVERYTHING is a trade off
That's not just tyres.
But, yes, obvs I take the point. Trail conditions near me right now are 'intermediate', so a fair few patches of deep mud, but nothing chronic. Some deep mud, some ice rink slime over hardpack and some dry. Often on the same trail. There will never be a single tyre that will be perfect on all that - and that doesn't take into account rocks and roots etc.