[Closed] Single-ring 'Bullying'

Heeeere kitty, kitty, kitty

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Is there a problem with riding a mountain bike along a road now, as well as having the "wrong" gearing configuration?

Jeez, this is getting complicated.

I don't have an Audi but I do sometimes find myself on a golf course. Not sure what, if any, gears I should be using for that part of the ride.

I am often on a golf course, but only because a local bridleway crosses it. What does that mean then? Eh?

Ah, you need a 'fore ring set up on a Bird(ie) for golf courses.

Or Eagle on a Pitch if you're loaded, obvs.

It mean's you'll need that big gear and 50kmh when the golfers start using you as target practice!

...executive prawn sandwich brigade...

I think the chip on the shoulder of [u]some[/u] "multi-ringers" is quite obvious, and really you have to accept that MTBing was never exactly a "Working mans" Sport. So far as I'm concerned its a pretty middleclass hobby, the bikes are not one of lifes necessities, and you probably get involved in it because you have the spare time and income to try interesting activities in the first place...

I've said it before and I'll say it again, MTBing is a pretty broad church, with plenty of room for everyone and their various quirks, I also don't really see it as old enough to have picked up any fixed "traditions" or "orthodoxy" either in terms of kit, riding formats or forming the old boys networks that you find with road cycling...

That is both a strength, in that there are no Holy cows and new ideas can perhaps be explored a bit more freely, and a weakness in that the marketing dept' can capitalise on participants willingness to "Innovate" and flog them new crap they possibly don't need. I get that it's frustrating when you see a formula you thought you understood get monkeyed with for someone else to derive profit....

But honestly Once a week for the last six months or so this same basic whinge thread has been trotted out and TBH nobody is really listening anymore, if I seemed "Unpleasant" and hurt some delicate flower's feeling with my previous post that's because really all you [i]"three-by-moaners"[/i] need to just accept the reality that lot's of bikes from this point on will have a single chainring up front and dinner plate sized cassettes and it's not actually the worst imaginable thing being sold to MTBers today, the plethora of axle, wheel and BB options are a far more frustrating set of changes...

So could you just toughen the **** up now! If anyone actually makes a comment over your drivetrain being a bit old fashioned it's almost certainly just gentle ribbing rather than some sort of chainring based bigotry...

Ride whatever you like but stop trying to turn your equipment choices into false victimhood.

I'm definitely getting bored of these threads...people are different, get over it.

I have 1x bikes, 2x and 3x bikes, sometimes the 1x is perfect, other times it's annoyingly lacking, sometimes the 2x/3x is perfect, other times is a pain in the arse, they all have their compromises.

Militant single-ringers are as bad as militant multi-ringers, its the militant bit that's the issue, fortunately they are the minority in real life and the mags don't always reflect what the majority of people are using in real life.

I'll use what I want when I want and prefer some setups for some things and other setups for others. Everyone accepts that tyres and grips/saddles are personal and/or condition specific can we not just accept the same with gears?

Can we pick something else to be a dick about now, just for a bit of variety like?

[i]I have 1x bikes, 2x and 3x bikes[/i]

Oh, just realised, me too!
Although the 1X is also 1X cassette sprocket-wise.

Can we pick something else to be a dick about now, just for a bit of variety like?

Just wait until the luddite >=2x'ers that no doubt still run inner tubes start arguing about schrader vs presta.

Fastest on my FS was along the road down a hill back from Brechfa to holiday cottage - just touched 74kph. Felt a bit sketchy with forks locked out.

At 74kph, your gearing is completely irrelevant.

Just wait until the luddite >=2x'ers that no doubt still run inner tubes start arguing about schrader vs presta.

🙂
Woods?

Can we pick something else to be a dick about now, just for a bit of variety like?

I think we've done everything else.
🙂

It's just a discussion right? If it pisses you off just don't get involved. It is a bit like politics or your mother in law giving you baby feeding advice, thank them for their input and move on in your own inimitable way.

amedias - Member

Militant single-ringers are as bad as militant multi-ringers,

Honestly I think that most of what feels like "militant" single ringers is just people reacting to ill-conceived and unsinkable negativity. It's no wonder people react strongly to "fine if you don't ride up hills" "driving places in your audi instead of proper riding", "fashion" (in the very first post) or things like "huge gaps" "narrow ranges" "long mechs" etc.

The strongest criticism of 1x almost always comes from people who've not tried it, but at this point most people who have a 1x bike have had a double or triple.

fine if you don't ride up hills

MTBing was never exactly a "Working mans" Sport. So far as I'm concerned its a pretty middleclass hobby

Don't confuse cycling off-road, which all enjoy, with shopping for products, which spawns 6+page threads.
🙂

Militant single-ringers

I hit 70kmh last weekend blasting down a road linking two trails. You can **** right off if you expect me to pedal at that sort of speed. Once I'm up into the 30kmh+ range it's freewheeling time 😆

If you can maintain 30kmh+ on a mountain bike on the flat then fair enough, I can't.

i have ridden on a golf course, the bunkers are great fun on a fatbike

The strongest criticism of 1x almost always comes from people who've not tried it, but at this point most people who have a 1x bike have had a double or triple.

Do I need to try it? If I already feel short of range on a 2x, then 1x isn't going to work for me is it?

I'd happily go 1x on my trail bike as I can easily afford to lose some top end there, but i'll hang onto 2x for as long as possible on my XC bike.

@Northwind, I think that's the whole point of this thread isn't it? people getting defensive about negativity being directed at them/their choice, no matter what side of the fence you're on*, if people make disparaging remarks they get defensive. It's just like road riders and compact/double/triple arguments 🙄

The strongest criticism of 1x almost always comes from people who've not tried it, but at this point most people who have a 1x bike have had a double or triple.

On a related note...I wonder how long before the tables are turned and most riders have only ever used 1x ?

* I have a door between them and enjoy both gardens 😉

sirromj - Member
Felt a bit sketchy with forks locked out.

It's a wonder that roadies even survive!

Do I need to try it? If I already feel short of range on a 2x, then 1x isn't going to work for me is it?

The strongest criticism of 1x almost always comes from people who've not tried it

I'm not criticising it...

Can we pick something else to be a dick about now, just for a bit of variety like

We haven't done comically wide bars for a while?

They have really buggered up my bike storage arrangement.

fifeandy - Member

Do I need to try it? If I already feel short of range on a 2x, then 1x isn't going to work for me is it?

Well, maybe. In your case, you know your existing range is narrower than you'd like but you also know it works- you've not felt compelled to fit 3x to add range, right? So that's your experience of the compromise outweighing the simple "that's not enough so it won't work". That experience is transferrable to 1x but ime it's not the same as doing it.

This is why I first tried 1x... I went from 3 to 2 quite early and heard all the "you're losing 9 gears" stuff. I did think I'd miss them- I used the top gears fairly often. But I soon found that while i used them, I didn't really [i]miss[/i] them when they were gone. So I applied the same thought process to 1x and decided to try it rather than assume it wouldn't work. I did experiment, trying riding with just those gears but it wasn't the same.

I'm still quite surprised it works for my hybrid- I would have never switched that from double if I hadn't experienced my brother's high-geared 1x commuter.

amedias - Member

On a related note...I wonder how long before the tables are turned and most riders have only ever used 1x ?

Interesting one! I didn't think it'd trickle down to cheaper bikes but it's happening. I think we'll end up in a place where lots of people have tried bad versions of the alternative- they might have cheap super-heavy 1x with limited range on an entry level bike, or for that matter cheap 2x or 3x and then replace with higher end stuff that inevitably works better...

I could feel the eyes of God bearing down on me so didn't change out of the middle ring riding across the chilterns yesterday, it must have worked because a driver apologised and said I was "of course correct" when I caught him up at the lights and castigated him for his two failed blind overtaking manoeuvres

The strongest criticism of 1x almost always comes from people who've not tried it, but at this point most people who have a 1x bike have had a double or triple.

I'm critical of it and i've got 1x and 3x thanks!

There's been a fair few comments from 1x'ers that anyone spinning out on a 1x is either
- not content bimbling
- riding on the road
- not shredding the gnar enough and riding down fireroads at speed

All of which apparently shouldn't be done on an MTB anymore. WTF

Maybe not, but if you did you might have some opinions on what it was like to ride in comparison to your 2x setup.

TBH, i bet its fantastic to ride.
Front mechs are a bit of a pain on the MTB, as they are prone to getting twisted in crashes, and don't shift very nicely when covered in filth.

But even given all that, i'd still not swap it if it means running out of gears even more than I do already.

Like I said, i'd happily buy a 1x trail bike, I really cant see any disadvantages for that application.
I'd even go with 1x for an XC race bike used purely for XCO racing.
It's the 29er that sees a huge variety of uses (bike packing, 24hr racing, training, and even a road sportive) that just needs more gears. Eagle 2x12 would be nice 😀

I didn't think it'd trickle down to cheaper bikes but it's happening

I'm surprised it hasn't trickled quicker to be honest, not for performance reasons but cost...

cheaper wide range cassettes are appearing, especially from SunRace, and although they're still more expensive than bargain basement offerings this could be offset with the cost reduction of ditching the front mech, front shifter, cabling, front rings and additional assembly time, over thousands of units it could be a big saving.

Obviously (X)x options will always be out there and specc'd where appropriate (as evidenced by Jameso's comments) but knowing how manufacturers love to save money I think we'll start seeing more and more 1x even at the lower end of the market soon, could be wrong though, I've been wrong before 😀

Anyway, we will see how long it takes!

It CAN be done on a MTB. But IMO it's not MTBing.

Like I said, i'd happily buy a 1x trail bike, I really cant see any disadvantages for that application.
I'd even go with 1x for an XC race bike used purely for XCO racing.
It's the 29er that sees a huge variety of uses (bike packing, 24hr racing, training, and even a road sportive) that just needs more gears.

Exactly that.

It CAN be done on a MTB. But IMO it's not MTBing.

What?

Now do the same plot with 1x11 32/11-42 vs 3x9 22-32-44/11-32

Okay, here's the plot you asked for. The triple has half an extra gear at the bottom for climbing and 2.5 extra gears at the top, 382% range vs 582%. I think most of the people banging on about climbing might be surprised by the similarity at the bottom end. For kicks I've added a typical 2x as well - 26/38 11-36; which has the same low range as the triple and runs out of gears slightly past the single you quote but about where SRAM 32/10-42 would. Shimano made a very stupid decision keeping the old free hub and leaving their 1x11 stuck at 11t top, but you don't need to run Shimano. If you really wanted to you can go for E*13 with 9-44 and then you have the bottom of the triple and only lose one gear off the top. Not everyone will want to make this choice as it's not cheap. I wouldn't, although I would drop the cash on Eagle GX if I was replacing my drivetrain or building a new bike.

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This whole argument is pointless. Use what you want, whatever works best. The Shimano 'race' 2x10 configuration gave the top end of the triple at the expense of climbing, so that's a proven option. If you cooked that with an expanded cassette or an 11sp cassette, you'd have the triple range covered completely. When you actually look at the ranges, it's inescapable that the arguments about missing top end applied to most peoples' 2x setups also, and so this is an argument that's over seven years old now. I guess some people just hold grudges.

@fifeandy - I use my 29er for all my off-road riding (apart from snow when I use the fat bike) and the 1x10 setup is fine. Is it optimal? No idea but I rarely use the 11T or the 42T so I suppose it isn't far off.

vincienup - What tool did you use for that ratio chart?

Only thing I have to add to discussion is that new Shimano side-swing front derailleurs are really excellent, a lot more positive shifts to both directions.

But you want to be able to ride a MTB at 50km/h ? Really ?

Yes.
Preferably at a sensible cadence, rather than ragging the tits off and spinning out.

You want a 9-56 cassette ? Honestly ? Really ?

Seven pages?! Jeez. A lot of people must really need to go ride a singlespeed 😉

sirromj - Member
[76kph] Felt a bit sketchy with forks locked out.

It's a wonder that roadies even survive!

Seven pages?! Jeez. A lot of people must really need [s]to go ride a singlespeed[/s] hugs

Ftfy

daern - Member
vincienup - What tool did you use for that ratio chart?

http://www.ritzelrechner.de/

A great tool and a bit of an eye opener if you think x1 range is limited - it really isn't - it's so close to x2 rings set ups, you can really see why people ditch their front mech !

@vincienup - your graphs.

If you were interested in low gears, you would probably have been/be running an 11-34 not an 11-32 9 speed cassette, with the option to go even lower with a 5-arm compact and a 20t granny (which I did once, it made for a nice spinny option for really steep stuff).

So at the bottom end the 22-34 you get by running a granny (0.65 ratio) is a whole gear's difference from 32/42 (0.76).

To re-create that ratio with a 42t you need a 27t ring.

Or a 30t with a 46t.

32t with a 42t lets me climb the really steep stuff too and I am 48.

A great tool and a bit of an eye opener if you think x1 range is limited - it really isn't - it's so close to x2 rings set ups, you can really see why people ditch their front mech !