[Closed] Single-ring 'Bullying'

Now do the same plot with 1x11 32/11-42 vs 3x9 22-32-44/11-32

I ran out of speed even on a trail descent. Not just road descent on the way to/from trails.

I don't care what people ride. Don't tell me what I should be riding, and don't tell me what is enough.

26er, fixed seatpost, 3x9, ultra narrow 740mm bars, that's practically like riding a bike with square wheels and square chainrings 🙄

I use every one of the gears on my 3x9 from the 22x34 to the 44x11 so until someone comes out with a 68-11t cassette to work with a 44t chainring i'm sticking with it.

I'm on a boost 29+ with 1x11, so close to being the Antichrist, but fortunately it's a hardtail. 😉

[quote=Nobeerinthefridge ]I said modern.

So compare a 2017 O5 with a 2017 anything else - you'd think they'd have gone bust if their bikes are so horrible. There's a lot of BS talked about sus bikes, when plenty of "modern" bikes are little different from single pivots in terms of axle path or anything else in real terms.

When I built my 29er, I deliberately chose to keep the old 3x9 instead of going 1x. What a crazy man.

When I built my commuter up I embraced the single ring as setting up a front mech is one of the most hateful things there is.

So compare a 2017 O5 with a 2017 anything else - you'd think they'd have gone bust if their bikes are so horrible. There's a lot of BS talked about sus bikes, when plenty of "modern" bikes are little different from single pivots in terms of axle path or anything else in real terms.

I can't, because I've never ridden an orange 5, similarly, you've only ridden older FS bikes, maybe you could try sticking to commenting on what you've actually ridden as well?.

Where did I say they were horrible?, I merely pointed out that they hadn't changed their design significantly in all that time.

Do any of you 1xers miss close ratios?

[quote=Nobeerinthefridge ]similarly, you've only ridden older FS bikes

How on earth do you know that?

I merely pointed out that they hadn't changed their design significantly in all that time.

Maybe that's telling you something - you did apparently suggest they were light years behind a modern bike.

That's something i never really noticed on 2x or back as far as 3x tbh. I mean, to actually get those close ratios, you'd be constantly changing up and down on the front, wouldn't you? How do you even know whilst out on the trails what is the next closest gearing on a multiple front ring set up? Do you think to yourself, right I'm in middle ring on the front, middle of the 9 at the back, to get my next closest gearing, I need to go down into granny, and then down what, 3 cogs on cassette?.

I never ever did that, had that thought process, in reality most of my riding on 3x was on the middle ring, and on 2x it was on the bigger one, unless I was on long or steep climbs, which is the only time I used the wee ring at the front.

So really, I had very similar spacing a to what I have now.

Christ that was a bit of a ramble, even bored myself there!. 😆

I'm not engaging you an further aracer, as you're looking for an argument, and it's really not much to do with the OPs point either.

Night night.

OP surely if you don't like the message in the mag stop buying it. At the end of the day they would have to represent views that their readers generally want.

Do any of you 1xers miss close ratios?

I'm actually preferring the one by, mainly because there are less gears to skip through. Sort of like an Alfine I suppose. Not been defeated by a hill yet and haven't noticed on the downs. It's just one less thing to faff with.

Compare me a 2017 Orange 5 with a 2002 Orange 5...

I was going to say different colours, but nope, I'm out of ideas, what's the difference?

Back to the OPs point, I went 1x11 a few years ago, as it was the latest and greatest at the time and for a long time I missed the granny ring of my previous bike. But then I got fitter, and now I don't miss the granny ring, even considering upping the front ring for my new found gunz...

Remember it never gets easier, you just get quicker.

Do any of you 1xers miss close ratios?

No, because it's just the same as changing gear when in the middle ring of a triple. The get the "close ratios" in sequence you have to change a couple of gears at the back and one at the front. As nobeer says most of the time you'll be on one chainring, probably the middle, then select the granny for uphill and the big ring for downhill. Once in the particular ring you won't be searching for the next closest ratio, you'll just move up and down the cogs at the back.

The HT currently has the classic hack of an 10spd XT cassette with the 17T removed and a 40T extender stuck at the bottom end so there's a definite gap at the point where the 17T used to be. When the extender wears out (probably another cassette before it does) then I'll put one of the specific wide range cassettes on, such as the Sunrace which I've got on the fat bike.

I do see the the OP's point but I wouldn't say anyone is being bullied as such.

If your happy riding what you have it's all good surely?

SS, fixed, 3x, 2x, 1x...

I would only be peeved if there was no choice at all. You HAD to go 1x as no one made other options anymore.

I run 1x personally but I like the fact I can choose what to run! 🙂

Don't really understand how anyone can call this bullying. You're oppressing me by saying my older thing is older than the newer thing!

slowoldman - Member

Do any of you 1xers miss close ratios?

I suspect my ratios/gaps are almost identical to yours. It's unintuitive but 11/42 11 speed cassettes are basically an 11/36 10 speed or 11/32 9 speed, with extra cogs.

weeksy - Member

What's that coming in at price wise to jump from 10 speed? £400 ? £500 ? new wheel/hub ? cranks, cassette, chain, shifter, mech....

£330 once the new GX drops. But the thing is, here you're costing it as an additional, that's only the case if you get 10 speed free.

(No need at all to replace cranks, or most decent hubs/wheels, btw)

Poopscoop - Member
If your happy riding what you have it's all good surely?

Not really.

Singletrack has always come across as the most impartial and free from industry bullshit mag available.

I'm happy to believe that Chipps, Mark and all the ST contributors much prefer 650b, 1*, Boost etc to the previous standards.
No issue with that whatsoever.

However, there were (and still are) a huge number of people who disagree with them.
Ignoring those people is one thing, denigrating them in the magazine is something else.

It says 'this mag isn't really for you'.
It's the exact opposite of the inclusivity that all the magazines use as a selling point.

See also 'real mountain bikers don't use cheap Chinese lights' and 'two grand is the new entry point for mtb's', both points of view espoused in Singletrack over the last few years.

If they want to concentrate on a certain demographic then that is their choice.
Being honest about it would be good.
Accepting that other people have a valid point of view would be even better.

Whenever this comes up, the standard industry response (and I include the MTB media) is to belittle those with a different point of view.
It's arrogant, unhelpful and doesn't portray those involved in a particularly pleasant light.

Swoon.

That rant in the OP reads very much like a letter in the MBR. You should try sending it in, you'll maybe win a prize

Aye, a narrow /wide chainring

Incidentally, I resent the way you're bullying me by slagging off my girvin flexstem, I loved mine. OK it was ****-all use on the bike but I converted it into a really brilliant camera mount for my motorbike

It's arrogant, unhelpful and doesn't portray those involved in a particularly pleasant light.

Or, it's a guy just having a bit of tongue in cheek banter. All depends if your one of the permoffended I suppose. It's one of the things I, contrary to the above, really like about the mag, there's lots of contributors opinions in there, but it's [i]their[/i] opinions, not the stance of the magazine per se. Witness Barneys (IIRC) article a few years ago about all other bikes being wrong, pointing out folks excuses about time short etc for MTBing as a justification for road or cx or whatever.

That article ruffled a few feathers, but at least it was interesting.

Better by miles than the robotic drivel in MBR, or that guy from dirt who's so far up his own arsehole he's nearly back out the top.

Bullying? Gies a break.

1x10 wasn't better than 2x10, but 1x11 means it makes sense.

I bought all my 2x10 drivetrain as new parts just under 2 years ago.

After 3 chain replacements at 0.75, by now, most of the parts had worn out beyond use.

Instead of replacing rings/chain/cassette/cables/jockey wheels, I bought a new 1x11 XT gearset and N/W chainring.

Taking into account the lack of front shifting parts, it cost me overall the same as the new 2x10 parts, and yet it's better (for numerous reasons).

I'll certainly be considering the same change on my other 1x9/3x9/2x10 bikes when their rings/cassettes won't mesh with a new chain any more.

Journalist in "Talking crap" shocker.

Stop buying the mags.

Nobeerinthefridge - Member

Or, it's a guy just having a bit of tongue in cheek banter.

I'm not the op, so please don't quote me out of context.
I'm not referring to a few comments in the latest mag, but to the industry attitude in general.

And I'm not offended.
🙂

Once in the particular ring you won't be searching for the next closest ratio, you'll just move up and down the cogs at the back.

I suspect my ratios/gaps are almost identical to yours. It's unintuitive but 11/42 11 speed cassettes are basically an 11/36 10 speed or 11/32 9 speed, with extra cogs.

Nah, that's what I'm saying, the big sprocket is literally an extra, on top of what we're used to. The first 9 gears of an 11-42 are identical to some 11-32 9 speed blocks, they've just added 2 more on top of what we always had. So the range is wider but the gaps are the same.

The 2 new gears do have bigger gaps but as you say it's proportional- the difference between 11 and 12 is pretty much the same as, say, 36 and 40. Same reason an older style cassette starts out 11-12-13 then ends up 24-28

It's weirdly unintuitive, one more cog doesn't feel like it should achieve that. Obviously if you like a 12-25 road cassette that's different but then, if you do, you're probably aware that you're an outlier (just like my 1x9, 50T front 11-28T rear is weird on my hybrid)

Vive la [s]revolution[/s] defence!

Still on 3x9, 16mm rims and rigid post here.
I'm eyeing up a new bike at the moment, the last few candidates are all 2x, no dropper and sub
25mm rims...

Even when you go Single Ring there is another form of Single Ring Bullying. "You're only running a 28, I'm running a 34!" and "That chainring is awfully small!"

I say you need it for steep climbs, they say "Or Stronger Legs"!

Still on 3x9, 16mm rims and rigid post here.
I'm eyeing up a new bike at the moment, the last few candidates are all 2x, no dropper and sub
25mm rims...

With all due respect, that's pretty much because you are buying below the cyclescheme limit IIRC? You would struggle to get a bike with a dropper for that, and if so, something else on the bike would be compromised.

Singletrack used to be different.
I lost an awful lot of respect for them when [s]650b was accepted without any kind of objective analysis of the pros and cons[/s] [b]they started featuring ebikes.[/b]

That is why I don't buy bike mags anymore.... I haven't got a problem with various wheel sizes, tapered steerers, boost hubs.... I don't want to pay to read about motorbikes.
Will always thumb through a may before buying now.

"You're only running a 28, I'm running a 34!"

grannyjone - Member

Even when you go Single Ring there is another form of Single Ring Bullying. "You're only running a 28, I'm running a 34!" and "That chainring is awfully small!"

My fatbike basically has a granny ring on it and no middle or big 😆

I rode a 2012 alpine and a 2006 five back to back at gt a few years ago. The difference was night and day, even for someone who had just started out biking again after 20 years

That said, the difference was definitely not down to how many gears it had!

@slowoldman - correct, it's the percentage difference between cogs you should look at not the difference in teeth. It's why there's 1T difference at the top end, 2T in the middle, then 4T. Going from 11T - 12T is a bigger jump than going from 32T - 36T, the latter should be 33T - 36T

Scales have fallen from eyes. Shall I go 1x now? Hmm, I bet I couldn't get a chainring small enough for my puny legs.

Scales have fallen from eyes. Shall I go 1x now? Hmm, I bet I couldn't get a chainring small enough for my puny legs.

If you get a direct mount chainset then you can fit a 26t if you want to. Might spin out quite early though.

I wouldn't get stressed about it, If a 2x or 3x works for you then stuck with it.

Easy answer, OP - stop buying and reading the magazines. Maybe not the solution the proprietors would like but don't encourage them.

slowoldman - Member
Scales have fallen from eyes. Shall I go 1x now? Hmm, I bet I couldn't get a chainring small enough for my puny legs.

Also as northwind points out the gaps are normal until you get to the big end when in reality 2/3x you would be dropping the front and shifting a chunk of the back to maintain a close ratio.

I much prefer not having that massive cadence change when I'm out riding.

If you think that ST Magazine dislike anything other than 1 x drivetrains then you clearly haven't seen this article reposted on facebook once a month for the last year 🙄

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/columns/2016/06/12-reasons-1x-drivetrains-suck/ ]singletrackworld.com/columns/2016/06/12-reasons-1x-drivetrains-suck/[/url]

I think you could only say it was bullying if we had no choice. Now a number [not sure what the number is] of manufacturers are speccing frames that can't take a front mech therefore limiting the buyer's choice of gearing. However , hopefully most bike makes will still turn out frames which can be used with any gear configuration even with no gears, should you choose.
Just buy frames and gears that you want. Even though the industry want to flog you new stuff, they won't pass up the chance of selling you old stuff if they still can.

A single ring seems to be the way the industry is moving, a lot of bikes don't come with a mount for a front mech anymore. Therefore the "old style" 2 x or 3 x are considered out of date. You may not like it or agree with it, but that is the way things are going.

The same way I like my CRT telly and don't want an LCD, its hardly bullying that people tell me it is old fashioned.

Ordinarily I object to use of terms like "snowflake" and "princess"

Sometimes the shoe fits though Cinderella

Many years ago MBR at least [i]tried [/i]to do tests of diffierent options against each other.

We have to accept that there is nothing impartial or objective or scientific about the way Singletrack or any other mag reviews bikes/standards and make up our mind for ourselves. Places like this are the right place to seek opinions.

The same way I like my CRT telly and don't want an LCD

That's just daft 🙂

A single ring seems to be the way the industry is moving

I'd be all in favour of 1x on trail bikes or even XC race but there are certain bikes that I think should have 2x e.g. adventure bikes, so I hope they don't disappear altogether.