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Who said anything about a pointy rock or expecting bikes to withstand everthing?
Because rocks, roots, etc are a part of mtbing. You can't design a bike to withstand every crash, simply there are too many variables. Unless you design to withstand everything then unfortunate accidents such as what has happened to the OP will happen.
It mentally hurts to damage a brand new bike, but it is a risk you take using it. As said to the OP suck it up, consider what you want from a bike, What are you willing to compromise to get it?
Again, referring back to the OP, what has rocks or withstanding every crash got to do with it? Can't we discuss the OPs case without making generalisations?
Can't we discuss the OPs case without making generalisations?
OK, he failed to unclip, so incompetence then? how do we design a bike to cope with that. I guess we could ban clipless pedals, is everyone happy with that solution? your warranty is only valid if you use flat pedals, ie no toestraps, no clipless etc
He fell over on to what? quicksand, boulders, no idea, how much does the OP weigh? is it 40kg levering the frame in a manner it is not designed to cope with or 200kg? think about rotational forces applying to bits of the frame that they are not designed to cope with. I have seen a 753 frame wrapped round a lamppost, perfectly strong but following the logic that crashes happen, and have you seen crashes in road race?
The reason bike are designed the way they are is because it is an efficient way to design them, but it does mean they can't cope with non-design loads.
If only it had been a Rocket you'd 'crashed' in the same way! 😉
mrmo, how the OP fell when he toppled over is a valid point and, as you say yourself, you've no idea. Why don't you ask him that question and get some idea of what happened. I'd also be interested to know if the OP had stacked the bike previously and also on what basis Silverfish rejected his claim. In addition to not covering crash damage, the Yeti's warranty also appears to not include frames that weren't built up into a bike by an authorised dealer.
the Yeti's warranty also appears to not include frames that weren't built up into a bike by an authorised dealer.
harsh, but seems fair, stops people coming back after ****ing up threads and saying it is Yetis fault.
Why don't you ask him that question and get some idea of what happened
It doesn't really matter beyond what the OP did specifically, he was racing, he crashed, both are not warrantable. Materials and workmanship is standard warranty clauses, did a weld/bond fail, no; did tubes spontaneously fail, no. Case closed. Some companies are more generous than others, some might give you the benefit of doubt, others won't.
mrmo - Member
Crashes aren't that likely and aren't that common, i don't know many riders who crash with any regularity, it hurts!
🙄
That's just daft - If Aaron Gwin can crash then...
That's just daft - If Aaron Gwin can crash then...
And we all ride like Aaron Gwin? Maybe most people just ride bikes? most people try not to crash? most people aren't that rad/gnar/whatever the latest **** word of the week is/etc. I crash once in a while, such is life, i don't go out for a ride thinking i am going to crash, then again i ride in lycra and ride old school XC. which shockingly as a style of riding covers most real peoples riding.
You buy an XC race frame and break it on fort bill DH? whose problem?
Warranty is not a get of jail free card, workmanship and materials, if neither is at fault chalk it up to experience and move on, talk to the importer and see if they offer a crash policy.
It doesn't really matter beyond what the OP did specifically, he was racing, he crashed, both are not warrantable.
From the OP's description, it appears he didn't crash whilst racing, he toppled over whilst at the event. Again these are facts to be established, rather than assumed.
From the OP's description, it appears he didn't crash whilst racing, he toppled over whilst at the event. Again these are facts to be established, rather than assumed.
Workmanship or Materials?
Again, establish the facts from the OP. If it was a simple topple-over incident, then I'd go for not fit for purpose.
Sorry to hear about your frame, dude. Crashing and breaking things does indeed suck, and is pretty hard to accept. The thing is, if you crashed and broke a bolt in your frame, or snapped a saddle rail or similar, you wouldn't claim warranty, you'd just replace it. Why should a frame be any different?
Admittedly it's a lot more money, but the principle's the same. Although this may be difficult to swallow, that's just the way of it.
Regarding the price of the swingarm, it's probably about right at £500. Bear in mind that it is half a frame, and carbon isn't a cheap material to make.
Most bike manufacturers won't have a specific retail price for replacement frame sections, as people who are buying them aren't doing it because they want a change of colour, rather that they have broken one. As such, that £500 is probably not far off cost (once you include VAT and and getting it to the UK etc)
A mate of mine did the back end in on his old bullit (non replaceable hanger) so he had to get a new one from Jungle. It came to about £360 all in (and this was back in '07) for a fairly basic chunky alloy triangle. So for a carbon fibre swingarm, 5 years later, £500 really isn't that bad a price.
He went through the same thing when his back end went (tore the threads out the hanger and deformed it completely) and tried to argue it was a design flaw. However, at the end of the day, he crashed it side on into a tree. No bike's going to withstand that without some sort of damage: He just got unlucky!
Best of luck getting it sorted.
Suck it up and repair or replace.
what he says...
if you crash your car into something theyre not going to provide a warranty....... car crashes happen all the time, even if its only a small crash you cant expect them to replace it.
How is this different for a bike?
If the neighbour's infant rode his Fisher Price trike into your car wheel and then you found a whopping crack all the way down the side of your car wing, would you not question the workmanship of your car?
Again, back to the OP, we're not talking about a high-speed stack or a bike failing after years of abuse, we're talking about whether a bike frame should withstand a simple toppling-over incident on it's fourth outing (if the OP is to be believed and assuming no other abuse). Personally I think it should.
why are people discussing this, its not a warranty issue - get over it.
we're talking about whether a bike frame should withstand a simple toppling-over incident on it's fourth outing (if the OP is to be believed and assuming no other abuse). Personally I think it should.
And they do, virtually all the time. But occasionally some combination of factors means that damage is done.
mrmo - Member
And we all ride like Aaron Gwin?
Not for me to answer so I won't.
The point was that if he ,(the best current DHer), can then it's likely we all can.
Similarly, watch the UCI XC stages - If one of Trek's riders had an off, got up to re-mount his carbon steed to find it was unrideable due to catastrophic crash damage - Do you think Trek would be happy with the coverage that gave them...
Whether they'd cover an identical crash 'under warranty' to the public...Well that's another matter.
Could they prove that warranty issues have/have not occured through rider mal-treatment? No, hence they don't cover it under warranty.
Do they make them to withstand crash damage? You bet they do.
Some even offer a 'crash replacement policy'. Now what does that tell you... 😉
From the OP's description, it appears he didn't crash whilst racing, he toppled over whilst at the event. Again these are facts to be established, rather than assumed.
+1
Some even offer a 'crash replacement policy'. Now what does that tell you..
It buys brand loyalty, that is all and you don't need to crash, just damage to use it.
been there.
Similarly, watch the UCI XC stages - If one of Trek's riders had an off, got up to re-mount his carbon steed to find it was unrideable due to catastrophic crash damage - Do you think Trek would be happy with the coverage that gave them...
**** happens, seen what happens to road frames in a crash?
Back to the OP, materials or workmanship, show me either and it is a warranty, else bad luck
" Build a Rocket Boy "
8)
CEN requirements include impact damage from striking objects and falling frames
No they don't. At least not in the sense of rock impacts etc, the 'falling frame' impact test is simply a measure of a minimum yield strength under a straight-on landing type of load.
Anyway. Is this still going? No frames are meant to be resistant to falling off sideways onto rocks. I think there's just a simple lack of structural understanding here. I've seen a few top end brands' bikes wrecked this way. I've done it myself endoing sideways into a rocky area at low speed. Frame was badly damaged. It's not warranty, it's clumsiness / accident / one of those things and what crash replacement deals are for, to ease the pain a little. Don't go in with the 'fit for purpose' thing as you're likely to annoy / offend the very people who can help out.
Just be happy that you didnt damage yourself badly!
Gutted for you in a respect. Although as you progress up the bike bling ladder, when things get damaged either through riding or other means, the potential cost goes up. Unfortunately in this non-warranty case the replacement seems to be expensive (see above). Claim on household insurance as accidental damage? Which presumably it is?
Just a though. Or ride a cheap lightweight hardtail 😉
Ever manufacturer has a crash replacement policy.
This ISNT a warranty issue.
What next, rockstrike dimples under the downtube are the fault of the maker?
Bad luck is not a warranty claim, it's just difficult to swallow.
Spoken like a gentleman, and very true.
+1
I have a carbon roadbike but I won't be getting a carbon mtb if they can't take a slow speed topple onto a rock. I'd be buying a new bike every year!
Sum - Member
If the neighbour's infant rode his Fisher Price trike into your car wheel and then you found a whopping crack all the way down the side of your car wing, would you not question the workmanship of your car?Again, back to the OP, we're not talking about a high-speed stack or a bike failing after years of abuse, [b]we're talking about whether a bike frame should withstand a simple toppling-over incident[/b] on it's fourth outing
Actually the OP described falling over whilst stuck into his SPDs. This means his entire weight came with him in the fall. Now if there was any sort of sharp edge/rock that his sing arm contacted in the fall this would probably be a massive point load in an axis that the frame wasn't designed to take.
The thing about slow speed crashes versus high speed crashes (Caveat: where it isn't a big drop/jump landing) is often times in a higher speed crash the rider is usually no longer with the bike versus a slow speed like the OP described wouldn't necessarily be that unusual for the rider still to have all of his mass connected with the bike. Which means the point loads for the frame to take are much higher.
The way the OP has described it sounds like it probably would have left a large mark on many's a frame let alone a lightweight XC race machine which has been designed for minimum mass rather than extra robustness.
Finally another point to make is the OPs 4 rides example is a bit superfluous considering he's openly stated he's done 2 x 24hr races on it and another race. Which considering the previous 2 being 24hr races it probably wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility to assume it was another endurance race. These combined are probably equivalent to about 3-6months continuous riding for the average rider. As opposed to just 3/4 rides old. Mind in saying that I would certainly expect a new frame to last longer than that but just saying the only 3 rides line is a little bit untruthful considering most really high end race bikes probably only get ridden for a couple of hours a week at most.
How long the bike's been ridden is utterly irrelevant. You could have this accident riding away from the bike shop and it's still not a warranty.
Granted and agreed. To be honest I think my previous points are far more relevant/significant. Just saying the only 3 rides line in real life context is not exactly the most truthful.
Do you have "all risks" household insurace? If so, why not claim new swingarm under that?
I have a carbon roadbike but I won't be getting a carbon mtb if they can't take a slow speed topple onto a rock. I'd be buying a new bike every year!
Better not go for aluminium either then.
Indeed frank - not a go at you.
p20 where did you get ur swingarm repaired , im paranoid about breaking mine and have been trying to find a spare for if this happens , never thought about repairing , was yours a 2007 model and where was it broken ??? cheers
Hello again,
A few more details for those that have asked above, and a quick update.
The bike was on it's fourth time out. As mentoned above two of the otehrs were 24hr races, the other was an XC event so in total it's had less than 50hrs use. This was it's first crash of any sort.
I fell on my left side with my right foot unclipped and left still attached so the weight should have been underneath the bike rather than on top of it. It was not a roack that caused the damage, there is no impact damage on the affected area, it must have been a bending-type force. Also, when I say 'cracked' I mean 'split rigth through about 3/4 of the way around around the tube so is is still joined together but clearly unsafe to ride.'
.
The answer I have had from Silverfish when pressed on the point was to revise their offer of a 'cost price' replacement down from £500 to £331. So what they were offering as cost first wasn't! I can't afford £331 either (just becasue I have a bike worth £lots doesn't mean I'm wealthy, quite the opposite in fact, I've blown all my money on a rather expensive bike...) I have already sent it away for repair as I need it for the Gorrick 12hr on the 26th. No spare swingarms on fleabay at present either.
.
Also, no-one appears to have commented on the fact that Yeti completly redesigned the swingarm for the model-year after mine. Does this indicate that they knew it wasn't up to the job? The repairer I spoke to knew exactly what I was talking about as soon as I mentioned Yeti, he's seen a few! I know stuff gets improved and updated all the time but the new version is slightly heavier so to me the redseign seems to show they knew it needed beefing up.
It's still crash damage no matter how you look at it so you will have to start saving.
Life can some times seem a bit unfair, but there you go.
Hope my advice will help you move on 🙂
Just don't buy the carbon Demo 8. £10K is what I heard so god knows what they'll be charging for a new swing arm 🙂
As a bit of support, first time out on my new CRF I had a low speed fall against an embankment, it broke the radiator, I dont have any come back as I was racing and it wasnt a manufacturing fault. £300 bill.
You have to sit back and say if I hadnt crashed it wouldnt have broken.
Now I know your fuming because you think it should be able to withstand more abuse, but now and again you crash in a certain way to break the frame when 99% of the time it wouldnt leave a scratch.
I guess you were unlucky.
Or, like you said earlier, just don't tell them what you were doing when it broke. "I was just riding along a canal towpath on my way to the shops when my front wheel taco'd, the forks bent backwards, and the frame broke in half."
i trashed a Scott Scale frame and a front wheel in a comedy slippy-slide down a muddy hill in Essex. not a rock in sight.
ended up massively denting the top tube and tacho-ing the front wheel.
nothing covered by the warrenty. so i bought a new frame (a steel one).
<possibly borderline trollish, this>
I'd agree it's not a warranty job, if it wasn't a Yeti. But they're the undisputed champions of broken carbon swingarms, and so I'd be less inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
It's not a warranty issue but to my mind it is probably a 'not fit for purpose' issue.
I really wanted an ASR5 but was put off by the breakages. I wouldn't buy a Yeti as they seem to break far far to frequently for a premium frame.
Surely moutain bikes are mean't to withstand crashes? I crash probably once every 3-4 rides, if my bikes broke every time I crashed I'd be broke!! Gonna keep riding the Heckler complete with all it's crash scrapes amd scratches!
I agree, technically it's not warranty and although I understand the OP's frustration for all SF know he could be trying it on, have ridden the bike loads, and hit a rock at 25mph. Shame they couldn't reach an agreeable compromise as this thread won't do much for Yeti's reputation.
for all SF know he could be trying it on, have ridden the bike loads
There was a witness (3 actually) Rossendale Mountain Rescue were at the Weekender and it happened right next to them (thanks again for patching my knee up guys)
Ride-On (a Yeti dealer) were there so they were my first stop after I found the damage, showed it to them and asked if I could borrow a demo bike for the event, return it in the evening for demoing purposes and then borrow again for the Sunday event. They had to ring head office to check this, so I continued my wander around the pits and found the lovely chaps at Cotic who helped out. After the event I went back to Ride-On to discuss what to do, offered to show them where it happened and introduce them to the people who saw me do it, thinking it would make a warranty claim easier if a dealer had all the info SF could verify it easier, but they just said to ring SF.
Northwind and neninja seem to be going down my line of thinking, ie. Yeti frames do break a lot so it is more likely to be a design fault than just a 'one of those things' crash.
I've emailed Yeti themselves, bypassing SF altogether, maybe they'll be nice helpful people, I'll let you all know.
nacho - Member
Surely moutain bikes are mean't to withstand crashes? I crash probably once every 3-4 rides, if my bikes broke every time I crashed I'd be broke!! Gonna keep riding the Heckler complete with all it's crash scrapes amd scratches!
I agree, technically it's not warranty and although I understand the OP's frustration for all SF know he could be trying it on, have ridden the bike loads, and hit a rock at 25mph. Shame they couldn't reach an agreeable compromise as this thread won't do much for Yeti's reputation.
Agree wi this.