I don't believe the Vatican is a proper state which is apparently why we are helping fund this "state" visit...
Oh and the whole, nazi, peado and it's all made up thing obviously....
So it's a no from me..
No
no.
Nope.
Having spent some time in Africa and seen the aids devastation first hand, I can't get past the condom thing.
No.
My daughter is going on a protest march in London, reckon I might join her.
No.
Going to be traffic chaos as well.
No. The Vatican is not poor.
No !
Yes 😉
Id like to know how and why this amount of money needs spending - I personally think our glorious bankers should be made to fund the visit out of their 'bonuses'
No, for all the reasons mentioned above and several more.
I have no problem with religion per se, but I don't feel that such a large amount of taxpayers' money should be spent by our government to entertain any foreign visiting dignitary. Especially considering the wealth of the Vatican.
Don't see why the Pope can't just get an Oyster card and stay at a Travel Inn place.
My daughter is going on a protest march in London, reckon I might join her.
Ooh! Can I come? 😀
my fellow athiests shouldn't have to pay
[i]My daughter is going on a protest march in London, reckon I might join her.[/i]
And how much money is that going to waste having to police that?
I don't believe the Vatican is a proper state
Regardless of your individual opinion, The Vatican City is internationally recognised as an independent Sovreign State.
my fellow athiests shouldn't have to pay
By that reckoning, then neither should any non-Catholics.
And how much money is that going to waste having to police that?
Upholding Law and Order concerning British Citizens right to protest isn't a waste of money.
Is imo and imagine in a lot of others as well and no more of a waste of paying to protect the head of a state no matter how small that state is. Though personally I don't agree with paying the £12million when the church must be one of the riches organisations going.
I'm apoplectic about this, truly angry. So many reasons that this should not have been allowed. Vatican city is only a state for tax reasons, says it all really.
And how much money is that going to waste having to police that?
I find it quite sad that genuine protest marches just do not happen these days. In my day (goes into hippy mode) it was the done thing.
There's a lack of passion for causes.
neverfastenuff - Member
Id like to know how and why this amount of money needs spending - I personally think our glorious bankers should be made to fund the visit out of their 'bonuses'
They're already generating Billions of pounds of profits for the UK Government.
Nope.
Catholics should pay if they want him, why should I pay?
I'm apoplectic about this, truly angry.
Blimey. I can think of thousands of things that make me angry, but this is just mildly annoying in the general scheme of things really.
£12 million is a pittance considering the billions the Olympics is going to cost or wanting to host the world cup.
Actually, it makes me angry. It's bordering on arrogance and contempt for so many people who are financially struggling in this country.
If your daughter comes to London, CG, I can look after her. 🙂
What?
Blimey. I can think of thousands of things that make me angry, but this is just mildly annoying in the general scheme of things really.
It's not so much the money that bothers me, more that we are extending a warm official welcome to someone who has systematically helped to cover up child abuse.
Millions will be spent on security alone.
Still, if it keeps our kids safe from him it's worth the cost.
😉
I don't think he's got it him to do any thing I think even your hamster would be safe though i'd be willing to sacrifice the STW hamster to god 😉
I'm completely opposed to the church to have to contribute to what should be a pastoral visit just boils my piss..It's not right.
Millions will be spent on security alone.Still, if it keeps our kids safe from him it's worth the cost.
If your daughter comes to London, CG, I can look after her.What?
We could save millions if CG just keeps an eye on her daughter.
Another emphatic No.
We could save millions if CG just keeps an eye on her daughter.
tails - she is an adult! However, that's awfully kind of Elf to look after her. 😀
I'm completely opposed to the church to have to contribute to what should be a pastoral visit just boils my piss..It's not right.
It's not up to you though is it? Sometimes we have to accept that things happen which we don't agree with, but others do. I'm sure there are millions in Britain who feel the opposite to you. Why should your opinion take precedence over yours?
Our taxes also get spent on weapons that kill innocent people. That angers me far more than some old bloke in a pointy hat coming to kiss runways and wave at folk from inside a mobile greenhouse.
CG; you want her off your hands? Consider it a service that I give to you for free. Because I'm nice like that.
BTW YGM.
Why should your opinion take precedence over yours?
Bugger. Should read:
Why should your opinion take precedence over [i]theirs[/i]?
Another no, for all the same very obvious reasons. The catholic church and the vatican city do not lack funds.
Only relevant question that might turn it into a yes for me is will it make money... Which it might. Selling 120000 "I saw the Pope" tshirts would be a start.
Olympics & world cups will cost more but slightly more that 1 overdressed german might come. £12 Million for 1 tourist sounds like we are desperate here. Hopefully if we all stop believing in him he might not exist....
No. We're not a catholic country so either the Vatican should pay to protect him or the catholic church can pay. What should tax payers have to stump up for that as well? Unless he is personally going to knock on every door and say hello!
No - The Vatican isn't a real state!
I would, however, like to see the Pope visit the UK ... so long as he is arrested upon arrival for being complicit in crimes against minors.
Is he going to be transported in a "pope-mobile" this time?? Talking of safety and security there's nothing says 'trust in god' so much as 3 inch bullet-proof glass eh!
Religion? Sh1t it!
You're right it's not up to me but I believe that I'm not in the minority in thinking it's wrong.
Of course other bad things happen but the hypocrisy of this really gets my goat.
We have been discussing at work how to make the Pope's visit fun for us.
(Once we have all figured out how to actually get to work on the 16th that is, I checked the list of road closures on the Edinburgh Council website and it is pretty much all of them.)
Anyway we are thinking about dressing up in costume and going to watch, much like the World 7s in countries that do that kind of thing. At the moment we will either be a group of Jesuses (Jesae ?) or possibly Elvae. Nuns was ruled out early.
somebody shoot him please
the visit gets my support.. as again.. I find it very hard to respect the opinion of someone who is more angered by this waste of money as apposed to some city bigwig being awarded a 12m annual bonus.. or as mentioned elsewhere.. olympics.. arms.. hedge funds.. overcrowded prisons.. and a million and one senseless wastes of taxpayers money..
I personally approve wholeheartedly of wasting taxpayers money as eventually people will become tired of it and actually start supporting protest and civil discontent again..
rather than just ranting about injustice online before going to their government sponsored job to blindly and gleefully pay tax to the eton mafia so that they can spend the leftover wage on the latest watch/ego chariot/suit/property/marks and spencers ready meal blah blah blah
Happy for his church and congregation to pay for the visit and policing. I expect he is coming over to meet all the abused kids they have been calling liars so frequently over the years, or to give a promotion to some of the abusers.
Not happy for tax payers money to be spent on his visit, or the Olympics and suchlike when the country is broke and the same millions of pounds could be spent on health care or on not cutting back on important services. 12 million is a lot of heating for pensioners this year, if they cant think of anything to spend it on.
Still why would the Pope be concerned about health care when he is so keen for millions to die of AIDS - so he can feel secure his own belief that he will end up in heaven?
Actually if someone manages to shoot the ****... it will be money well spent.
Another no. I think it's a bit rich for such a wealthy and self-serving organisation to be accommodated at anyone other than it's own expense, and that's before you even get onto the abuse scandal. And for Bishop whats-is-name on the radio the other day to compare it to a state visit was pretty disingenous I thought.
Or to look at it another way, here is the chat from Edinburgh City Council:
Councillor Jenny Dawe, Leader of the Council: “This is a superb opportunity for Edinburgh to be seen on the world stage and to showcase the city as an excellent host of major events.
“While many people overseas already appreciate Edinburgh’s qualities as a place in which to work, study and holiday, I hope that some of the millions watching the Pope’s arrival in the UK are encouraged to come and see our city for themselves. It is undoubtedly a significant visit and I’m sure that the city will, as usual, rise to the occasion.”
I live 5 mins ride from the B'ham park he will be in, it is now closed to the public, I think this is to clear up all the dog poo though rather than security, it's going to make commuting around the area a pain
I might try and ride my bike through the area as a protest, pity it's not on a bridleway or I'd have complained at lack of access
£12M thats bugger all money and not just compared to some of the huge money sinks we are currently investing in.
like it or not its a state visit and the politics of not doing it far outweigh a bit of grumbling online by you lot.
i will however make as much effort to catch a glimpse as i did when the ****stani chief came over to avoid the flooding back home.
In answer to the original question. No.
To the original question, yes. It's a state visit by the leader of a major world religion. Like it or not, that leader is respected by a large number of British citizens.
Arguing that this kind of thing shouldn't be paid for by the taxpayer, and should come out of the organiser's purse, is IMO unreasonable - there are 1000s of other activities that I will never enjoy nor benefit from that are taxpayer subsidised, this is just one more of them.
(Full disclosure: I'm not paying for this visit, but he's coming to Madrid sometime this year and I will be paying for that one!)
£12million quid? - it's a bargain.
the pope is hilarious! - just like spinal-tap or Brass-eye.
i mean, it [i]is[/i] all a joke, right?
what with the voodoo, and the drag-act theatrical ceremonies, the vicious hypocrisy, and the staggering display of wealth, and the looking at his balls to make sure he isn't a doris...
brilliant, comedy genius.
the Pope! - gods own rock star! - turning it up to 11 every day for Jesus!
I think we should start a facebook protest pettition. That'll show the government the true feelings of the british public and force them to re-think!
I think everone who opposes it should get to London or other major city and kick up a real stink, protest your lungs out!! In response to the origonal question NO.
mogrim - Member
"To the original question, yes. It's a state visit by the leader of a major world religion. Like it or not, that leader is respected by a large number of British citizens."
And that's why it's OK that it's happening, and why the huge disruption it'll cause to the non-catholic majority is acceptable. But that's not an argument for us to be bankrolling it in this way, since the costs aren't just for visiting, they're for the large-scale events he'll be doing. If Nicolas Sarkozy comes to visit we don't pay to have him parade down Princes Street- we pick him up, we feed and house him and we protect him and that's all the Pope should get too.
Unless, as said, there's an economic case for it.
no. 😕
Who is this pope chap, a small rather insignificant man, who has never married,dresses in a hat the shape of a penis, wears a dress to work, people kiss his ring,lives with a lot of other men in a big castle,says being gay is wrong, abortion is wrong, contraception is wrong,
Should be good when he is on Top Gear, as the star in the reasonably priced car, lets hope it has a sun roof for his hat to stick through,
Then he could go on the Paul O Grady show, Alan Carr, chatty man, Scott Mills in the afternoon, and finally Grahame Nortons show.
Then relise theyre all gay, the shame of it.
Then finally on the chav argument programe with disfunctional families, to be questioned about various aspects of his life, before security step in to drag disfunctional nuns off him.(cant remember the name)
Now that would be worth watching.
And that's why it's OK that it's happening, and why the huge disruption it'll cause to the non-catholic majority is acceptable. But that's not an argument for us to be bankrolling it in this way, since the costs aren't just for visiting, they're for the large-scale events he'll be doing. If Nicolas Sarkozy comes to visit we don't pay to have him parade down Princes Street- we pick him up, we feed and house him and we protect him and that's all the Pope should get too.
OK, and here I freely admit my ignorance: who pays for the policing of other public events? Glastonbury, the Cup Final, Wimbledon, the Edinburgh Festival, etc.? Are they shared (in which case the catholic church should share the costs, too) or are they wholely paid for by the taxpayer?
No - The Vatican isn't a real state!
Sigh.
It is. As are Lichtenstein, Monaco, Luxembourg and Brunei. The reasons for their existence as States is irrelevant. Their sovereignty is fact.
joolsburger - Member
You're right it's not up to me but I believe that I'm not in the minority in thinking it's wrong.
I dare say most people in Britain are opposed to the cost of His Popeliness visiting our shores. But regardless of whatever state he is the head of, he should be afforded equal hospitality as any other, in a free, 'democratic' and open society. Otherwise we'd just look like a bunch of bigots.
The visit of Obama a while ago cost the UK taxpayers far, far more.
Cant they just have a jolly good pray and see if the cash turns up?
Or just pass a bucket around for a colection.
The visit of Obama a while ago cost the UK taxpayers far, far more.
I may be playing fast and loose with the word democracy but I think you will find the process to elect him was more involved than a few deluded self indulgent blokes in dresses and a bit of smoke!
It's going to cost £12m because it is a state visit by the Pope and the money is for all the pomp and ceremony. We spend the same amount if any head of state comes to this country. If he came on his own accord then it would costs a lot less and the Church I guess would have to cover it. The government should never had said yes to a state visit in the first place, then again £12m is bugger all in the scheme of things. Probably spend that each week on tea and biscuits in the civil service.
surfer - MemberCant they just have a jolly good pray and see if the cash turns up?
lol
Now if they could get the Boss turned up, that would be worth 12m.
mogrim - Member
"OK, and here I freely admit my ignorance: who pays for the policing of other public events? Glastonbury, the Cup Final, Wimbledon, the Edinburgh Festival, etc.? Are they shared (in which case the catholic church should share the costs, too) or are they wholely paid for by the taxpayer? "
It varies- for the festivals the organisers pay for at least some of the policing (IIRC at Leeds/Reading they have to cover all costs for the on-site policing). Edinburgh Festival doesn't, other than I think they used to contribute for Fringe Sunday but then it doesn't need much policing and the financial benefits are well known. Not sure about Police. Football, I don't know about, I think the answer to that one's possibly very complicated.
But, that's not actually relevant because this is the non-policing cost. The real cost to the taxpayer is going to be considerably higher, the 12 million is just part of that total cost.
"woody74 - Member
It's going to cost £12m because it is a state visit by the Pope and the money is for all the pomp and ceremony. We spend the same amount if any head of state comes to this country"
I am extremely unconvinced by this statement. The Pope's state visit isn't on the same scale as a typical state visit so if the costing's at all comparable that would be surprising. But I suppose it depends, again, on what's actually included- if the police cost isn't included in this, is there anything else that should be but isn't?
I remember cycling down The Mall, and seeing loads of Norwegian flags. A kind policeman explained they were for the State Visit by the King and Queen of Norway. Probably a dinner somewhere, then off to the Palace and that.
Din't even make the local news. Not many folk are interested in the Norwegian Royal Family. Unlike the Pope, who will have hundreds of thousands turn up to see him. I do feel the Vatican should be stumping up for the extra security measures though. Maybe they are already, and we haven't been told.
no surely god will protect him from stuff?
If not surely it was just gods will?
lolNow if they could get the Boss turned up, that would be worth 12m.
Posted 3 hours ago # Report-Post
Ahh, now Springsteen would really add to the occasion.
Helping keep me in a job so yes! 😛
"Junkyard - Member
no surely god will protect him from stuff?
If not surely it was just gods will?"
You'll find the catholic church has a lot of experience in dealing with this awkward question, most people have heard of Pope Urban VII who died after 13 days in the office, before his coronation, but there's been 9 popes that didn't last a month before popping their clogs- God may be infallible but He is also ineffable. Wish I could get away with that. "This piece of work is completely wrong" "Ah, I work in mysterious ways"
lol
Now if they could get the Boss turned up, that would be worth 12m.
Posted 3 hours ago # Report-PostAhh, now Springsteen would really add to the occasion.
well worth every penny and far more entertaining but as he was here last year I don't think there's much chance .... 😉
Going on some of the replies on this thread, can the pope be arrested for inciting religious hatred ? It was all peaceful and tolerant in here until his name got mentioned.
No
Now if they could get the Boss turned up
12M to see Bruce Springsteen?
I expect the pope will need an endless supply of small boys as well ,probably wearing jack boots.
£12 million is a pittance considering the billions the Olympics is going to cost or wanting to host the world cup.
Maybe but that still does not make it right.