[Closed] Shimano 2011 embargo

It gets earlier every year

Too true!

I think the bike industry needs to break away from this "release year" obsession. I don't think it really does much, to be honest, apart from leaving shops with "old" stock that they have to reduce.

Change the product cycles to deliver the new products as and when they are ready, then roll them out as and when they are required/wanted. Surely that could be done?

Would I be allowed to post a link to a site where someone has posted a link to pics of the groupset? How many 'links to' would be acceptable?

Well, I didn't care until I saw the word 'embargo' at which point I googled shimanio 2011 leak and clicked on the first link. Then I remembered I didn't care again.

Hahaha. I did the same.

iggs - Still their copyright I'm afraid, photographing is just a means of reproduction.

i've just seen a photo! are shimano going to come and poke my eyes out as they now have had an impression of the new set? yikes, i better wear some goggles!

😉

I don't know if this has been mentioned already but under the pictures of the XTR groupset on Weight Weenies there's a chart with new Shimano product codes. If the chart isn't a wind up then XTR, XT and SLX are going 10 speed next year.

I just did the same. All I saw was an xtr chainset that looks exactly like the current one but hidden in a safe. Did I miss something?

Hot-linking is a tricky legal issue. It's been tested in courts and the result was pretty much that if you enable it to be displayed on your website then you are considered in law to have published it. Doesn't matter if it's hotlinked.. that's just a technicality. Until last the end of 2008 our servers were sited in the US. But our company is UK based. All our images were being served from a US computer and yet if we were to be brought up on a legal case regarding publication of any images there's no way we'd be able to claim the images were not published in the UK. Just an example of how the internet is rather global when legal frameworks are not.

When it comes down to it the law is pretty straightforward. If it appears on our website then we are considered to have published it. That's why when one of you says something defamatory about someone else their legal people will threaten us unless we take it down.

So, hotlinked or not.. any images will be removed because if we don't WE will be deemed to have published them.

so contrariwise, if someone posts a link to a site hosting the pics then you've not published them ?

Onzadog - Member
I just did the same. All I saw was an xtr chainset that looks exactly like the current one but hidden in a safe. Did I miss something?

Yes.

Bit lower down the google page, the one with the shiney cranks.

I guess they want to promote the product only when it's actually available to maximise sales. Also it's a poker game with SRAM - neither wants to show their hand early.

Simon, yes, that would be the legal case. However, that's not something we are ever going to try and put to Shimano in a sticking up two fingers kind of way, followed up with a bit of an embarrassed shuffling of feet when we ask why we haven't got any priority media samples of their groupsets when all the other mags and websites have theirs.

So... don;t try and be smart about this. If you want to discuss Shimano 2011 and look at leaked pictures then by all means do it on your own website. We'd rather you didn't do it here.

So... don;t try and be smart about this. If you want to discuss Shimano 2011 and look at leaked pictures then by all means do it on your own website. We'd rather you didn't do it here.

you mistake me, I have no interest whatever in new groupsets - I'm running a square taper chainset & BB that cost me £33 complete when new 🙂 What I care about is pointless censorship. Are you saying we shouldn't even discuss the concept on here - if so, you really ARE in hock to the manufacturers and have voided your journalistic integrity 🙁

[b]FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT![/b]

😉

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

I wouldn't so characterise it. Mark has a big stick and I only have a big no(i)se 🙂

you really ARE in hock to the manufacturers and have voided your journalistic integrity

God I hope that's not the case. It'll be sponsored 'control' tyres next.

Are you saying we shouldn't even discuss the concept on here

What are we doing now?

If I say no isn't that a bit like the monty python sketch where the blokes asks if this is the place for an argument? 🙂

And it's only pointless censorship if there are no consequences.

What are we doing now?

ah, that's OK then, I thought you were warning me off!

If I say no isn't that a bit like the monty python sketch where the blokes asks if this is the place for an argument?

Nirvana ?

And it's only pointless censorship if there are no consequences.

the consequences you described sounded like a storm in a thimble

What I care about is pointless censorship. Are you saying we shouldn't even discuss the concept on here - if so, you really ARE in hock to the manufacturers and have voided your journalistic integrity

It's just like watching The Wire. A shameful day for journalism everywhere eh? 😆

you really ARE in hock to the manufacturers and have voided your journalistic integrity

This is the bike industry. We are a bike mag. We rely on the industry to provide us with product to test for you guys as much as they rely on us to provide them publicity by publishing those tests. We aren't in an industry full of life threatening conspiracies that we must out and reveal in some detailed expose. It's a really nice industry that makes bikes for us all to ride and enjoy. The industry makes cool stuff.. We test it and write about it. The stuff that's good gets good publicity and you the readers get to learn about the latest kit and then you chose to buy it or not. That's the way it all works. There are no conspiracies or coverups or back handers to journalists in brown envelopes... It's just people making bikes.. people writing about them... people buying them.. That's it!

There's secret stuff and embargoes because it's a competitive market. Companies compete to stay in business.. that competition helps drive development of better products. Part of the competition is only releasing information on new products when the manufacturer is ready to release it. magazines that try and bugger that up by pre-releasing information die because the magazines exist because of the support not only of the readers but of the industry they are part of.

Magazines that bullshit the readers with backhander fed reviews also die as readers can easily bias as many many of them are just as enthusiastic about riding bikes as the writers are.

The whole thing works for everyone from readers to manufacturers when everyone works together. Shimano are not ready to release the information on their new products yet.... and Singletrack will respect that, because the people behind those products are good people trying to develop the best product they can. At the end of the day, after all the debate about marketing, and unnecessary product launches year after year, the reason you are riding nine speed, carbon fibre, full suspension bikes that are stronger and lighter than the bikes we rode ten years ago is because that system works.

I'm off fro a curry now.. My rant has delayed me setting off to pick it up. It's going to be ready in 15 minutes and it's half an hour away. My girlfriend placed the order 20 minutes ago. I'm going to be in trouble now when I turn up with a cold bag of curry... and it's all cos you made me rant 🙂

The interesting thing surely is that by putting that sticky up at the top of the forum, Mark is practically inviting you to use google and find the pics yourself (tempted at this point to post a tinyurl link to lmgtfy with the relevant terms, but don't want to push my luck!) See he's not that much different from us - just that he has valid reasons not to upset people in big companies who effectively make the rules on stuff like this.

Hang on a minute! Is this not still mid January 2010? It gets earlier every year

There are no conspiracies or coverups or back handers to journalists in brown envelopes

<whisper>what kind of curry have you got?</whisper>

How do you think it works?

that's a very passive stance - isn't your position to represent our needs? If you kowtow to the manufacturers you abandon your independence and become their lickspittle creature. I couldn't care less about the industry's latest hornschwoggle, I'm more interested in what works and lasts and is affordable to most riders. XT = extra-overpriced tat, XTR = extra extra overpriced tat

The industry makes cool stuff.

and isn't that for kiddies ? I want to ride a bike, week in, week out, year in, year out. I only look at it when it needs fixing ie much oftener than I'd like. It's just a me-powered vehicle.

There are no conspiracies or coverups or back handers to journalists in brown envelopes

I wasn't suggesting or even thinking that - it was far more blatant "we have to toe the line or we get sidelined" - straightforward qui pro quo.

Well how late do you think Shimano can leave it to show the bits to companies to put on their 2011 model year bikes? Given they need time to decide the spec., get production in place, sell their product to dealers etc. there's not an insignificant lead time there.

This isn't about making the companies aware, shimano are upset that some pics leaked out before the full public press release in a few weeks time (according to Mark).

anyway, he's off for his curry, somebody get the pics out then hide them again in about an hour 😉

anyone have an idea of prices yet?

the reason you are riding nine speed, carbon fibre, full suspension bikes that are stronger and lighter than the bikes we rode ten years ago is because that system works

nine speed = at least 2 ratios more than justified, and not my choice but availability
carbon = expensive, ally will do thanks
full suss = too much trouble

I wasn't suggesting or even thinking that - it was far more blatant "we have to toe the line or we get sidelined"

So what are you suggesting they do exactly? Honestly, it's not as if there is a single person out there who [i]needs[/i] to see the pics, so why does it matter? This is a new level of preciousness.

anyone have an idea of prices yet?

Bound to be pretty cheap I imagine.

It's going to be ready in 15 minutes and it's half an hour away

now can we argue about sustainable eating ?

Honestly, it's not as if there is a single person out there who needs to see the pics, so why does it matter? This is a new level of preciousness.

I'm saying it's fair enough that ST doesn't post the pics intentionally, but to stifle discussion as "If you want to discuss Shimano 2011 and look at leaked pictures" seemed to suggest is another matter. I've already said I don't care about the pics, and it's acceptable for the moderators to control bad manners and so forth on the forum, but extending that to preventing debate on bike related matters in the hope of minor favours from manufacturers looks like a step too far...

An hour round trip to get a curry? Better be good!

💡 Maybe shimano are buying him the curry.

think you've flogged this dead horse back to life Barnes
well done

What tyres for 2011 XTR?

How was the curry Mark?

sfb, you either care about the "new stuff" game or you don't. Which is it?

I play bit of brickbreaker on my phone when I'm bored on the train. I quite like it, but not enough that I'd buy another version just because it was new.

What I didn't do today was spend hours on an gaming magazine's internet forum complaining to the administrators about how they're compromising their journalistic integrity by respecting Sony's stipulations about publicity of MegaBastard 4.

This isn't about making the companies aware, shimano are upset that some pics leaked out before the full public press release in a few weeks time (according to Mark).

Oh sweet jesus. Barnes yer a whinging twunt.

Cast your mind back to the ST Shimano headquarters jolly when they said they were shown cool stuff but couldn't tell you about it. Well lets guess was it 10 speed by any chance? Well tickle my arse with a feather...

So maybe [i]thats[/i] why they dont want to rock the boat.

Lets face it in order to get the stuff to test they need to at least keep in sufficiently with the MAJOR players FFS. Or they could piss them off and have to buy it same time as everybody else.

We do not live in some utopian dreamworld. This is how it is in the big bad world.
🙄

Clearly he was in a lot of trouble for his cold curry...

sfb, you either care about the "new stuff" game or you don't. Which is it?

I think I've already said I don't

Well lets guess was it 10 speed by any chance? Well tickle my arse with a feather...

I cannot imagine any advantage to that, off road. 7 or 8 was fine, and I suspect going to 89 with a narrower chain just invited faster wear for no benefit to regular, non racing riders whatever 🙁

Lets face it in order to get the stuff to test they need to at least keep in sufficiently with the MAJOR players FFS. Or they could piss them off and have to buy it same time as everybody else.

would that be so bad ?

We do not live in some utopian dreamworld.

and my attitude is entirely pragmatic, I don't want flash kit, I want functional, and I'd like it to stay functional a long time - oh, I see what you mean, that [b]is[/b] a dreamworld 🙁

[i]Clearly he was in a lot of trouble for his cold curry... [/i]

Or it was so good he's savouring it...

I cannot imagine any advantage to that, off road.

sfb, you either care about the "new stuff" game or you don't. Which is it?
I think I've already said I don't

And yet you're still here, complaining about marketing of stuff you'll never buy.

I don't want flash kit, I want functional, and I'd like it to stay functional a long time

And there are still companies making square taper stuff for if and when yours gives up the ghost.

And it seems to me that you're not really annoyed at Shimano or STW, you're annoyed about the human race in general and at capitalism for exploiting its fickle, magpie tendencies.

It's Simon. Unless you agree with him entirely, he will argue with you. If you agree with him entirely he will change his stance until you don't. He doesn't give a toss about Shimano's 2011 groupset or Mark's access to information, he just wants to argue the toss without anybody else's reality impinging on his views. He's very, very good at it. 😀

Are we allowed to show pics of 2011 Deore? 'cos lets face it, that is what most of us ride on.... 😛