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It's a bit like someone posting a link to a website where you can download a leaked version of the next Girls Aloud album before it's been officially released
but you cannot download a bike component, so it's not the same at all, and, to the extent that people hold off buying things due to next year's changes, surely this is a relatively small effect, essentially engineered by the manufacturers themselves by their production scheduling, and only a delay in spending rather than actual reduced turnover ?
[edit] ooops on 2001 🙂
I don't think the 2001 product is under embargo now.
I presume they might argue that if the goods are not on general or press release that any images of them are copyright as the product itself is not in the public domain. I think there must be some busy media/legal guys at Shimano chasing internet threads over the world trying to put these images out.
I think there must be some busy media/legal guys at Shimano chasing internet threads over the world trying to put these images out.
fat chance of success...
it's not copyright they're worried about but delayed sales caused by their own scheduling
If the pics I've seen online are legit the new XTR does look bloomin lovely.
All this "embargo" and leaking pics stuff is surely just marketing really - helps to hype the product before release.
True Simon but this is a simple case of the industry looking after it's industry and possible themselves. What if Shimano got that pissed off at publishers who used these images that they decided to boycott them from previews and tests.
Media embargoes are commonplace on new products in all areas
just 'found' some piccys of XTR and X0, loooks sweeet 8)
Media embargoes are commonplace on new products in all areas
and your point is ? I think once the cat is out of the bag it can't be stuffed back in, and we all know there'll be new kit every year...
Yes, Simon that may be so but there seems little point in the media making the problem any worse. It may well be out on the internet and in the public domain but that doesn't mean the entire public has seen it. The cat can be in the bag or out of the bag but also at many points in between the two.
a quick google search will find it though!
if the cat is in the bag and you haven't opened the bag is it dead or alive
or both
😯
I think at the minute the cat is miaowing very loudly in protest after being let out and stuffed quickly back in said bag so many times in quick sucession, trying to draw attention to it's mistreatment!
🙂
oooo oooo I must rail aginst injustice
:fap fap fap:
exactly as I said, embargoes are commonplace, if I had anything else to add I would 😀and your point is ?
only need to say it once
It may well be out on the internet and in the public domain but that doesn't mean the entire public has seen it
so what they're saying is they'd rather people spent now and were upset when new spangly bits come out a bit later in the year and ideally bought again ?
This is all very theoretical to me, as I only buy bike parts when the old ones breaks and I have to have them [b]now[/b], though I'll admit to creep on cameras...
It's a bit like someone posting a link to a website where you can download a leaked version of the next Girls Aloud album before it's been officially released
More like someone posting an image of the cover of the next Girls Aloud album on the net before it's been officially released. An album that everyone knows is likely to come out next year and can guess roughly what it will sound like.
Schroedinger's Derailleur?
I'd actually come down on the side of the Barnes in this case. It's all very well saying that the images are copyright, but if people are only "leaking" them so that they can be discussed by people who will more than likely be buying some of said kit, surely that's fair dealing?
It seems to boil down to a mix of not giving the public enough credit, and the bike industry's retarded obsession with model years, and the idea that one year's stuff is - supposedly - an improvement on the last. 🙂
I'm concerned about the cat. Has anyone been feeding it whilst it's been in and out of the bag?
The new xtr, peeking out of the bag.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Really wish i had not posted it now, sorry Mark and everyone else at STW, i didnt think....
I'm mighty unimpressed as I can't find any images using Google...I'm feeling seriously let down by this whole affair...thank god I'm not needing to spend cash on new parts for the moment!
Trev, It's not your fault at all. You simply posted images that were on the web. The issue is an industry one - we are part of the industry, as are all mags and websites that earn part of their revenue from the industry. It is certainly not the fault of anyone who simply found pictures and reposted them. That's the internet. That's how it works and the industry has to work around it.... somehow.
Its like when Frankies Relax got banned, everyone wanted gay sex all of a sudden.
not sure that i'm with you on that one scruff
Some special agent you are Dick! I found 'em in a jiffy.
That said it helps if you search the web as opposed to images.
Must say I like the look of it. Guess thats partly why Madison are doing deals on them at the moment?
Shimano own the pics and if they tell ST to remove them from their website then they legally have to.
I've just googled 2011 xtr and the cranks seem to be lovely. I still think I'll end up using roadie stuff as it's much cheaper, so only the shifters needed. Oh, and a Middleburn-made set of chainrings.
lol @ CaptainFlashheart
I just googled it and came up with a picture of [i]my[/i] '98 XTR Pace RC200 - Weird
What a load of PR ballcocks! I'm with SFB on this one - add to that I'm still using a '95 vintage XTR 8sp rear mech (in proper XTR grey, none of this black and silver rubbish) on a 9-speed XT setup demonstrates you don't always need the latest and greatest...
you cant be sur off the state to the cat. Unless you kick the cat.
LOL gay sex.
cum, again?
Who owns the images?
Who has the right to tell any one using those images to stop using them?
We don't use images in the mag or on the site without permission.
If images are posted on the forum and the owner of the images asks us to remove them as they were posted without permission then we remove them. We always have done. There are many members of this forum who have made that request and we have complied with it.
It's really that simple.
We are not like The Sun. We don't sneak images of bike products and rush it to the web when the owners of the images don't want us to. It's just bikes! We aren't going to reveal conspiracies or save lives by posting leaked images. It won't even sell extra copies of the mag! So, just hang on a few weeks and we'll have the information and loads more pictures. That's the way it works.
Who has the right to tell any one using those images to stop using them?
Not wishing to be petty, but surely the website HOSTING the image is the one that's using it? All images posted are only hotlinked from a host site aren't they?
can you post links to the images?
Its an interesting discussion
The thought that crossed my mind is that the motorcycle mags are always trying to sneek peek, first glimpse pictures of new bikes, MCN is always doing it. I'm not an industry insider but from the outside they seem to do well from it. Surely the cycling media is there to provide information that people want to know about because then they will sell it and advertising space around it.
Its obvious that people are googling the images and ending up at sites that have the info. Surely this is what journalism is, finding out stuff and then telling people about it
Its all good hype this though, the marketing guys and shimano must be smiling into they coffee mugs
All images posted are only hotlinked from a host site aren't they?
good point 🙂
[i]Surely this is what journalism is, finding out stuff and then telling people about it[/i]
This is not a slur on Singletrack, but I don't think the magazine, or indeed many hobby magazines, can be described as doing "journalism" in this way. They "find out stuff" because they are told by PR and marketing people, and they write it down. If they're a bit sceptical about something they'll render it as "Spesh claim a 114% increase in torsional rigidity" rather than "this delivers a 114% increase in torsional rigidity", but writing a hobby magazine for bike enthusiasts is not really an exercise in uncovering truth.
That being the case (and it isn't a problem really) I'm content for them to play by whatever rules they need to play by to get the magazine and website the information they need in the future. The biggest component maker around can presumably affect whether they ahve anything interesting to write much more reliably by choking off their information than they can by searching for new and unauthorised sources.
And when all's said and done, nothing turns on it. 🙂
The thought that crossed my mind is that the motorcycle mags are always trying to sneek peek, first glimpse pictures of new bikes, MCN is always doing it. I'm not an industry insider but from the outside they seem to do well from it. Surely the cycling media is there to provide information that people want to know about because then they will sell it and advertising space around it.
But the pics we're talking about were taken by Shimano, not ST or a freelancer.
Bicycle mags do sometimes carry prototype pix from bike races though.
But the pics we're talking about were taken by Shimano, not ST or a freelancer.Bicycle mags do sometimes carry prototype pix from bike races though
I can see that. What would the sketch be if someone took photos of the photos, who owns the image then.
At the end of the day if shimano have let images get onto the internet that they didn't want in the public domain then more fool them. By putting the 'statement' up as a sticky on the top of the forum stw have actually increased the hype about them. I wouldn't be posting here if the sticky hadn't raised my curiosity and now I'll go looking for the picture even though there will be little of interest in them for me tbh, its just made me curious.
Either someone in a PR department somewhere is being a bit dim or quite clever. I wonder which
Well, I didn't care until I saw the word 'embargo' at which point I googled shimanio 2011 leak and clicked on the first link. Then I remembered I didn't care again.
So, just hang on a few weeks and we'll have the information and loads more pictures. That's the way it works.
Hang on a minute! Is this not still mid January 2010? It gets earlier every year 🙄