[Closed] Saved myself £1000+ yesterday, rode a HT...

No, I'm not trolling...

He says, from under a bridge, with a mouth full of billy goat...

😆

Honestly... I've been debating a new HT for the local XC stuff for a while now, just moving house so not pulled the plug yet.

I was slightly concerned a few weeks ago listening to a mates reaction on a local XC ride of "ooh, ahh.. eeek"... But put that down to him being a bit of a girls blouse.

Could it be that other people are better riders and fitter and enjoy the directness and challenge of a Ht?

Different bike in different ride shocker!

I love my FS for the 'bigger' stuff, but once riding the ht on local trails,I can see the FS not really getting used that much now...

I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong...just that one of there joys of biking/bikes is that a trail you are 'used to' becomes a different beast on another bike....try riding local on stuff on a CX bike to see what I mean!

DrP

tomd - Member

Could it be that other people are better riders and fitter and enjoy the directness and challenge of a Ht?

I'm sure that some are, however based upon my riding, it's certainly not all of them. I'm reasonably fit (in a relative context) and not a terrible rider by any means.

Challenge ? WTF, it's supposed to be enjoyment isn't it ? I accepted when I was XC racing there's a challenge, hence having a light 29er HT at that time, but really, 'directness' what on earth is that all about ? Let me guess 'feeling the trail' yeah ? Why do I want to feel the trail, I can see the rocks and roots, doesn't mean I want to be mullered by them every yard I ride

try riding local on stuff on a CX bike to see what I mean!

It's likely to be my plan mate, although how much trails i'll do I'm not yet sure, but there's a CAAD in PAulsCycles for not too much money and I still want a winter trainer bike, as I say, I assumed it would be a HT, but I will more than likely get a nice CX bike which then means i'll be able to do the odd commute on it a little easier.

I've just built up a new hardtail (joins the 160mm 26" FS, 26" rigid and 29" rigid) and I'm kind of in a different position. Not exactly why FS but certainly enjoying more a lot of the trails which recently have felt a little dull or given my shoulders and wrists too much of a hammering!

On some trails a full sus just makes it all a bit dull, sit down and pedal then rinse and repeat. Hardtail or rigid improves your fitness and skills a bit more, not ridden suspension of any sort for about a year now, Fatty it's the future.

On some trails a full sus just makes it all a bit dull, sit down and pedal then rinse and repeat

I can see that, but surely you then ride them trails harder and faster ? you jump off/over more stuff, find harder stuff on the particular trails to challenge yourself ?

I'm not sure how it improves your riding though, sure, it makes you think more, makes you pick lines differently and arguably requires more of your attention to details.. but not sure how that makes you 'better' as such in all honesty.

If you were faster than riding your mates hardtail than he was on your fs bike? That's one reason hardtails are so much fun.

I tend to take the view 'it's all bikes' and ride whichever one I feel like on any given day.

I have as much fun and enjoyment riding my rigid singlespeed as I do my 140mm FS. There's certainly more challenge with the former, particularly on trails I know well.

People ride for all sorts of reasons, if you've found your 'the one' bike that's great but diversity of choice is good too.

If you were faster than riding your mates hardtail than he was on your fs bike? That's one reason hardtails are so much fun

I was slightly quicker against my comparable mate when I was on the FS, but a lot of that would be that I'm more used to and more at home on my own bike. But, overall the difference wasn't massive in terms of outright speed. But on the LAbrinyth I was deffo a chunk slower on the HT.

The bloke who's HT I was on is fairly new to the sport, so doesn't really come into the equation of me being faster than.

Pretty much the exact opposite happened to me yesterday. Went out with 3 others and I took my FS and they were all on HTs. After about an hour I was just wishing I'd bought my HT instead. I can't really say why, the FS was fine but I missed the HT.

I do, however, have n+1 coursing through my veins!

Hard tails are cheaper, require less maintenance, are lighter and more direct - perhaps for some people and the type of riding they do, that's reason enough?

rudedog - Member

Hard tails are cheaper, require less maintenance, are lighter and more direct - perhaps for some people and the type of riding they do, that's reason enough?

Yes, yes, yes, yes... I dunno. I'm only basing this on my personal experience, I can't really comment for everyone elses experience. Was just some random observations after a day out riding.

The most fun I have had at Swinley was on a 29er hardtail singlespeed, perfect venue for that.

"But still comes with the same problem of being hellishly uncomfortable."

your riding the wrong hardtail AND your doing it wrong..

Yes, yes, yes, yes... I dunno. I'm only basing this on my personal experience, I can't really comment for everyone elses experience. Was just some random observations after a day out riding.

Exactly - youve found that a full suss is the right bike for you - however, other people are different...

Yawn
As has already been said to death - different bikes for different needs.

For me - full suss if for when the emphasis is on superb, gnarly DH oriented stuff... where winching to the top is all that's required in terms of peddling and the fun is when you point the bike downwards (i.e Stile Cop yesterday)

Lightweight hard tail for my local trails where there is a bit less tech and more distance to cover. Here the emphasis is on chilling, fitness etc. Even more so when I decide to ride to the trails instead of driving.

Sounds like the OP is a few bikes short

Get yourself an electric bike for Swinley. Then you don't even have to bother to pedal.

[i] It's all about fun and comfort,[/i]

I've ridden nothing but HTs some are more comfy than others, but its all relative
I guess, if your normal ride is a FS I could imagine that any HT is going to be a wake up.

Hard tails are for folk on benefits !!!

But what sized wheels were on your mates bike OP? 🙂

Swinley on a FS bike? 😆
Swinley is so groomed! I love riding a HT there because it's all so smooth. I think it's a lot more fun than an FS bike because you can pump, jump, manual more etc. Unless its a short travel XC FS bike it's overkill. Why ride a sofa on trails no more rough than a canal path?

Hard tails are for folk on benefits !!!

You are clearly unaware of the generous nature of the UK benefit system.

Am I missing something? How are you saving £1000+? If you were planning on purchasing a ht and you're now not cos yer mates £500 was crap then I would suggest riding a lightweight, 120mm+, dropper equipped ht like a soul, hummer etc and then re assess.

Oh, and what trail rat said

I moved from hardtail to FS and swore I'd never go back but recently swapped to hardtail while getting the FS serviced and must say I've enjoyed the directness of the power delivery and for trail centers it's not made a difference to my enjoyment at all.

Bigger rides the comfort of the FS does help but you just have to learn to ride the HT slightly differently and spend a little more time off the saddle.

Every time I ride my single speed rigid bike on my local trails I think "this is the perfect bike for this". Every time I ride the same trails on my full susser I think "this bike is even more perfect" 😆

I think perhaps the biggest HT advantage is simply one of "spec per £" and "lb per £"! I.e. a 1000 quid HT is light, and has nice bits on it. An equivalently priced FS bike isn't either of those things.....

I also like the simplicity of my HT, especially in winter, when riding in 3 foot of gloop. No linkages or shocks or what ever to worry about. Get on, pedal. Job done 😉

I'm having a similar internal discussion, but coming from the other direction.

I've got a (26") Five. It's versatile, comfortable and fun. But I built up an FF29 in order to do an event that had a bit of gently (mostly uphill) trails and lots of road riding. While the FF29 was perfect for the event, for general trail riding I was coming to the same conclusion as the OP. I could ride anything that I rode on the Five on the FF29, but why would I?

Then I saw a Solaris frame going second hand so decided to give that a go. To be honest I expected to just end up with a slightly heavier, less efficient version of the FF29 and that would be the end of my HT experiment. In fact, it's totally different and I've been amazed at just how capable and fun it is. OK, I've only ridden it 7 times so far, for a total of 12 hours, so it could just be a honeymoon effect, but I'm starting to wonder whether there is any point to the Five. OK, it is probably capable of bigger stuff than the Solaris, but that's stuff that I'll never have the nerve to do anyway.

I'll end with a gratuitous shot of the Solaris up on Corriehabbie at the weekend. I picked this ride to try and show up some of the weaknesses of the Solaris, as there is lots of pedalling over lumpy ground, where I expected to miss the full suss, but really didn't.

I guess it just goes to show (as others have said) that there are HTs and there are HTs.

[img] [/img]

The HT had good traction up hill

The one thing that my FS does better than any rigid or HT I've owned is climb. The steeper and looser the greater the benefit of FS

Challenge ? WTF, it's supposed to be enjoyment isn't it ?

Some people actually enjoy a challenge 🙂

For about two years I rode a Meta 5 for everything, and then last summer I built an On One Inbred up. Rigid, Singlespeed (initially), 29er. I'd had a hard tail before the Meta, but had forgotten what it was like riding one. To be honest, I was so new to the world of mountain bikes when I got the Meta that it was probably subbing-out my skills more than anything.

The on-one is silly fast compared to the Meta in the flat and climbs. Initially, it hurt my wrists riding it hard, but this has eased as my skill as improved. I have a tendency to forget I'm riding that and not my old Meta when I hit descents, despite there Meta bing stolen last November. The result is I'm actually pretty bloody fast on the descents on it now too, faster than the Meta even.

What I'm trying to say (I think) is over the last few years I've realised the bike only plays a small part in the overall picture. It's more the rider than the bike, but [i]the most important thing[/i] is bike fit. Not just in terms of all day comfort, but in terms of being able to distribute your weight properly over the bike.

After this experience, I can honestly say that I can't see myself going back to full-suss in the foreseeable future. A hardcore-hardtail is on my radar though.

Then I saw a Solaris frame going second hand so decided to give that a go. To be honest I expected to just end up with a slightly heavier, less efficient version of the FF29 and that would be the end of my HT experiment. In fact, it's totally different and I've been amazed at just how capable and fun it is. OK, I've only ridden it 7 times so far, for a total of 12 hours, so it could just be a honeymoon effect, but I'm starting to wonder whether there is any point to the Five. OK, it is probably capable of bigger stuff than the Solaris, but that's stuff that I'll never have the nerve to do anyway.

This is another reason why I probably won't ever go back to a full-suss, too. Steel hard-tails for me now, I think.

The cost and hassle of owning a full-suss dissuade me from ever buying one. I can own, maintain and ride a really good hardtail for a lot less than an equivalent specced full-suss. I can ride pretty much anything but world cup style downhill runs (though I'd probably manage most of it bar the huge rock gardens and massive jumps/gaps). Having started mountain biking on fully rigid bikes with cantilever brakes and ludicrous geometry, my slack(ish) 29er with 120mm of travel and big 2.35" tyres is incredibly plush.

Then I saw a Solaris frame going second hand so decided to give that a go. To be honest I expected to just end up with a slightly heavier, less efficient version of the FF29 and that would be the end of my HT experiment. In fact, it's totally different and I've been amazed at just how capable and fun it is.

Same here. I bought a Solaris last autumn with the aim of preserving my Ibis Mojo from the worst of a Peak District winter. I haven't ridden the mojo since, and I'm not sure when I will again.

Also on the point of HT vs FS, I've always found everything perfectly rideable on either, it's a just a case of the FS being faster and requiring less thought/concentration. Personally my favourite type of riding is picking my way down steep techy terrain and I find a HT much more fun for that. But if going fast in a straight line is your aim then a FS is obviously the better option.

I always seem to get trail focused full sus, they've been great on loose uphills, but never a patch on standing on the front end of a hardtail sprinting. I did ride an Epic and really like the efficient feeling stood up, it's a lot of money and extra weight to blow on such a fairly minor change though.

Fully rigid with bigger tyres was my favourite, got used to riding everything I ride now on my full sus. Really need to build that bike up again 🙁

Dunno, I'm back on a hardtail for now and I love it but can't wait to get back on a fs still. Love being able to have the confidence to smash the **** out of everything on a fs.

sold my FS (Devinci Dixon) in 2012, bought a 29'er hardtail and not missed the FS since?

(owned about 20 different FS bikes from 2002-2012)

Its about getting the right bike for your riding needs, simple as that really?

This is my current ride, its very quick and light, yet surprisingly comfortable considering its only a hardtail

[img] [/img]

certainly a much easier bike to own during wet weather with minimal maintenance required

most important? Its actually fun to ride where my FS bikes blunted the trails and made everything too easy

It's not always about the bike.
How many riders do you see that can't ride light ?
FS or HT ,some people just ride like a sack of spuds. 😉

Was out on Saturday morning with trail_rat, took my hardtail as my full sus needs some work but what a blast some of the local trails are round Scolty on a hardtail.

...you CAN do everything on a HT

You can do most things at Swinley on a Boris bike 😉

Have a 26" SS HT as THE mtb. I like SS but can see how it holds me back a bit when I race. But I really only want one bike for all my riding. Whenever I borrow Teen1's Trance, it just feels soggy compared with the HT. Fast when you point it downwards, but soggy.

Maybe a short travel 29er is the one, maybe a VERY short travel (carbon seatpost ~0.5cm).

s'all bikes so all good.

Puts weeksy on the list of people who rely on springs, not skills, to get down a trail.

I'd wheelie all over you on my Alpine.....

Fähigkeiten statt Federweg.....

LOL, I DID all of it on the cheap HT, I didn't die, didn't crash, didn't have any issues. The fact you can do something, doesn't mean you have to.

I can motorbike to work in the rain... but I take the Mondeo 🙂

weeksy - Member

However, why in Gods name would you want to... I mean, really ? Unless racing, finite speed is completely irrelevant isn't it ? It's all about fun and comfort

Comfort aside, all this is exactly why I have a bad-ass hardtail. Generally goes slower, can be more fun. Mostly it's just different. Bikes are ace!

Every time I ride my single speed rigid bike on my local trails I think "this is the perfect bike for this". Every time I ride the same trails on my full susser I think "this bike is even more perfect"

Basically this for me. A rigid SS is remarkably competent unless you are wanting to climb several thousand meters up 20% gradients every day. Going full sus to rigid singlespeed isn't too daunting. Going rigid singlespeed to full sus is more relaxing and makes a bit more sense for riding faster but is less engaging.

Basically, all bikes are awesome. Buy the one that fits best and it most practical to live with. 😀

Went over to a SS steel 29er several years ago.
Twice since then I've convinced myself that I needed a FS bike in my life. And twice I've built up FS bikes to test this theory. 🙂

Both got stripped & sold after 2 or 3 rides.
Missed the HT too much, each time I rode the FS bikes.

wwaswas - Member
I tend to take the view 'it's all bikes' and ride whichever one I feel like on any given day.
I have as much fun and enjoyment riding my rigid singlespeed as I do my 140mm FS. There's certainly more challenge with the former, particularly on trails I know well.
People ride for all sorts of reasons, if you've found your 'the one' bike that's great but diversity of choice is good too.

Same here.

I'm lucky in having both options but think that it's too quick a judgement to do one ride on a £500 HT to dismiss HT as an option all together. If I have ridden the FS for a while and go back to the HT it takes me a week or so to get used to it again and to get the best out of it (or it to get the best out of me). It's more involving on the trails and that way more fun & if I'm riding it right it's not at all uncomfortable. When I look at the mileage at the end of the year it's normally done twice that of the FS.

why do I feel the need to reply to these posts?

Anyway,

out of 9 ish 'proper' MTBs I've owned, only one has been a FS. A Spesh Enduro. A very posh bike.

The reason I went back to hard tails is that speed / excitement are relative. Using a car analogy, go-karts at 30mph feel very fast. Short wheelbase, sharp handling, lack of fancy suspension and your arse 1" off the ground. A Mini at 50 on B roads feels bloomin' fast too, for similar reasons. A Ferrari, Lambo. et al at 90mph on the motorway would, I assume, get boring.

Battering (and that certainly describes my style of riding) my way through roots, mud, rocks etc on a hard tail is more challenging, more difficult and more fun. At a slower speed than I could on a full on DH bike, I'm riding on the edge (my edge, not the bike's) and I love every minute of it.

It's closer to what got me into riding in the first place decades ago with terrible geometry, awful suspension (once it arrived), bad brakes, shifting, tires... each ride was an adventure. My favourite ever ride was a night ride with lights that would barely be good enough for a commute by today's standards. We had to drag our bikes for 1/3 of the ride as the gears were mudded-solid but it was fantastic! Even limping home where the v brakes had worn the braking surface so badly, the sidewall of the rim popped off was exciting.

Easier ? better

Was it not laterally stiff yet vertically compliant?

It's closer to what got me into riding in the first place decades ago with terrible geometry, awful suspension (once it arrived), bad brakes, shifting, tires... each ride was an adventure. My favourite ever ride was a night ride with lights that would barely be good enough for a commute by today's standards. We had to drag our bikes for 1/3 of the ride as the gears were mudded-solid but it was fantastic! Even limping home where the v brakes had worn the braking surface so badly, the sidewall of the rim popped off was exciting.

You are making me feel nostalgic!

Hardtails and rigid bikes have their place but for me nothing beats the pure video-game style silliness of just pointing your full suss bike down something steep and rocky and letting it do it's thing.

I've ridden a hardtail down most of the stuff I ride now so it's not a case of not being able to do it.

Can't help feeling some of you are trying to artificially inject some excitement into your dull trails. 😛

I'd happily ride a HT (if I had one) at most trail centres though.

I think it depends on the HT. I hated them for all the same reasons a year or 2 ago, but went an bought a second hand Ti hardtail and its a revelation, nothing like as harsh and uncomforatble to ride than previous ones I have tried

Agree with the OP 100%. I have fully rigid and HT but virtually every time I ride one of them I wish I was on the FS. It's not that I don't like a challenge or different styles but as I ride FS most of the time I find getting bounced around on the saddle an unnessesary chore. Rigid/HT are for pub trips, booze runs or canals these days for me.

Mate of mine got caught up in the whole HT's as fashion items a few years back and chopped in his FS. He's just switched back and admits he missed FS on most rides.

grum - Member

Can't help feeling some of you are trying to artificially inject some excitement into your dull trails

That's definitely what it feels like, enduro racing and rattling it down the world cup route 😉

Apart from the pumptrack you couldn't pay me to ride a hardtail, or fun hater as they're known around here.

I've got both and enjoy riding both but I do find once I start to tire, I find it harder to maintain speed on the hardtail than on the bouncy big. The big thing for me though is the bouncy bike generates much more traction on climbs which is great when they're a bit loose.

I went from FS to HT a couple of months ago when I dismantled my El Guapo and built up an Evil Soveriegn.I will be the first to admit that it's not as fast or smooth in tech situations (I live in the Peaks) but it is way more FUN! In my mind this is what biking is all about and I may never own another FS.As for being cheaper I'm not so sure as it has got me eyeing up Shans ECt.

1. it's swinley, if you found it uncomfortable there, you've no hope anywhere else.
2. are you a sit in the saddle spinning away 99% of the type of person?
3. me personally, something like a stanton slackline is the most fun type of bike at swinley, well most trail centres, fast through the turns, makes the most of every lump for gaps along the way, good for getting the power down, maybe plenty of cheeky power wheelies and manuals, perfect.

Whatever floats your boat though, it is only bikes.

Wheel size is more important than suspension

deanfbm - Member

1. it's swinley, if you found it uncomfortable there, you've no hope anywhere else.
2. are you a sit in the saddle spinning away 99% of the type of person?
3. me personally, something like a stanton slackline is the most fun type of bike at swinley, well most trail centres, fast through the turns, makes the most of every lump for gaps along the way, good for getting the power down, maybe plenty of cheeky power wheelies and manuals, perfect.

Whatever floats your boat though, it is only bikes.

I'm not always a sit in and spin, although since moving to FS's a few years back I admit I am a more sit and spin kind of rider. When on the HT (650B by the way) at the weekend I did spent a large majority of the sections standing up, simply because they're horrible sitting down.

I've ridden hardtails at Afan, Cwmcarn etc, but I'd forgotten just how horrific and clattery they are.

They do wheelie/manual/jump I guess better, but part of that is that my AM is a bit of a tank lol.