[Closed] Santa Cruz Hightower

Hmm - looks liek it was taken down. More Embargo fun

There's a thread - and photos - on mtbr (if you're quick.....)

From MTBR:
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135mm rear travel, 67* HTA, 433 CS, frame 5.9 lbs. No FD. Boost. 29/27.5+. Reach is 450mm on a large! STA 74.3*. WB on a large is 1187.

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if it's embargo'd then it's best not to post links as it gets everyone in trouble

Pinkbike link is live.

Meh, was hoping for something pushing the boundaries but its just the same as everyone else's 2016 bikes.

I'll be keen to see a test report & how it compares to a Evil Following, just built a new bronson that now might be up for sale Dam.....

It's up now...

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/the-hightower-santacruz-launches-new-29in27-5-bike/

Nice one Barney, really, really like the look of that matte black / mint version. Going to be putting a few extra pennies in my bike fund jar...! 😉

Too steep and too short

That looks lovely. I'd be interested in a 120mm version.

I've been waiting for this bike...would also rather a 115/120mm version but I may be tempted anyway! could make my Nomad fairly redundant though

thepodge - Member
Too steep and too short

Size up and fit and angleset? Fairly sweeping statement before you've ridden it don't you think?

hughjayteens - Size up and fit and angleset? Fairly sweeping statement before you've ridden it don't you think?

If I'm spending 4-6k on a bike, I shouldn't have to buy one that is too big for me and then spend money on making it better right out of the box.

If I'm spending 4-6k on a bike, I shouldn't have to buy one that is too big for me and then spend money on making it better right out of the box.

I'm just under the average height for a UK male but to get a nice roomy front end with a short stem I'd need to get a large, surely the average should be on a medium, larger then average is Large, smaller than average is small.

Thing is if I get a large frame I then struggle to fit a reverb because the seat post is too long. Admittedly in this case I might get 10mm of adjustment.

Plus if they are saying that shorter people should be on shorter wheels how short do you have to be if people at 5:9 / 5:10 are buying large 29er?

I think with both this and the new Orange 4 I was hoping that they would be a but of a revolution not a 3mm evolution.

Honestly why get hung up on a word? So you can fit a reverb but only have another 10mm of adjustment? Do you need more?

Plus if they are saying that shorter people should be on shorter wheels how short do you have to be if people at 5:9 / 5:10 are buying large 29er?

and being 5'9 I'd always consider being top end Medium frames and probably OK for a large depending on the brand

mikewsmith - are they saying that

Pinkbike Review - due to the fact that Santa Cruz's designers felt that smaller riders would be better suited to a bike with 27.5" wheels, like the 5010 or Juliana Furtado.

Yes, yes they are

ah fair enough that one getting trotted out again...

Another completely average over priced effort from Santa Cruz.

Size up and fit and angleset? Fairly sweeping statement before you've ridden it don't you think?

For the amount they charge I would like them to get it right out of the box rather than having to start modifying it.

Pinkbike Review - due to the fact that Santa Cruz's designers felt that smaller riders would be better suited to a bike with 27.5" wheels, like the 5010 or Juliana Furtado.

Given that they are the same bike, just with different stickers on them then you they are only giving 1 suggestion in reality

Mr Podge, it's not just about height, it's personal preference and body proportions too, bike fit is very individual. The bikes you mention might not fit you in the way you want them to, but why don't you try them and then decide, then if you aren't happy just choose another bike- or go custom, if standard sizes don't fit you. The Hightower and 4 will suit many riders...

chrismac
For the amount they charge I would like them to get it right out of the box rather than having to start modifying it.

Given all you have seen is a pic and a geo cahrt why not ride one and then report back, you know what you think you know but have no real idea how the bike will ride or feel just what some numbers and the internet tosses off over.

You can make a good estimate of if a frame will suit you or not from the numbers, no one has the time to try every single bike so the only option is to whittle the choice down to a realistic number by using the charts provided.

People do indeed come in different shapes and sizes but I'm very average in my averageness and so expect to fit an average bike.

This bike, much like every other bike released in the last few years is supposedly long, low and slack, which it is if you compare it to the last model, but then the last model was long low and slack compared to the model before that and pretty much everyone is changing at the same speed so the LLS phrase doesn't really mean anything unless it is genuinely when looking at similar bikes.

When I see LLS, I expect LLS, not predictably different in the same ways that everything else is predictably different.

thepodge - why not fabricate your own 59 degree headangle gnarr machine if that's what you think you need? Clearly the bike industry is moving too slowly for you...! 😉

Its not moving too slow, its advertising its self too boldly.

What size do you reckon this guy would need?

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and with such a short rear end, how far behind the rear axle would he be sitting?

The bloke on the right is 6'1"

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thepodge - Member

When I see LLS, I expect LLS, not predictably different in the same ways that everything else is predictably different.

But if their new bike was described as having normal geometry, then people may not realise that they mean new normal, not old normal. The people don't want old normal.

Joking aside and with genuine interest, is there a 29er you comparing new normal to that is long, low and slack?

I think it looks awful. The rear triangle and seat tube layout makes it look like it's back is broken. Sure this isn't another one of the new Elsworth designs?

i like it. Too much money for me though.

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Nice and light with the new style linkages and a bottle cage and BSA BB. Lovely.

What's not to like. Not sure what people are on about regarding the aesthetics. Looks like a pretty run of the mill generic bike to me - they are all looking pretty similar these days - no bad thing I personally like it, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. How are people thinking it's too short? The reports i've read on it so far seem to suggest it's quite long to make it a better pedalling platform.

Feels fairly long to me. It's not Mondraker long, for sure, but it's a good 40mm longer in reach than the Tallboy LT...
But what would I know? 😉

I'm liking it looks wise but not price wise. Out of interest podge what bike do you ride?

For me, it's a couple of things. I think the bottom bracket area looks odd, the way the down tube curves into it giving that horizontal bit, doesn't flow. Biggest thing that spoils it's aesthetics for me is the shape of the rear triangle & the orientation of its tubes in relation to the seat tube. The angle looks like the rear ended us cocked towards the front ic the bike, a bit like the shock is fully compressed.
Then again I can't stand the Evil full suspension frames, the bottom bracket area looks far too fussy.
I'm sure it rides amazingly well but I'd never buy one. Not saying anyone else should feel the same...

I think it's ace.

I agree, looks the dogs bollocks. But so it should for the price.

Wonder how long they can keep it up for with so many other fantastic bikes around these days for much less.

Edit: Of course I'm talking about those German guys and girls.

Oi, Barney, don't you be coming in here with your facts and evidence 🙂

Personally I'd prefer it in some hideous neon colour rather than the matt black or rather muted red, but each to their own. It looks like a Santa Cruz for people that fancy a "nu-skool" 29er but like Santa Cruz, which is fair enough. Not revolutionary, but filling a gap in the market.

I was interested in Barney's comments about the need to be more aggressive with it as this fits in with my own experiences with the Smuggler. At first I wasn't sure about the Smuggler and it wasn't really working for me until I got really frustrated with myself at the end of a ride a few weeks back and just went for it. Weight a bit further forward, elbows out and suddenly it came alive. It sounds as though the Hightower is similar, which makes sense as they are both relatively long, low and slack 29ers.

Oi, Barney, don't you be coming in here with your facts and evidence
Personally I'd prefer it in some hideous neon colour rather than the matt black or rather muted red, but each to their own. It looks like a Santa Cruz for people that fancy a "nu-skool" 29er but like Santa Cruz, which is fair enough. Not revolutionary, but filling a gap in the market.
I was interested in Barney's comments about the need to be more aggressive with it as this fits in with my own experiences with the Smuggler. At first I wasn't sure about the Smuggler and it wasn't really working for me until I got really frustrated with myself at the end of a ride a few weeks back and just went for it. Weight a bit further forward, elbows out and suddenly it came alive. It sounds as though the Hightower is similar, which makes sense as they are both relatively long, low and slack 29ers.

Same with my Scout, the harder I ride it the better it gets. Problem is I don't go bananas enough.

Too steep and too short

you're either trippin or trollin

It's nearly as long as my Smuggler, and that's one of the longest non-weird bikes around. I wouldn't want any longer, tight corners and hairpins already need a good bit of planning to get round. I wouldn't want any slacker than 67 on a 29er either, steering would be painfully slooooooow.

I think it looks like it should be a sweet bike, damn expensive but that's the way top end carbon is going. SC seem to be catching up with Transition etc in terms of geometry too, previously they've been too short for lanky freaks like me.

Nicolai / Mojo, Pole, Airdrop, Zumbi & Starling are all making interesting things right now.

Interesting comment above that some one wouldn't want anything longer than what they already have as its already difficult to get round corners... Assuming you are not riding an XL frame then how do you think tall people manage?

I hear Minnar is running an XL V10 and Ratboy is running a medium / large V10. Both seem pretty good at getting round corners so is it really an issue with the bike or would they be faster on a smaller frame?

As a Tallboy ltc owner that's running a longer fork, Anglest and reducer bushes this has actually got me interested in a test ride.
Not been even slightly interested in any other full suss 29er until now.
The fact it will also take B+ wheels is a bonus for me too. So long as it'll take full + sized wheels on 45mm rims?
Barney?

Double post.

I hear Minnar is running an XL V10

XXL actually

I'm surprised he can get something that long round the curvature of the earth.

He's not stupid so he must be picking that size frame for a reason and that reason must cancel out this long bikes can't turn corners theory, no?

http://m.pinkbike.com/news/evil-bikes-the-wreckoning-first-look-core-bike-2016.html

At a very quick glance an evil medium is very similar to a santa cruz large, so that's another actually long frame. This post is brought to you in the middle of eating my tea so could be wrong.

Looked & felt great to me yesterday.
Large felt too big for me, which the Tallboy doesn't. (sat on both with 650B+ & 29er wheels as did many)
Angle set won't be possible, as they're now integrated headsets & not press in cups.
& Since when is 67 degree head angle too steep on a 29er??
Try riding one & then say the same. Stumpy Evo 29 is 68 & you don't hear people saying how steep they are.

Why would you assume he's not on the XL podge? He is called big Jim and describes himself as a lanky freak.

You have not told use what uber LLS gnarpoon you ride yet?

thepodge - Member

At a very quick glance an evil medium is very similar to a santa cruz large, so that's another actually long frame. This post is brought to you in the middle of eating my tea so could be wrong.

The reach on the Hightower Size L is 450mm - The Evil Following is 444 in Large. Wheelbase on the Hightower is longer too. And the Hightower is slightly slacker

The Wreckoning is a 160mm bike, and only has 2mm reach on the Hightower, and a degree or so head angle.

SC bikes have traditionally been very short, but I don't think the Hightower is short compared to the competition.

I hear Minnar is running an XL V10 and Ratboy is running a medium / large V10. Both seem pretty good at getting round corners so is it really an issue with the bike or would they be faster on a smaller frame?

Those are DH bikes, I don't think the hightower is being pitched as a DH bike or for use in the same way on the same kind of trails. I imagine a DH bike would ride like a pig if you tried to use it as a trail bike like you would the Hightower.

Regardless the V10 actually has shorter reach than the Hightower size for size anyway.

Yes I am on an XL Smuggler and just under 6'5". It's a very long bike, using your V10 reference it is quite a bit longer reach than the XXL V10. Tip to toe it was the longest bike on the Inners uplift trailer when I took it on that, though that is partly the bigger wheels rather than wheelbase - DH bikes have slacker headset and longer travel which makes the wheelbase long.

I'm guessing you are basing your judgement on geometry tables rather than real world experience, if so I suggest actually riding a few of these kind of bikes to get a feel before passing judgement.

[/singlespeedstu - Member
As a Tallboy ltc owner that's running a longer fork, Anglest and reducer bushes this has actually got me interested in a test ride.]

What's the slacked out LTc ride like on the trail ? Put a 1.5 angleset in my LTc with a 150mm fork and front end was so floppy at slow speed. Never took it out in anger though. On your advice might put the angleset back in and give it a blast 😀

Got a 160 fork 1.5 Angleset and shock bushes and it rides fine both uphill and downhill. Takes a bit more weight bias towards the front on steep climbs but it's no been a problem in the slightest.

Looks like slack weekend for me singlespeedstu cheers

Singlespeed Stu - yep, it runs 3.0 27.5+ chubby wheels with (I think) 50mm rims - tho the rims could be a bit narrower. Whatever; they fit. I loved the driftability - or at least the controlled drifting - that the chubbies lent to the bike, although I concede that might've been the tread pattern rather than the fatness per se.

Devbrix - my main bike atmo is a slacked out XL Tallboy LT - HA is reduced 2 degrees and I'm running a 150mm Pike, 50mm stem and 800mm bars, and it's brilliant. You don't lose much on the climbs, and you gain tons on the descents. But again, I had to change how I ride it; it needs different techniques, coaxing where it used to need pushing and vice versa.

It really works (for me) if you put a little more air in the fork and weight the front end more; pushing into corners rather than letting the fork lead, if you see what I mean. Odd to go back to it after riding the Hightower, though - my brain keeps on expecting them to ride the same and they really don't.

The Hightower doesn't appear to be any longer than other SC bikes. Its only 5mm longer than a Bronson of equivalent size so naff all really especially considering the Bronson is 1 degree slacker so even less of a difference on wheelbase.

EDIT: I probably mean Front Centre length rather than wheel base.

The reach on the Hightower Size L is 450mm - The Evil Following is 444 in Large. Wheelbase on the Hightower is longer too. And the Hightower is slightly slacker

The Wreckoning is a 160mm bike, and only has 2mm reach on the Hightower, and a degree or so head angle.

SC bikes have traditionally been very short, but I don't think the Hightower is short compared to the competition.

Barney, that sounds a grand idea and as I need some new forks I may as well give it a go. Any problems with bottom bracket height? Any headset recommendations?

For what it is worth I think the hightower looks ace but ill stick with my lt, i think its brilliant, although I'm a weirdo who seems to quite like a short bike. The smuggler and banshee prime felt like they were running away with me.

Oh, I ran a 1.5deg slackset and 160mm forks on a LTc. It rode great! Prob still a bit tall and short by modern standards.

OK, this is a prime example of why I shouldn't skim read at work. A large would give me an extra 20mm reach and 11mm in ett while also giving me 7mm more seatpost adjustment over my 3 year old 29er but I've already got a 67 ha and would happily go slacker, I can turn better on this than my old 70 ha 26er.

I still stand by the idea that those numbers aren't anything special. I think I just expect too much from a new bike.

Whippersnapper. I'm using the Cane Creek angleset. It's pricey, but pretty good - although you need to run it tighter than you'd expect, and it still benefits from being stripped down and greasing every month or so to avoid creaking, which is a faff.
BB height seems OK - after all, I'm running a (slightly) longer than recommended fork, slightly slacker, so it all evens out in the end, I guess.

I still stand by the idea that those numbers aren't anything special

I'd say they're special compared to how things were a few years ago, and good by current developing standards. I know things are way slacker now than what used to be classed as normal but i can't see them getting much slacker on big wheels without things getting a bit ponderous and wheelbases getting a bit daft.

I still stand by the idea that those numbers aren't anything special

Barney,

Had the pleasure of riding with you in Dalby last year, old bloke on a Bronson from York, now riding a rather garish 2016 version but hankering after a Hightower, I know your tall what size was the HT you rode? I'm thinking L at 6ft, feels spot on with the new Bronson being that bit longer than the one I'm selling.

Cheers
Mark

Ha! Hello yorkycsl - a great little ride that was 🙂 The Hightower in the pics (that I rode) was an XL...

Cheers!

Yup a cheeky little ride any time your fancy the hidden gems let me know no worries, new Bronson does feel more comfortable so hoping a L HT is around the same.

Hope your all settled over there & the floods didn't affect you.

PS Jammy sod the HT recky didn't look too shabby dry dusty trails in South America huh, hard life...

As this has popped back up was taking a look yesterday, price wise it's very close to the stuntjumper over here (carbon to carbon) and some nice builds on them. It's certainly got me keen to try one.

...almost *too* dusty - not a phrase I thought I'd ever say 😉

lol gets used all the time here Barney, in some ways dust and dry are worse than wet for riding in 😉

Reading the reviews the general consensus is that the hightower is a "big wheeled" Bronson, I'm guessing they mean 'cause the way it rides, but it looks a lot more like a Nomad with the shock setup and re-triangle. Anyone got any ideas what they mean?

p.s. singlespeedstu and devbrix I'm running angleset (1 deg) and 130mm forks on my tallboy 2 and it feels great.

gothandy,

If the HT rides like a new Bronson then in my limited time on my new Bronson it'll be spot on even quicker maybe, I'm interested in any early demo days & join the queue though I'm looking at 29 set up.

Just seen one in the flesh... 29r flavour looks very nice colour is a good one