[Closed] Salsa Fargo with Jones Bars

Yup I ride one, just got the size (L) that i fit/recommended by Salsa

I am sort of a geek when it comes to geometry (also a former Fargo user) and in my opinion it's a BIG NO!

way too much stack and way, WAY too short reach with Jones Bar on such a frame

Salsa Fargo is for drop bar, if you want to go Jones don't waste that frame, you'll easily find someone to sell

I’d agree with the above. Unless there’s a typo in the geometry, and in particular the reach figure, then for me it would be way too short even with the intended drop bar. Flat, or Jones bars would be awful on it.

Hmmm, this is putting a spanner in the works a bit.

@houns mind if I ask what stem you're running and how tall you are?

@ciquta one of the reasons the Fargo appeals is the stack. At the moment I'm riding a camino but I struggle to get my weight off my hands and I fancy something with bigger tyres and more relaxed geometry. I've seen some nifty looking Jones setups from Keep Pedalling and thought it might be fun to try.

5000 miles last year on my fargo fitted with jones bars. on and offroad. perfect.

If there's anyone in the Cheshire area who has a large or extra large and wouldn't mind me trying it, I'd be very grateful.

@ton mind telling me what size frame and your height?

I run my Fargo flat bar, it's a 2012 model but the general idea behind the geo is probably still the same. With drops I found the only real usable hand position was in the drops themselves - because of the massive stack it just felt odd reaching forward but not down to the hoods. I worked out that the drops were about where a flat bar would be, so a flat bar with Ergon grips actually gives me more usable hand positions for mixed on/off road rides. I have some OO Geoff bars to try when I get around to it as I didn't want to commit Jones money for an experiment, but I can't see why they won't work - worst case maybe a slightly longer stem.

I’m 6 ft / 183 cm with a 33” inside leg. iirc it’s an 80 mm stem (will double check tomorrow). I like the long head tube and upright position, with the bars on it feels like you can ride through anything

@cupotea

bike is a xl mate. and i am a very big 6ft 4''

Thanks both, I'm 6'2" with 35" leg so maybe XL would be right.

Thanks for the link @ton but sadly I get a 404 from it.

https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/rider-gallery-and-debrief-jennride-2021/

scroll down to the big bloke with the fargo

@ciquta one of the reasons the Fargo appeals is the stack. At the moment I’m riding a camino but I struggle to get my weight off my hands and I fancy something with bigger tyres and more relaxed geometry. I’ve seen some nifty looking Jones setups from Keep Pedalling and thought it might be fun to try

the camino has a very low stack and steep STA for an adventure bike

But you can get weight off your hands and have a more relaxed posture without raping a Fargo. For example a Genesis Longitude has a higher stack and much slacker STA, along with Jones it will move your CG away from your wrists.

Fargo IMO is the wrong tool for the job (overpriced too)

Haven't compared geometry but they look similar to me:
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBTISRGX/titus-silk-road-sram-gx-titanium-adventure-bike
I ride one with Geoff bars and it works well for me (50mm stem and Thomson layback post). PX were doing them for £1,799 (or even cheaper) until recently. Their On-One Rocky Road version was £999 (SX equipped rather than the GX on the Titus).

Got mine in lieu of a Bombtrack Beyond Adv+ as I missed tge last ones in stock, but pretty happy with it on 2.6" tyres.

Hi,
Have had a Fargo with Jones bars for 7+ years, last 6 years ti XL (183cm tall) with the wider loop bars and a Hugo front rim and 3" Bontrager XR2 and another wheel set with balloon tyres (just replaced Super moto's with Speed One's.
Sold all the bikes I had to get this one good bike.
Use it for commuting, trail riding and backpacking.
By far the most comfortable bike I have had. As capable as most any rigid bike off road but amazing for just spending hours riding.

Thanks all for the contributions, though I'm not sure it gets me any closer to a decision until I find one I can actually try.

I've driven myself mad looking at geometry charts and I've made too many expensive decisions resulting in uncomfortable bikes in the past. The vast majority of manufacturers persuing long reach and low stack are in direct conflict with my proportions and preferences!

The silk road is nice but (as most planetx stuff) has a very aggressive geo.
74° STA in XL falls in the road ballpark, whereas the Jones are designed for a 71° STA.

Those 3° makes a HUGE difference, reach doesn't tell much by itself if not related to STA.

Stack, STA and reach will define the triangle of you body position (feet, hands and bum).

@ciquta can you suggest anything apart from the Longitude? Almost everything I look at is a few degrees steeper e.g. Surly Ogre at 73.

If you're based in UK (I'm not) I would consider the Longitude or the Bombtrack.

Or if you want to dig into all the alternatives for a 5€ subscription geometrygeeks will let you search through all its database by any criteria.. STA, stack, reach, BBdrop and so on.

Doing a GIS for 'salsa fargo with jones bars' turns up some interesting setups, some look sensible, but it also looks like plenty of people end up using them with longer stems and/or a significant pile of spacers on top of the headset. It maybe suggests the conventional sizing for the framme no longer applies when you put something with such massive backsweep on or they're trying to 'fix' a bad choice of frame...

Silly question, could you try a Jones loop (or copy) on your current bike just to see what effect it has, before embarking on a whole new bike build? Or have I missunderstood the current situation?

Have a look over on Keep Pedalling website. They are based in Manchester and have done some custom builds of Fargo some with Loops.
https://keeppedalling.co.uk/bikes/salsa-cycles/fargo/

My own experience with the Fargo was too long TT so you need to try first exactly which frame size suits you best if at all.

Whilst the STA impacts on the effective top tube length, I’m not sure you need a 71 degree STA to use a Jones Bar.

A shallow seat angle will get the saddle back and and maybe take weight off your arms. It also lengthens the ETT for any given reach but it takes weight off your hands by pushing your bum back in relation to your feet.

The STA, reach and stack all work together but each frame tends to mix them in their own particular way. I now like high bars and not too long a ‘cockpit’

I have easily achieved that with my ECR and my Longitude but in slightly different ways as one is longer then the other. The Longitude has a short stem and the ECR a medium length one.

Both are really comfortable now and I would not go back to arms out, head down and arse up.

Seat tubes are getting steeper on MTBs and that is to give a good rat up drainpipe climbing stance and to allow the long reach to work without too long an ETT. Some people find them comfy for all day riding too. I have yet to try one for long enough to know if that would work for me. My prejudice is that it wouldn’t and I should stick to my 73 degree STA. I must try it I guess. I would want to bring the bars as close as possible and quite high to make it work for me I think.

Not all new bikes seem to be steep though. I note that the Stooge Scrambler has a 72 degree seat tube.

Many will disagree with my comments but that’s always the same when talking bike geometry…

You will know this already but it’s worth remembering that if not running a dropper you can get layback seat posts that give you plenty of room for slackening a STA. Jones bars are available with 2.5” rise (I use them), you will never quite know until you try a frame and setup and even then it takes time to get used to things.

Edit… Scrambler is down for a 72 degree STS

STA might be a bit of a red herring with the loop bars, but reach is very much a factor and it's worth considering that Jeff Jones was/is a bit ahead of the curve when thinking about geometry and bars

It's an older video now but just look at the bike he's demonstrating the loop bar on:
It's got a steeper STA, longer TT, huge wheelbase (especially with the increased offset on the truss fork and sensibly high stack, weight can be better centred between two wider spaced axles, hip angle opened up on climbs and flats, lots of hand position options and the ability to shift CoG about. That stem is quite short too and you can see when his hands are at the full width of the bar they're actually slightly behind the steering axis, when lined up with the controls they're pretty much in line with the steerer, the "normal" hand position isn't really meant to be at full width, but Lots of people seem to end up fitting a longer stem with a loop to accommodate the difference in reach at the ends, trying to put the ends of the bars about where normal sweep bars would be, perhaps not realising that their hands probably should be an inch and a half further forwards and closer together most of the time...

The loop bars probably work best with a Jones frameset that's designed for them, but would certainly benefit from a longer ETT, and a sensible reach stem...

I think that’s a Jones LWB in the video (?) which, to my knowledge, has a STA of 71 deg which is pretty slack, and a shortish reach.

I think STA may be important for other reasons other than using a Jones bar or not. One of these is that for seated riding, reach is only half the story because the effective top tube determines how far you have to stretch and that is impacted by STA.

I am no Jones Bars expert but agree that the grip position and stem length should be based around the forward part of the bar.

Whilst the bar may work best on a Jones frame, it certainly works well on my bikes and the lack of a Jones style high stack can be compensated for by the riser bar.

I would like to try a Jones bit they don’t seem to be very available in the UK at the moment.

Tried David at Bothy Bikes?

Tried David at Bothy Bikes?

I was just looking at their website 😂

It's not just about the TT, if you want to lift weight from your wrist then it's a matter on where your CG is, and that's mostly dictated by STA.

Reach can be adjusted by a fair margin with stem and handlebar. STA doesn't have such a margin.

@cupotea

if you fancy a few hours riding a jones clad fargo, you are more than welcome to come over to leeds for a ride on mine mate.

i would just like to mention that i have been riding jones clad bikes for the last 10 or so years.
the list is long,
3 x surly disc truckers. 1 x surly ogre. 2 x surly ecr. 1 x Jones plus. 1 x salsa fargo.

i have a book with measurements in. saddle height, bar height. saddle nose to stem. saddle nose to grips.
ALL of my bikes are set up with the same measurements. so they all feel the same when riding.
which is far far more important than a bikes head angle / seat angle / bb height.

come over and ride my fargo. i am pretty sure you will find it fine with jones bars.

It’s not just about the TT, if you want to lift weight from your wrist then it’s a matter on where your CG is, and that’s mostly dictated by STA.

Reach can be adjusted by a fair margin with stem and handlebar. STA doesn’t have such a margin.

True… but my view is that all of these dimensions are interdependent so it’s not just about TT or STA or reach. Reach is adjustable via changing stems but in a long bike you may struggle to get the bars closer if that’s what you want.

Some people seem to be happy on any shape of bike and don’t notice what the angles are. Others are quite particular. It is great though when you hit in the right setup and you get comfortable and can ride all day (if that’s what you want of course).

Ton’s is a good offer I recon. Nothing like trying stuff out.

That's a very kind offer @ton . I'll check when I can get up there and drop you a PM. I'm still considering an Ogre as well so it would be good to have a chat with someone who's had both.

I am sort of a geek when it comes to geometry (also a former Fargo user) and in my opinion it’s a BIG NO!

way too much stack and way, WAY too short reach with Jones Bar on such a frame

Imho I'd disagree. The Jones bikes are very short reach - the original frame was about the same as a Fargo in a L. An L or XL would work fine if the standover was ok for the the OP. Jones bars work better on a shorter bike than a longer bike. They need a 80-100mm stem to be able to use the full width well and they have loads of fore-aft grip range.

The higher the stack and closer to 'short' reach the bike is, the better suited to H bars ime. Been riding Jones bikes and bars 10+ years and use the bars on other bikes.

To add to this ^ I'd say the H/Loop bars also suit a more upright bike or rider position. I get on really well with them on the Jones frames and anything similarly short, less so on anything with longer reach and lower stack. The sweep and general position they put me in is great on a short, agile kind of bike where the bar grip range lets me use the fwd position on flat roads etc. Not as good overall on a bike with a more trad XC position. I know some riders do use them on FS XC bikes etc though.

I’ve tried the OnOne Geoff bar on a Longitude 29er but feel it would maybe have been more suited to the Vagabond as on the Longitude it felt somewhat ‘cafe-racer’. ymmv

Not my cup of tea (the bars) but the Vagabond is quite similar to a Fargo and not quite so rocking horse poo. I miss mine as unknowingly opted for slightly wrong size when bought, and so swapped for a Longitude which was available. I’d have both!

been looking at the same.

One issue with the Fargo XL is that due to the steerer length of the fork, you can not get the bars any higher than you can on the size large... so in terms of stack loose the benefit of the high stack - unless you another fork with a longer steerer..

just to keep the STW ideals - possible alternative, bit less stack, but non suspension corrected fork etc - more money in UK due to shipping, vat duty etc..

https://tumbleweed.cc/products/stargazer?variant=40647438139573

^ Stargazer looks nice

A medium Tumbleweed Stargazer frameset weighs in at 8.85 pounds (4kg)

The (Reynolds 725) 2021 Vagabond frameset is claimed at 8.88 pounds (4.03kg)

I do slightly prefer the colour of the Stargazer (yet like both). More frame-mounts on the Genesis, more fork mounts on the Tumbleweed.

Will just have to look at them some more later and dream on 😎

Do Bombtrack still make the Beyond? (‘Beyond’, ‘Stargazer’, ‘Vagabond’ - all lovely escapist/long-distance conjuring words). You have to hand it to Salsa for naming theirs after a Coen Bros film?

In the brainstorming session for this steel-titanium touring bike, the team was naming places that are in the middle of nowhere. Former Salsa brand manager Jason Boucher chimed in with "Fargo" because he grew up near there. As we pondered it, we realized the wordplay of Far-go/go far. “It is like a bit of magic just happened,” said Mike “Kid” Riemer.

Ah 😉

You have to hand it to Salsa for naming theirs after a Coen Bros film?

And also for giving it Woodchipper handlebars. 😄

Saw this and thought of this thread

Thanks @p7eaven that's not far from me at all. I might give it a whirl!

https://singularcycles.co.uk/products/gryphon-steel

Not cheap but maybe good. Not sure how long you would have to wait.

Very similar to Fearless Warlock to my untrained eye

They do look similar don’t they. 73mm bb and much bigger tyre clearance on the Singular I think.

£900 for a gas piper. the world has gone bonkers.

bonkers

Indeed. While I like the looks of it very much, I could get the aforementioned Vagabond frameset, in 725, and with £300 left over towards a pair of wheels all for the same price as a Gryphon.

@cupotea I've got a Jones Spaceframe (with Jones Bars, obvs) built up that I'm getting ready to sell. Could do the job nicely?