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I've just had a slight altercation with someone over my cycling and thought I'd check out whether I was in the wrong or not.
The situation is this, I need to take the opposite exit on a roundabout so signal right and pull into the central lane of the roundabout, signal left at the appropriate point and take the exit. The exit lane is a dual carriage way that runs for a few hundred yards to traffic lights to allow a right turn from the opposite side of the carriage way to cut across into a shopping centre, beyond the traffic lights there's a left hand turn into the village and a right hand turn that cuts across the otherside of the dual carriage way to the other side of the village (which I need to take); drivers usually come of the roundabout into the lefthand lane to turn into the shopping centre or into the village further on or the right hand lane to bypass both. Since I need to be in the right hand lane by the time I reach the traffic lights in order to take the right turn a little further on I come off the roundabout into the righthand lane of the dual carriage way (if you're in the lefthand lane it's pretty hard, on a bike, to move into the righthand lane as traffic tends to be pretty fast and often pretty close together).
Anyway, as I come off the roundabout into the righthand lane I notice the passenger in a sports car passing in the outside lane making w@nker gestures at me over his head. I catch up with them at the trafficlights and he can't help but tell me that the outside lane is the fast lane and it would be 'safer' for me to be in the slow lane (he seemed a little more 'polite' once alongside me rather than pulling away at speed gesturing). I tried to explain that I needed the right turn ahead but whoever was driving pulled away. I'm afraid that at this point I raised the middle finger (then rather wished I hadn't as I'm a total coward and wondered whether I was about to get hit, but the car went on and I took my right turn).
So anyway, was I in the wrong, should I have stayed in the lefthand lane coming off the roundabout and then tried to cut across a lane of fast moving traffic to take the righthand turning off the outside lane ahead or was I in the right?
Depends on how far the roundabout an righthand turn is.
But I would say if it is less than 200m stay in the right lane, anything more then stay left and then move right nearer the turning.
I don't really think there's a right or wrong answer. Depends a bit on the distance of dual carriageway to negotiate, the state of traffic (snarled up or free-flowing), how fast you're going, even weather conditions (ie if it's bad weather and spray everywhere, I'd be over on the left).
Unfortunately there's tossers in all walks of life. You just happened to meet one. No harm done.
Oh well, according to Tracklogs it's about 480 metres from the exit of the roundabout to the turning (about half that to the traffic lights by which time I really like to be in the right hand lane) so maybe I was out of order. It can be pretty difficult changing lanes at times though as you're moving into a lane of fairly fast moving traffic and I'm not confident that car drivers take much notice of a cyclist however clearly they're signalling.
I think I would have been in the RH lane too.
If I need to cycle in the RH lane on a dual carriage way I do three things:
1. cycle like a demented fat man...if car drivers can see you are trying to go fast they understand that you know you are "in the way" and are trying to get out of the way and back to the left side ASAP.
2. If I need to be in the RH lane for more than 50-100m then I try to keep to the RH side of the RH lane, this gives drivers the chance to undertake easily if the LH lane is not busy ( I tend to do this only on one roundabout in Leeds ...Skyliner roundabout coming from Sainsburys, turning towards Crossgates)
3. Be confident and exagerate your hand gestures. Let drivers know that you know what you are doing.
....oh bugger...number 4: try and find a friendly driver to use as a sheild. If you are in the LH lane and have plenty of time, stick you right arm out and keep an eye out over your shoulder. Once a friendly driver flashes or hangs back to let you move lanes use him/her to sheild you while you repeat the exercise to get into RH lane. Any driver that has made a choice to give way to a cyclist is on your side and will not mind being "held up" for a couple of hundred yards.
5. Do whatever is safest for you, and just try to ignore impatient idiots. To me, that means taking the rh lane.
Likewise. Me not getting driven over by a car benefits everyone so I think it's probably the right choice. I normally try to approach roundabouts at warp speed so I'm going as fast or faster than cars are when I get on it so no-one can bitch about a cyclist slowing them down.
Hmmm
Going straight on at a roundabout I would not be signalling as I went onto the roundabout and would be in the middle of the left hand lane. I would also not cycle for any distance down the right hand lane of a dual carrigeway.
Hard to say for sure as I don't know that road but what you are doing sounds wrong to me.
RichPenny - Member5. Do whatever is safest for you, and just try to ignore impatient idiots.
absolutly.
PJay - MemberI've just had a slight altercation with someone over my cycling and thought I'd check out whether I was in the wrong or not.
The situation is this, I need to take the opposite exit on a roundabout so signal right and pull into the central lane of the roundabout, signal left at the appropriate point and take the exit.
Well, that seems wrong for a start...
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interesting druidh since all my local round about are marked RH lane staight on or right and the LH lanes marked straight on or left
I learned quickly the other day that ill use no lane other than the left on busy aberdeen roundabouts ! - no ****er lets you out from the inside lane if your on a bike - or rather they did but very unwillingly when i forced them to slow down
trail_rat - Memberinteresting druidh since all my local round about are marked RH lane staight on or right and the LH lanes marked straight on or left
If you read the Highway Code, both are valid. However, the inference from the diagram is that when approaching the roundabout in the left lane, then you should carry on - and leave - in that same lane. However, the green car approaching from bottom right could exit top left in the "outside" lane, in parallel with the blue car.
I ride like a total wuss on the road, especially on right turns
Even if its my right of way I am defensive
All it takes is a nonce in a Saxo to ruin your day
But TBH turning right is my pet hate
Your approach is fair in a car
Pull over after the roundabout and own the lane
On a bike Im not so sure
As described you had some 4sehoe giving you what for
I would probably have stayed left, especially if its 480m and just pulled over the the left at my junction and then waited for a gap to move over to the correct lane at this point if the road was busy and I would be unlikely to just pull into the right lane whilst safely travelling
Cheers!
Interesting comment from Trail Rat!
Without this turning into a North/South debate, do folk find drivers in different city's/areas have different levels of tolerance?
As an example in Leeds when driving, most people seem happy to leave a gap for you to join their queue of traffic if you are joining from a side road (alternate filtering). Was in Cornwall the other week, and no sod lets you in (well very few).
I also notice that in Harrogate drivers are either VERY accomodating and leave lots of room, or are complete speeding tosspots, whereas Leeds is more typical. Bradford drivers tend to think bikes are fair roadkill.
I'd recommend reading Cyclecraft by John Franklin as it'll help you riding on the road, particularly in regard to how to position yourself.
Well, I'm pretty sure that straight on at the roundabout is marked in the righthand lane (but I will check), whether signalling right to move into the central lane of the roundabout is right or not it's something I tend to do (you only have to look at cars indicating on a roundabout to see lots of inconsistencies). The issue with the driver was though that I was in the righthand 'fast' lane of the dual carriage way.
In terms of Trailrat's comment of only using the inside lanes on roundabouts I've had a number of scary events as I start to pull across to take the exit (with glances behind and clear signals) as cars behind me on the inside lane undertake at speed to try and get off the roundabout first.
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Just had a quick look on Google Maps and it's as I thought. The road approaching the roundabout is a dual carriage way, straight ahead is marked in the righthand lane and left in the lefthand lane. This places you in the righthand lane going onto the roundabout so I assume you have to take the central lane on the roundabout.
i said left not inside - for the same reasons you describe - everyone wants to undertake you and get off the round about first.
Personally, I'd take the 'middle' of the left/slow lane during and after the roundabout, whilst looking over shoulder after it to spot a gap for merging to the right hand lane in time for your right hand turn.
It won't stop people being pizzed at you at times, but it keeps things 'tidy' by making them have give way or to overtake you on the right, so you - and they - have a situation that is familiar the whole way. Otherwise they'll squeeze you and not let you out as you say. Just riding the extra foot further in road so they have to actaully think about what they are doing should be enough for such a short stretch.
Otherwise, I agree that trying to turn right and feeling that you have to cross two lanes of traffic just to get the opportunity to turn is not easy or comfortable. However, being further across already and keep glancing back for the gap, should mean that drivers behind you some time and space as you obviously intend to merge right letting you wory about just the one column of traffic; and if you need to slow right down - and force them to do the same - so you can merge then turn, do it.
Unfortuantely, too many cyclists ride overly cautiously on the road; it allows drivers the chance to get away with things to often when they shouldn't and gives them a belief that the should be able to.
Another point with that - make sure you stay in your lane, within the lines; faster traffic has to overtake slower traffic - regardless of if you are a bike or a car, not bully you into riding on the shoulder so that they don't have to think!!!
Well, I've cycled the righthand lane of the dual carriageway (to the righthand side to allow cars to undertake) several times and this is the first time I've been put in my place, but maybe I shouldn't be there. The problem with being in the lefthand lane at the traffic lights is that you have to move into the righthand lane fairly quickly after this to take the right turn and move into traffic accelerating away from the traffic lights. I consider myself to be a fairly good and conscientious cyclist (perhaps a bit aggressive though) so just wanted to be sure I wasn't in the wrong. As a cyclist I don't think that there's anything you can do that won't upset some drivers.
In terms of roundabout use and always taking the lefthand lane for the opposite exit, since the righthand lane is marked for straight across I've always taken it under the assumption that I had to; I agree though that the lefthand lane would be safer. There's similar roundabout layout I often ride where the lefthand lane is marked for the opposite exit; I take the lefthand lane there. I might be worring too much about it all though as my experiences of cycling on the road (and roundabouts in particular) is that there's a huge amount of variation between car drivers (and signaling, or not, in particular).
If you get pulled up at these lights, can't you move across whilst everything is at a stop so that cars have to give you 'your spot' in the right hand lane? That would prevent the issues with changing lanes.
Otherwise, I reckon do what you feel safest doing; enough drivers make lazy decisions when driving and TBH, it's a speed limit, not a speed target, so they just have to be patient and wait for a bit - tough luck if it adds 20-30 seconds to their drive - as long as you feel and are safe.
Imagine you are a tractor, what lane would you be in?
If other road users have a problem with you on the road, that is their problem. You have as much right to use the road however you like as long as you are in the lane you need to be and within the law.
The problem with car drivers getting irate with cyclists is they think they are being slowed down, even if they are nto. I ride where i am safe, and where i want to. I've been stopped by the Police for breaking the law, so i guess i'm riding in the correct place 🙂
If other road users have a problem with you on the road, that is their problem.
You've got a caravan haven't you? A bit of consideration for other road users goes a long way.
Sometimes it goes a long way towards a dangerous situation though. I have something similar on my commute, where a single lane a road grows a rh lane about 500m before the lights. If I go late, I have to cross a lane moving at 50, into a lane maybe doing 35 to the corner. If I go early all I have to do is make sure noone will flatten me from miles back. Easy choice really.
Roundabouts - How to use them:
Listen up carefully people I shall say this only once.
Unless road markings tell you otherwise, or there is no right turn at a roundabout then you should use the left lane for going left or straight ahead, and the right lane for turning right or 180.
If there are two lanes going onto the roundabout and two lanes coming off then you leave in the lane that you entered the roundabout. If there is one lane going on and two going off then you can chose either.
Locally accepted procedures are not always correct or even legal, but might be the only way to navigate a roundabout safely.
As for the OP - how would you drive that stretch of road? There's your answer.
The OP doesn't drive but my observations would suggest that most drivers exiting the roundabout take the LH lane if they want to turn left into the shopping centre or the left hand turn into the village further on, and the RH lane if they want to take the right turn or carry on along the bypass.
As for the roundabout the righthand lane of the dual carriage way approaching it is clearly marked as the lane for straight ahead, the left lane for taking the left exit (I can supply a Google Maps view to prove this if you'd like). Interestingly there isn't actually a right turn, but you can go further around the roundabout end exit onto the other side of the approaching dual carriageway.
What I didn't know was that I was actually expected to leave the roundabout on the right lane.