I'm fannying around choosing another groupset for an unnecessary n+1 road bike. I bought a very nice frame in a sale last year and just feel the need to build it up (but not part with the old one obviously...).
I can't decide on the groupset. My nice bike has Ultegra 6700. I don't want 105 cos it's not nice enough. I keep just about buying DA but but but. I looked at Force today and it's only 80g more than DA but nearly half the cost. Campag looks nice but is dearer again...
Looks like I'm heading for Force and lopping a massive 80g off elsewhere.
What would you do?
<edit> mechanical not interested in electrickery
Chorus EPS, herself has just built some up, super nice.
Chorus is heavier than Force especially EPS...
Weight? I'd rather have reliability and longevity.
By buying Italian electronics? Good luck 🙂
6870 di2 - honest, it's great 🙂
Rather than throw away SRAM? I don't know anyone who doesn't think SRAM road is disposable. 😛
I don't know anyone who doesn't think SRAM road is disposable.
I don't...
...cue my shifters exploding on my next ride 😉
i detest the feel and shifting ability of SRAM, i love Campag but the increasing home-mechanic-unfriendliness of their parts puts me off, so Shimano for me every time YMMV
I looked at Chorus mechanical and it does look nice. It's a sparrows fart heavier than Force but £300 more or £200 from ze Garmans but non compact and my poor legs need compact these days.
I suppose I was looking for someone to talk me out if DA and into Force...
I suppose I was looking for someone to talk me out if DA and into Force...
That person would need to be crazy. Personally I'd go for 6800 and put the money saved towards some lovely wheels.
I suppose I was looking for someone to talk me out if DA and into Force...
I will if you like!! I converted to SRAM (Rival) about two years ago and c.6000 miles later it's still working great (famous last words, see above). If I change the groupset any time soon it is likely to be for Force.
For the money buying Force over DA you save you could build yourself some nice DA hubbed wheels, mmmm (that's what I'm doing!!) 😉
(YMMV though, as has been suggested)
Edit:
That person would need to be crazy.
Guess I must be crazy... 😆
I have Force 22 and Ultegra 6800 group sets and they're both great in their own ways but Shimano deffo feels more robust. Still prefer the shifting of SRAM though.
Guess I must be crazy...
There's always one 🙂
The new dura ace 9000 is stunning and lovely to use I ran it for 6 months if you have the cash it's the one !!!
If I were you I'd pick up an older dura ace 7800 groupset or just pick up bits off bay etc to build one .. Still a very very good groupset way better than 7900 ..
I'm going to buy new. Don't really fancy 6800 as I have 6700 on one bike and it's not different enough. 80g more than DA and £400 less is a compelling argument for Force assuming both DA and Force work well. Chorus is near enough the same weight as Force but at least £200 more.
What am I missing?
I've about to list in the classifieds both a Force and Di2 6800 Ultegra, Force is new and Ultegra has approx 1000 summer miles on it, if any interest. Only for sale as I've just picked up a new bike with Force 22 on it.
Blazin you don't have an email address in your profile.
Do you mean you have a Force group and a 6800 group? Can you email details to my address in profile please?
Yes I have a new force group, a slightly used ultegra 6800 di2 group and several used and new Force parts. I just need to go to the garage and check iexactly what I have and that it's in the condition I think it is. Dc30online AT gmail.com
I don't want 105 cos it's not nice enough.
5800 is amazing and no different to 6800 apart from a few grams and £200. For me the wheels make the difference not the groupset. Smart money would buy 5800 but if I was shitting money then I would go dura without question. Ultegra is nice but the extra £200 is not justifiable over 5800.
Don't really fancy 6800 as I have 6700 on one bike and it's not different enough.
Really.? Really really.? It's completely different. Maybe not to look at but to ride it couldn't be more different if it tried.
I have 5800 on another bike and, yes, it's nice.
I wouldn't say I'm shitting money but I do seem to baulk at an extra £400 for seemingly 80g. I've only done a couple of thousand miles on my current 6700 group so that's not getting changed yet. Wheels are sorted. I have a pair of Ksyrium Elite's and a pair of Reynolds Assault's. I'm not spending any money there.
So I'm in the market for Dura or Force or Chorus or Record... <sigh>
Blazin: YGM
I will second that 6800 is a completely different group set to 6700, the improvement is significant.
I'd get DA, or 6800 if budget is an issue. If you are happy with SRAM shifting and have the budget for DA then why not Red and shave a few more grams?
Dura Ace is the pinnacle of manual shifting. It really is amazing. New 105 is not the pinnacle but offers at least 80% of the performance. It is a step up from 6700. If you are happy with 6700 then DA will blow you away and leave a huge smile on your face.
I've just moved my 6700 to the race bike and put DA on the nice bike. Next year i'll go to Di2 on the race bike. DA will be on the nice. Bike for a VERY long time.
As for SRAM. Don't like the shifters. Campag - that's sora shifting for ultegra money :-). (my last bike was Campag btw - it's fine)
Slight hijack, but what is the difference in performance, if any, between a 5800 rear mech and an ultegra 6800 one ? I ask as my new 'adventure' bike has a 5800 group but I have a brand new 6800 rear mech in my box !
Long time user of SRAM -since 2009 anyway. I would put in a par with the ultegra groups I have used. I rate it higher than the chorus groupset i had though tbf that was over 10 years ago.
I have Record on my bets bike and it's superb
But my Winter/commute bike and centaur on it, and it's a smooth as a baby.
In fact the Centaur seems to be quieter than the record. 🙄
Slight hijack, but what is the difference in performance, if any, between a 5800 rear mech and an ultegra 6800 one ?
The colour and a few grams separate them. Functionally I don't think you would notice the difference just by swapping the mech. If you were to couple it with the Ultegra shiters then maybe, just maybe you would notice a difference.
Thanks neilsonwheels, think I'll just keep the ultegra as a spare. Picked it up cheap on CRC a few weeks back 😀
Buy 5800 and spend the rest elsewhere, I'm running 6700 and tempted by upgrade to 5800. Can't justify the extra for the ultegra, would rather spend that on wheels or something else.
I'm toying with the idea of a scott cr1 frame and dressing it with 6870 di2. there are some pretty good deals about at the moment on both.
dont really need a new fancy pants racer and what i should really do is save the money and wait for disks to sort themselves out next year before investing.
Chrispy, save me from myself then and buy my CR1 off me please.
The new 5800 and 6800 groupsets are excellent it hard to find faults really. Campagnolo groupsets may be more expensive but every thing they make just works. I have an old record 10 speed groupset and it performs like 6800 does but it is 10 years old. I wouldn't touch SRAM kit but i admit that is a bit of snobbery apart from the fact i cant stand double tap. So buy Shimano if you want reliable performance without a big spend. Buy Campagnolo if you want pretty, reliable and performance Apart from those new four arm chainsets cant get used to those.
SRAM all the way. With Shimano you use the brake lever to shift. This is stoopid, particularly for upshifts on the front. In my experience...
I had DA on my last road bike. Not sure what version. I liked it. Got SRAM Red on the new one and I like that too. Works, feels nice, double tap doesn't take much getting used to.
I think it I'm down to DA at £900 or Force at £500. For me, Force may not be quite as nice as DA but it works well enough and is only 80g heavier. It's also quite different from and ~250g lighter than 6700 which attracts me.
I think I feel the Force and I'll spend the £400 saved on crisps and pasties a la Hora 🙂
Well I fiddled and farted and faffed but eventually pressed the 'buy' button before the Ribble sale finishes today.
There really only was [i]one[/i] choice in the end 😉
You did buy Dura Ace and not that Force junk yes?
Errrm well, errrm. Yes 🙂
I quite liked the thought of Force and saving £400 but I want to build a really nice bike and Force looks a bit industrial. I'm sure it's very nice. I think the correct answer was actually 'Super Record' but all my other kit is Shim/Sram and the £££'s, oh the bloody £££'s.
This will give me something to do rather than riding the bloody things 🙂
There really only was one choice in the end
Red or DA would have been a more interesting choice. DA or Force if you have the budget for DA is a simple one.
I think the correct answer was actually 'Super Record' but all my other kit is Shim/Sram and the £££'s, oh the bloody £££'s.
I can't think of anything worse than having 3 incompatible (in places) groups spread across my bikes, a full house of frustration!
I went 5800 105 with an Ultegra rear mech. It's the only bit anyone notices anyway 🙂
Probably a bit late now but 'Cyclist' this month has a big article that explains the differences between each step in the heirarchy of groupsets from the big three manufacturers. Goes into detail of what precisely the difference is between say an Ultegra chainset versus a DA one.
Thanks. I think I read that on line. I was just faffing really. I nearly pressed the button half a dozen times. I was mucking around as this is a very real n+1 and there is no logical reason (or space) for it. Pure indulgence. As Andy would say; 'I want that one'. 🙂
Well I'm the guy who had DA7900 on his race bike and then got seduced with DA9000 Di2 for a bargain price (also from Ribble) so I bought that and put the 7900 onto the winter training bike!
So you don't need to explain or justify yourself to me. What's not to like about Dura Ace or any of the other top groupsets from the big three?
Yes the performance gain might be relatively marginal, but its more than discernable enough to be felt and enjoyed.
So....enjoy 😀
There's something (for me anyway) about owning Dura Ace that transcends its performance. It was always [i]the[/i] groupset to aspire to, and the 9000 series is simply the best and most beautiful groupset ever made.
I have it on my R5 and there's not a day goes by that I don't find myself just looking at it. It's gorgeous!
The fact that it performs so faultlessly is the other reason to go for it. I've had it for 2 years now, and absolutely nothing about it bugs me. No niggles, nothing I wish was slightly different, nothing that I feel could be improved.
The lever throw is so short and precise that it makes Di2 seem rather a pointless extravagance.
Looking at it from a different angle, there's only 1 pro-tour team using SRAM this year, and that's AG2R. And most of the others have migrated from campag to DA.
I think that once you've coveted it, and come so close to clicking 'buy', you'll always regret it if you don't buy it now. And how much difference is a few hundred quid going to make to you over, say, 5 or 6 years that you'll be using your DA-9000...
You'd be daft to get anything else!
G
The lever throw is so short and precise that it makes Di2 seem rather a pointless extravagance.
Well, I have been accused of being just that before.
Looking at it from a different angle, there's only 1 pro-tour team using SRAM this year, and that's AG2R. And most of the others have migrated from campag to DA.
Interestingly the Cyclist article suggested that this might be because SRAM doesn't (currently) have an electronic offering. It is useful in some situations, like on TT bikes where it can minimise the disruption to your position.
FWIW I have grown to like how Di2 works, at least compared to 7900 mechanical. I think the gap between 9000 mechanical and Di2 might be less because the 9000 mechanical shifters were improved over the equivalent 7900.
I like the way with Di2 you can so easily change down a gear when climbing out of the saddle without having to relax or change your grip.
That's it in a nutshell. There no 'need', I'm as far away from a Pro or angry young man as is possible but just the pure joy of ownership of something really nice is magic. What was stopping me buying 'lesser' kit was that it wasn't nice enough to justify the pointless extra bike. No need for another if it is much the same as existing. It needed to be much nicer (or fill another niche).
And in the scheme of things, the price doesn't matter, it's not a significant outlay. As with all conspicuous consumption, if you don't need to sell a kidney or prostitute the wife, there's often not much to be said against it fiscally.
I'm running 6700 and tempted by upgrade to 5800.
I've just done exactly that - 5800 was £280 in the Ribble sale, no way was it worth an extra £200 for no functional difference and a trivial weight saving. The saving is half way to a really top notch set of handbuilt wheels...
The price of luxury items is £300, apparently. The marginal price for you is £400. You won't regret it every time you press the shift lever.
One other point. Although it's not hewn from solid alloy Campag, it is crashable. When I downed my new DA on the first ride, a replacement (silvered plastic) nameplate was £9, and the carbon shift lever was barely marked. The RD was touched up with a little black enamel and all is good again.
Thank the Lord boblo,.
Campag is a waste of money tbh, pretty much like "high end" watches.
The only way it can be perceived as good value is the fact you get more material.
Campag is a waste of money tbh, pretty much like "high end" watches.
Hmm.... Cost of everything, value of nothing.....
3 minutes, I expected quicker.
EDIT aP I've worked many many road bikes with both Campag and Shimano. Try to convince me (without referring to your intergalactic mileages).
EDIT aP I've worked many many road bikes with both Campag and Shimano. Try to convince me (without referring to your intergalactic mileages).
My brother and I wouldn't have anything to rib each other about if everyone rode the same groupsets. Our shared rides usually go along the lines of:
Him: How's your fishing tackle, caught any fish with it lately?
Me: Fine thanks. How's you're Italian work ethic? Has your drive train finally managed to change gear from the last time we rode together [last week]?
I'm toying with the idea of a scott cr1 frame and dressing it with 6870 di2. there are some pretty good deals about at the moment on both.
as in both together?...
I think that once you've coveted it, and come so close to clicking 'buy', you'll always regret it if you don't buy it now. And how much difference is a few hundred quid going to make to you over, say, 5 or 6 years that you'll be using your DA-9000...
This. How long are you thinking of keeping the bike/build? If youre setting out to build a pimpy bike and keep it for some time, then amortise the extra cost.
As you say there's little point trying to justify an extravagance in objective performance terms, but if it's about pride of ownership etc then you'll spend a long time thinking "if only...".
Really only 2 questions:
Do you want it?
Can you afford it?
I don't get rid of my bikes which is half the problem... I'll be keeping this for a long time though it may be a bit 'Triggers broom' after a couple of years 🙂
What frame is it OP? I would have thought that was an important part of the decision making process?
Aaaaahhh well, prepared for some sneering... It's one of those Scott CR1 Sl's from last year (it's spent time in hiding with Julian Assange). I bought it and haven't built it up yet. I have a 2009 CR1 as well though that's the one prior to the the mamil/sportive treatment.
It's a very nice frame (HPX etc) just not in the latest flavour. Reynolds Assault's, Fizik Arione and Ritchey finishing kit should make a very nice boik 🙂
Just can't get used to the new shimano chainsets. To me they look wrong but my nice bike is old record 10 speed that won't die.
But be hard to justify the extra cost of super record over da when I comes to replacement
My Force shifters wore out recently after maybe 3 years regular use. The teeth on ratchet wore off, so just wear & tear.
I was happy with Force, and just as happy with the Force22 group set on other bike.
I bought 5800 shifters to replace the worn Force. And they are silky smooth, definitely better shifting than Force/Force22.
I have 5800 on a CAADX and they are very nice. I must be a plank though cos I can't really tell that much difference between 6700 and 5800...
If I wanted to build a bike on a sensible budget, I'd buy 5800 no questions asked.
My Force shifters wore out recently after maybe 3 years regular use. The teeth on ratchet wore off, so just wear & tear.
I was happy with Force, and just as happy with the Force22 group set on other bike.
My winter bike has 8-speed Shimano 600 - the first of the STi levers - that I bought new in 1992. It's been in regular use ever since, on the winter bike for the past 5 seasons. And it gets used 2-3 times a week, whatever the weather decides to through at it.
It shows no signs of wear whatsoever, the shift is a crisp and smooth as the day I first built it as a 19-year-old lad.
I also have 105, Ultegra and DA-7700 series groupsets that have been raced, TT'd, crashed and generally abused...
I've NEVER had a Shimano item die due to wear and tear.
G
Never seen an sti wear out.
As for Shimano chains, brake pads etc... 😛
Apologies, obviously I've had plenty of drivetrain components wear out, but none of the "hardwear".
G
Never seen an sti wear out.
I had a pair of DA 7700 9 spd STI that the return spring ceased to return on. They did have about 40k on though.
Aaaaahhh well, prepared for some sneering... It's one of those Scott CR1 Sl's from last year
Well I would say it's absolutely worthy of top-end kit.
I sold mine after a year because the frame didn't take 25mm tyres - which I have become addicted to - and the replacement is just not quite as fast.
With Dura Ace and your carbon wheels it will be an absolute joy to ride and an awesome climbing machine.
crashtestmonkey
I'm toying with the idea of a scott cr1 frame and dressing it with 6870 di2. there are some pretty good deals about at the moment on both.
as in both together?...
Thats exactly what I've been looking at, however the defy advanced its fighting it for attention.
I normally hate aero bikes, but I keep getting drawn to this combination of value, spec and just general appeal
Given I'm also drawn to the massively reduced Kona Satori on their site I really need to step away from the internet...
boblo - Member
I have 5800 on a CAADX and they are very nice. I must be a plank though cos I can't really tell that much difference between 6700 and 5800...
Rearrange the following phrase or saying: words eat my...
I rode my 6700 bike on Saturday for the first time in ages. I've spent the last 1500 miles or so on my 5800 winter bike. The effort at the lever is night and day particularly the front. 6700 feels massively agricultural next to 5800, God knows how it'll feel against 9001. Looks like another upgrade bill coming 🙂