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When doing the long road climbs round here I generally sit and spin the straight bits, then get out of the saddle on the hairpins. You can certainly generate more power out of the saddle, but it's not something you can keep up for long (at least I can't!). But it mixes things up a bit, helps get the blood flowing in your more [i]delicate areas[/i], and if you're racing gives you a chance to put a bit of demoralising distance on an opponent 🙂
That said, I'm not a physiotherapist. YMMV.
I can only speak from my own experience, I'd say sit down/stand up climbing efficiency depends on fitness, power and your body mass.
I'm light and actively seek out many climbs on every ride; one of my favourite pre-breakfast rides is up swain's lane 10 times back to back (coming back down highgate west hill), pushing it harder each time.
To get good at climbing you are going to suffer, but the more you climb the easier it gets especially as you really get to know the limits of your body.
so i can either sit and spin a high cadence which requires good aerobic conditioning, or stand off the saddle at lower cadence in a higher gear to give a standing platform to work from; keeping it light either for stable pedalling or sometimes dancing is great for loosening up.
I don't find it tiring to stand for long periods but that comes from years of riding bmx and free ride MTB with low saddles.
I could see a heavier rider finding seated climbing more efficient, but gearing range is critical for seated climbing, if gears are too tall cadence will drop making it very hard work even seated.
Modern 11 speed wide range cassette gearing with mid or compact gearing is great for climbing duties.
There is also a growing body of evidence to show that core stability and strength aren't as important as once thought.
Music to my ears. I f*****g hate doing core strength exercises!
On the topic at hand, I have nothing scientific to contribute, nor any qualifications, but after riding a singlespeed over the winter I think I now prefer standing up and grinding a bigger gear on steeper stuff. You can do this for a surprisingly long time once you've had a bit of practice.
Standing up, now that is one area where SS mtbing can help your roadbiking
I am 92 kgs not much excess but standing for me seemed inefficient, possibly technique more gearing just seemed to be inbetween but something seemed correct for more than spinning but less than pounding out the climb,
what I feel is
I used muscles group differently whem stood to sat,
you need strong core/lower back to be a good climber, it is muscle balance/strength.
🙂
Hang on... Is Wanmankylung Glupton? Explains a lot.
Why don't you ask this question on a roadie forum?
Oops, forgot it's nearly all roadies on here
You mean people who ride road bikes and MTBs?
Yes! ask your up the questions on a roadie forum.
What?
You ought to jog on to a forum for the illiterate. You'll fit right in, no one with road bikes either.
bikes have a saddle for a reason.
here endeth the sermon........ 😀
You ought to jog on to a forum for the illiterate. You'll fit right in, no one with road bikes either.
Who's illiterate then 😉
In the saddle seems to be the general consensus. But to each their own. The Sky boys spend a lot of time in the saddle and they climb well. Contador is up and down like he has ants in his pants, and he's not too shabby a climber. And Chris Horner won the Vuelta without ever sitting down.
Fatbikes are the epitome of what Monkey****er said. absolutely horrendously inefficient to pedal stood up on but will plug on fine if sat down like a sack of spuds spinning away in an appropriate gear steering in a non dynamic fashion.
a bikes inefficiency is not just about the bikes overall weight though.
the main problem with standing is that you can so easily overcook it and blow up, but you don't realise that it's the standing that causes the blow-up, you just put it down to being a tough climb.
There is use in standing to stretch a bit but don't try to climb the way you think Contador does, the elbows out, chucking the bike around is a myth, you try and keep everything straight and neat as if you had your bum on the saddle (I know...)
if you are getting out of the saddle to power through the apex on an uphill hairpin, don't - avoid the pin of the bend and go round the outside because there is no difference in distance and you just ride through bits of grit and rubbish that collects there
if you are getting out of the saddle to power through the apex on an uphill hairpin, don't - avoid the pin of the bend and go round the outside because there is no difference in distance and you just ride through bits of grit and rubbish that collects there
Eh whit?
I assume he means [i]vertical[/i] distance
I've heard someone say that if your weight (in kg) divided by your height (in inches) is < 1, then you're suited to out-of-the-seat climbing. Otherwise sit and spin.
Obviously that's just a guide. Also if it was some magical 'golden ratio' then it wouldn't mix imperial and metric units, so YMMV.
FWIW my fastest climbs (E.g. relative to the strava KOM) have been where my high gear ratios force me out of the saddle. I think this simply demonstrates a laziness and unwillingness to apply myself to REAL effort unless I have to.
If i have to get out of the saddle I walk
all depends on the gradient surely?
Obviously if you are on something like Hardknott Pass at 25%+ then these values are somewhat moot: look at this videoof The Tour of Britain on Honister Pass in 2013, all the riders are in and out of the saddle (steeper stuff starts about 4mins).
they are back in the saddle as it flattens off in sections
http://veloviewer.com/segment/642811/Honister+Pass
Jenkins Road in Sheffield, stay in the saddle and you'll be off the back of the bike
http://blog.veloviewer.com/le-cote-de-jenkin-road/
anyone sat down? nah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de8yp_jeNp0
don't forget gearing Shirley
since I went 1x10 on my rode bik, I stand up more.
Some very strong feelings out there about this. I find that standing is easier for short sharp climbs but on longer ones I just run out of steam and sitting down seems more efficient/better for longer hauls.
From an unscientific stance it feels like when I am out the saddle I am using more strength and when sat down it is more endurance.
I used to get out the saddle all the time and it took a lot of struggling up longer hills to force myself to stay down in the saddle. It is worth it though especially when mountain biking - you can't really get away with being out the saddle for too long there.
I am the heftiest in my riding group and often the last up the hills (also last down em too but I want to enjoy the view - honest). The reason I mention it is they all seem to be sitters and just spin their wheels to get up.
I agree it is personal preference but there is def some advantage to spending more time in the saddle and getting out of it in order to attack or power up a steeper part.
The Sky boys spend a lot of time in the saddle and they climb well. Contador is up and down like he has ants in his pants, and he's not too shabby a climber. And Chris Horner won the Vuelta without ever sitting down.
You'd almost think there was a sliding scale according to quantity of PEDs consumed.
I've always been a seated climber. Even trying to climb technical stuff on a mountain bike I seem to have an aversion to standing up. But, in the interests of this thread, I made a conscious effort to stand on some sections of yesterday's ride. I learn't two things:
1. I now know what pedal-induced bob means.
2. I couldn't sustain it for very long (a minute or so at best) and got lactic acid build up in bits of my thigh that I've never felt before. I don't know whether this is different muscles being used, different bits of the same muscles, or the same bits of the same muscles being used over a different range and frankly I don't care. I do know that if you want to climb standing up you'll need to train by climbing standing up.
It is worth it though especially when mountain biking - you can't really get away with being out the saddle for too long there.
Get fitter.
Too many variables for it to be a case of "x is better than y". On the road I climb out of the saddle quite a lot, but don't tend to do long climbs. It is ultimately faster, but it's a lot more tiring. Watch videos of hill climbs, folk aren't in the saddle.
If I were doing a 2 hour climb I'd not attack the bottom out of the saddle in a big gear, and if I'm approaching a 1 minute climb I won't shift right down and start spinning!
Off road isn't really any different, save the additional variable of traction. I can see on a bike squishy bike it may be.
distance through a corner when riding up hill - imagine that it's a single lane road and there is a hairpin ahead, riding into the inside corner will save about 2metres at most, compare that to the total distance you've ridden it's so insignificant; but the risk of puncture (you can get one riding slowly as well as quick) from riding in the gutter or the energy waste from trying to mash through the steepest part of the corner makes it a non-starter
So says you, I'll take shorter lines ta!
The distance saved will be entirely down to the width of the road, sharpness of the bend etc. The additional gradient will be down to camber, gradient of the road generally etc.
You still climb the same amount either way.
Not sure why you risk a puncture unless you ride actually off the inside of the road, but then you're a bit of a muppet.
distance through a corner when riding up hill - imagine that it's a single lane road and there is a hairpin ahead, riding into the inside corner will save about 2metres at most, compare that to the total distance you've ridden it's so insignificant; but the risk of puncture (you can get one riding slowly as well as quick) from riding in the gutter or the energy waste from trying to mash through the steepest part of the corner makes it a non-starter
Not sure there's any energy waste, after all the height gain is the same in both cases. Even if there is, I don't think it would be that significant. I'm also doubtful about the risk of punctures, saying you're riding in the gutter is a bit of a straw man: there's no more reason for you to ride in the inside gutter than there is to ride in the outside one.
But mainly I think you're ignoring the benefit of a change of position on the bike: ok you're not going to save much time but a quick 15-20s out of the saddle can be very welcome on a long climb.
Due to my position on the bike I find on long climbs I need to stand up every now and again for the sake of my future children.
I, as I suspect most people do, sit for the majority of the climb but do like to stand up and stretch my legs from time to time. Short, sharp climbs (up to 2 minutes absolute maximum) I will stand and sprint but bar that I'll sit.
I do think it's a lot about fitness though, there was an interview with Contador where he said as part of his training he will climb standing for 20 minutes. I'm dying at about 1/10 of that.
I train for it a bit - when I'm not bothered about performance I'll make a really conscious effort to remain out of the saddle. In those instances it's not necessarily faster, but useful to be able to do it!
No 20 minute climbs round here though, so definitely not that long 😯
The science is clear, seated on long climbs is most efficient. However, if you need short explosive changes of pace, (or just what to change position) then standing makes a lot of sense.
From yesterday's Tirreno-Adriatico: Quintana attack for the win
He attacks out of the saddle to get the gap, then sits once it's established and TT's to the line, (in pretty grim conditions; who'd be a roadie!!)
I rode up a climb today (380ft). On the harder steep bits I stood up, on the flatter smoother bits i sat down. I never thought about either of them, just do what feels right. I am sure a physiotherapist will be along to tell me I am wrong though.
I never thought about either of them, just do what feels right
Well the first bit of that is clearly a lie. 😛
Normally short climbs i stand up and in a high gear go for it. For longer climbs i sit and spin and i may stand for short periods. On very steep long climbs like on i did in italy where i had no idea how steep it was going to be until i got to the climb i stand up and grind as my suffolk gearing was a little too tall. I could have chnaged it but That would have cost money.
Ultimatleh there is no right and wrong way. If you get up without having to walk you have done in a right way.
Same applies to riding off road but the bumpier the terrian the more i stand aslo i never spin off road it is alway a low cadance effort under 60 mOstly.
climbing stood up requires fitness (obvs) but also strength and conditioning.
I used to do upto 2 hour rides on a dirt jump bike with a slammed saddle (just CBA raising it) and rode BMX for hours so thought nothing of doing 12mile trailcentre loops with 2000ft or so of climbing entirely stood up. it wasn't the most efficient way to climb or the quickest I just didn't find it uncomfortable.
I'm riding my roadbike a lot more again these days so I tend to climb seated on the mtb a lot more as a result. can still manage a 20min climb standing if I want to.