The English has the potential to be the best looking disc equipped bike yet. Some shallower wheels and a less lairy paint job and it would be spot on!
and a non integrated seatpost, and at least 14mm seatstays.
and a bit less matchy matchy.
asides from details, nice bike, and a great builder.
The English has the potential to be the best looking disc equipped bike yet. Some shallower wheels and a less lairy paint job and it would be spot on!
As I said in my earlier post, I'd be first in the queue at English Cycles on Monday morning following a lottery win! Some of their bikes are absolutely stunning - that one has gone OTT on the rims and the orange...
But at least the discs look good. 🙂
he's not the only framebuilder in the world..
Even that English?
and a non integrated seatpost, and at least 14mm seatstays.
and a bit less matchy matchy.
nope I'm ok with all of that! His Di2 integration and stuff is always v tidy too. Crazy_legs id be behind you. Remember Rob riding the Gorrick 100 on some shonky home made bike years ago, brilliant it's worked out for him!
An integrated seatpost weights more than a non integrated one in steel.
I prefer Baum's solution of painting the seatpost.
The seatstays, 14mm is thin enough, I might consider 12mm. but those look to be 8mm.
No tubing manuf. has anything below 14mm in catalogue, and even then, Columbus' high end tubing (spirit; life) has 16mm min.
Still, it all depends on who you're building for.
Bit like the twin tube bike we did years ago, on smaller sizes it was great, something medium-big and it didn't work.
that's the great thing about custom bikes, they're custom.
Do you want to look at the bike or feel safe riding downhill? Not a massive question in my mind.
njee20 - Member
The English has the potential to be the best looking disc equipped bike yet. Some shallower wheels and a less lairy paint job and it would be spot on!
Hmmm... something along the lines of
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That toptube makes me wince but for me the beauty of English's bikes is largely in the details.
emanuel - Member
he's not the only framebuilder in the world..
Soz 🙂
[quote=njee20 ]The English has the potential to be the best looking disc equipped bike yet. Some shallower wheels and a less lairy paint job and it would be spot on!
Without all the hideous stuff the discs would look just as bad as they do on all the other bikes pictured.
see ^^^
hub brakes ftw.
Brakes schmakes.
[IMG] 
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The problem with posting any of the English bikes is that the non disc ones they makes are generally beautiful. They suffer the same problem as the Colnagos earlier, they may not be some of the best looking disc road bikes about but they're still not as pretty as the non disc versions.
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one of the good things about building bikes, is that clients ask you for something you like personally
one of the bad things about building bikes, is that clients ask you for something you personally don't like.
I did this 3months ago, still don't know which of the two above is true in this case.
more pics here https://www.flickr.com/photos/94186938@N04/sets/72157640290910616/with/13152294015/
and writeup(s) here
http://revanchebikeco.wordpress.com/2014/01/30/camo-is-this-years-black/
http://revanchebikeco.wordpress.com/2014/03/01/the-trici/
http://revanchebikeco.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/camo-disc-road-bike-or-versatility/
Well for me, nice handiwork on your part. Has a bit of a path racer air about it.
Aesthetically, and that vinyl coating... It's a bit of a vomit comet.
thanks,
he's a paying client, so he's right. (sic)
though I do agree.
he covers sportscars in that stuff, so he wanted to do it to his bike.
ah well, won't/can't say more than that.
most of you will have read this already, but we accept something as pleasing esthetically when it fulfils a function.
or something like that-
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/the-problem-with-disc-brakes-in-road-racing-is-40867/
Jesus there are some honking bikes on this thread. Those Rob English bikes are proper vomit inducing.
Road bikes shouldn't have discs end of.
Also to say they are better on big alpine style descents I'd query. The scariest descent of my life was on a mtb with discs on a big hairpin road descent, the bite point was all over the shop, as they heated and cooled. Not fun. 😥
agree. there are a few situations where discs are better on the road, but lots where there isn't much benefit.
I'm sure we'll have the choice (and the chance to mutually disagree about it) for a good long time.
All, or nearly all, the road frames I'm building at the moment have disc tabs, that way, with a new fork, they've got a new bike, maybe the seatstay bridge with a hole in it isn't the prettiest thing, but it's a small price to pay to be able to 'upgrade' your bike so easily.
I just think we should all have the choice, and to be able to make an informed decision, you really have to try out things yourself.
even camo coloured bikes, it's the price of freedom.
100!
I don't really see the problem aesthetically at all.
Ditto. I like the clean look and less mess around the fork crown/seat stays.
Besides, while I tended to agree with this before I got a road bike with discs:
there are a few situations where discs are better on the road, but lots where there isn't much benefit.
having actually experienced it, I disagree. Confidence in the wet and control over hard stops in the dry is much better IME. So that's a lot more than a 'few situations'. Unless you're lucky to live somewhere dry or where you never have to brake hard 🙂
well, I spent 8ys in barcelona, I think I had about 3 wet rides in all.rolling stuff, nothing steep and long.
now in tuscany, some good hills, but tame.
braking does depend a lot on weight, I'm 70kg now I'm out of shape, fighting fit I was 67kg, so I'm never going to need that much power in any case.
so I should have said, there are a few situations where discs are better FOR ME, but lots where..etc.
🙂
Thing is, it's not really a power thing. As everyone will say, you can easily enough lock road bikes' wheels (definitely in the dry, usually in the wet if you give a moment to clear the water). It's control.
[quote=emanuel ]one of the good things about building bikes, is that clients ask you for something you like personally
one of the bad things about building bikes, is that clients ask you for something you personally don't like.
I did this 3months ago, still don't know which of the two above is true in this case.
Well I suppose with a paying client's bike you have to avoid being too disparaging. Personally that simply confirms my earlier assertion:
[quote=aracer ]Is this thread a competition to post the most gopping disk brake road bike, because they're steadily getting worse!
...and I'm waiting to see what can possibly trump it!
Aracer, sometimes its like that, tho sometimes (often, thankfully) it's great.
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this could do with discs, might as well go all the way.
Well, if you will insist on building with lugs then of course you'll be forced into silly designs...
If you think 650b steamrolled the MTB market just wait two years. You won't be able to buy a road bike without discs.
I'm all for it because I live in a mountainous wet climate where rim brakes are a joke.
Clubber;
About 80% of the stuff we do is lugless fillet brazed, agree completely, though there are some modern lugs (35mm dowtube) they're few and far between, plus they add a bit of weight, and the look is wrong for a lot of bikes.
I do have a thing for bilaminate lugs, you can do the angles you want, and have some lugness in your bike, depending on the bike, it looks great.
got a disc braked roadie coming up soonish, I'll put it up, just hope we can agree to a paintjob we both like, though it is his, so as long as he's happy, so am I. besides, paint is cheap enough to change once every few years.
JCL, agree. I've retrofit a lot of frames lately, easy enough with steel.
as soon as dics hit the 105 group it'll explode.
of course, if you go custom you can buy what you like, did a bike with these a few years ago.
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ah deraileurs, all those bits, hanging off, what's that all about..
🙂
Discs on those Zipp wheels just look wrong imo.
From page 2
"Lots of things make a bike ugly:
Any frame design other than thin, straight round steel tubes.
Deep section rims.
Black components (not including cables, saddles, tyres or bar tape).
Slammed stems.
Stickers.
Cross levers.
But discs?
Discs are fine, providing all the above rules are followed. "
Apart from [i]maybe[/i] the stems.
As for the need, hmm but I have yet to find a disadvantage with discs. Most definitely more powerful for those of us with shorter fingers and I have yet to have a problem locking them up as I use my brain when applying.
Actually there is a problem. Finding rims without brake tracks. Some but not many.
Any frame design other than thin, straight round steel tubes.
Deep section rims.
Black components (not including cables, saddles, tyres or bar tape).
Slammed stems.
Stickers.
Cross levers.
With the exception of a slammed stem, that describes my bike 🙂
FWIW, I think classic steel frames look ugly, especially when built with lugs.
Pretty soon then. It's a good thing, race-replica bikes are nice enough but anything that makes people who don't race question whether they want that or something that offers other functional benefits or more wide-ranging use is a good thing imo.as soon as dics hit the 105 group it'll explode.
I agree generally, classic-looking road bikes are the only truly aesthetically pleasing bikes out there but as soon as you add stuff for performance (di2 or discs, most carbon frames imo, or suspension on mtbs etc) they don't look as 'pretty' and become more of a functional product. That's all ok, bikes should be function over form, just try to keep some balance.
I'm all for discs on road bikes. I don't race and I'd like more freedom in rims, tyres, guards (ie clearances) etc so they're a plus for me. I don't care about adding a pound or more in weight to a bike that's already that light. If I wanted a pretty road bike it'll be an older one where I'll accept lower performance in many areas so it's a non-issue there. Personally form always comes second so as much as I love the look of an old Italian road bike I doubt I'll ever own one.
Philistine.. : )I think classic steel frames look ugly, especially when built with lugs.
Luddite! 🙂
If you think 650b steamrolled the MTB market just wait two years. You won't be able to buy a road bike without discs.
Utter bobbins. They'll become more popular, but road bikes are too led by the pro-tour scene, and there's no way they'll be universal in that time. It took 10 years for them to be universal in MTB XC racing, where the downsides were far fewer and more debatable. Considering they're not even allowed in competition at the moment it's quite a way until they're ubiqitous.
I'm with Clubber, never really liked those older style frames.
Disc brakes have their place, my missus loves hers on the roadie, more control, less tiring, more power. I removed a aluminium fork at the same time so there wasn't a weight penalty at all. Bags more confidence in the wet. Happy days
I'll have a tenner on the UCI moving quicker to allow discs in competition faster than they've done with other new stuff in the past.
They're certainly talking about it but practical issues are making it difficult - they'll need to mandate disc use and then disc size and spacing so that neutral service can supply wheels (and they're claiming to avoid crashes when people have different braking ability but I'm less convinced by this).
That's going to be a bit of a jump given that there are teams who don't want to swap over, particularly once you move outside of the protour to teams who actually have to pay for their equipment and don't want to buy a load of new bikes/wheels.
Sure, practically it's pita job to make it work but I suspect they'll ok it and let the teams figure it out. Costs to sponsors won't be an issue to a body that has an interest in having the best-funded teams racing. Many of them will have spent a lot more than that on dope in the past anyway )
Neutral support is the biggest hurdle I can see - dunno how that could work. Generally I can't swap wheels with same hub, rotor and caliper models between 2 bikes w/o a bit of adjustment. A bit off the looks debate.. interesting tho
So you only allow protour teams to race at protour events with no continental teams allowed unless they have discs? And then what do the continental teams do at non-protour teams? Do they have disc and non-disc bikes or is that at the next level or...?
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End of thread!
[url= http://www.donhoubicycles.com/sams-continental/ ]Tom's version[/url]
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7323/14095764731_0656ec2373_c.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/parkesiemtb/14095764731/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/parkesiemtb/ ]Parkesiemtb[/url], on Flickr
[img] 
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http://revanchebikeco.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/painting-the-29er/
Granted, it's not a road bike, but asides from geo, the rest is pretty similar, any thoughts?
So many mingin bikes on here! Oh my god! That cannondale with discs and enves?! It'd feel like you were constantly doing a wheelie every time you got on it, not a road bike, that is a very expensive hybrid!
That Volagi is gorgeous 🙂
Maybe beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I happen to like the look. Particularly seated on the bike, they are very neat.
Somewhat contentious around these parts I know, but I have gone disc and electronic on both my road and CX bikes, and whatever you might think about the looks, you can't argue against the performance.
[URL= http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/solarider/DSC00302_zps200aad30.jp g" target="_blank">
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/solarider/DSC00302_zps200aad30.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
[URL= http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/solarider/DSC00304_zps8b8b48d6.jp g" target="_blank">
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/solarider/DSC00304_zps8b8b48d6.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
Oh no I've been sick again 😥
Those Moots are very dull looking, and the geometry looks wrong from the photo.
I'm starting to worry, since if the boutique builders can make a nice looking disc road bike, what hope have Trek, Giant, Specalized etc. got?
The head tube on that Moots jumps out at me as ugly.
Ok, here goes:
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7061/14113477665_33f59fde25.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/8373828@N08/14113477665/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/8373828@N08/ ]sanename[/url], on Flickr
I think it's pretty, although admittedly I've only just built it and if disks are as bad as the neighsayers say, it'll be the ugliest bike I own. 🙂
A bike with a headtube that length and that number of spacers is never going to be pretty.
Phew - after some pictures of bikes which weren't completely gopping it's nice to know we're back to proving the point in the title of the thread.
Is it about time to vote for the most gopping bike on this thread?
Given the one at the top of this page doesn't count in the context of the thread, my vote goes to emmanuel's first entry http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/road-bikes-with-disks-are-ugly/page/3#post-5972071
Utter bobbins. They'll become more popular, but road bikes are too led by the pro-tour scene, and there's no way they'll be universal in that time. It took 10 years for them to be universal in MTB XC racing, where the downsides were far fewer and more debatable. Considering they're not even allowed in competition at the moment it's quite a way until they're ubiqitous.
When the UCI legalizes it which isn't far off it'll happen with the pro scene almost overnight.
The industry pressure for the switch is huge.
^^ and the concerns from the ProTour are huge too.
To this end there will probably be a few races where they're tried out, maybe in two years time, by which time most Sportive bikes will have them and therein lies the definition, Sportive or Endurance bikes and ProTour replicas.
I know which one I'll be riding.
I think discs on ProTour replicas (of which my R5ca is and my Parlee Z4 isn't) will not appear for about two years, then they'll be dismissed as both heavy and cumbersome and a pita to change wheels etc so they'll be dropped.
I would hate to see my R5ca with discs, it'd look shite 😉
No it'll be ALL road bikes. I recommend speaking to R&D from a larger manufacturer who's three years ahead in product planning...
I am not so sure that the wheel swapping will be a problem. I bet things standardise. I reckon 160mm but I may be wrong. Apart from that what else can be wrong? I swap disc wheels willly nilly and never have an issue. Rim brakes however have differing profiles and its less easy to endure that they are all the same. I guess if you have to take a neutral cars wheels perfect brakes may not be the first thing to worry about but with discs there is pretty well an industry standard. It ma not go down well but I foresee a time when discs in the leisure market become huge sellers, at least above the bargain price range and below the top end race replica.
I'm converted .
I really like this one, (green one is even betterer) not 100% sure why but considering it for wet/winter duties.
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Luddite bikes FTW!
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(I would 'slam that stem' if the head tube was longerer but the height of the bar compared to the saddle seems pretty good to me like this)
Well as long as there's still a choice I won't mind, and I'll be more than happy to stay with calipers IME modern dual pivots are peerless.
This is my 'own' take on things.
40 years of faultless braking in racing in all weathers. Never in my entire life have I been with anyone that's had a rim brake fail. Even the canti's on my loaded up audax bike stop perfectly. And days descending in the Alps and Pyrenees without issue.
Whereas discs, pads wearing in a day, pads popping out, accidental pulls on the lever whilst wheels out, overheating on descents. Even in this years local CX league disc bikes were having problems, from constant rub to loss of pads completely.
My main gripe though is that dinner plates on wheels look gopping.
They still look ugly on a nice XC bike, I'm a bit 'less is more' and if less works why do you need more?
However I think this is driven by people who want, who want Carbon/electric/deep profile/discs.
My 'drawing board' bike is the standard track bike as used in the hour, add a set of brakes and anything that'll get me up a 20% climb that'll do me.
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Discs are the future and they will grow on us.
JCL, true, but niche is the new black,there will always be options.
Oldgit, right as usual.
Jacob46, true.
Aracer,thanks! what do I win?
I think a gopping paintjob (like the camo bike I posted), is a gopping paintjob, no matter if you have discs of cantis or dual pivots.
Now, most of the bikes on this thread look pretty similar, the only difference in a lot of cases is the paintjob.
And paint comes and goes into fashion, the current retro revival aesthetic is coming to an end.
Paint, it's important, I'd say most bikes are sold on paint. but it's only paint, I'm sure if and when the owner of that bike gets tired of how it looks he'll strip it down and repaint it.
Personally, I like the looks of brakes integrated into the fork, and under the chainstays, but both are more expensive and harder to work on.
So, discs aside.
What makes a good paintjob?
Here's what I've come up with.
Emphasizes the structure.
Ages well.
Defines the use a bike will see, ie, a dh bike is going to have different colours to a randonneur
Most importantly, I think, you should like it, it doesn't matter if it's actually good looking or not.
So if you want a swedish m90 camo in chrome pink and yellow, why not?
I've been riding a road bike with big tyres / light wheels and discs for a while. This moring I was on a light road bike with racey angles and caliper brakes on a couple of wet and risky descents that I don't know too well.
I'm very much looking forward to getting back onto discs - and for a long time I've said that my winter bike didn't need discs as I go slower in the wet anyway, etc. All that stuff about not needing them. Add some tyres that can cope with the brakes a bit better and it's all quite different. Stuff the looks.
Tyres need pumping up on that Pinarello.
[quote=emanuel ]Aracer,thanks! what do I win?
I think a gopping paintjob (like the camo bike I posted), is a gopping paintjob, no matter if you have discs of cantis or dual pivots.
Sorry, no prizes. You are correct and admittedly it's horrible enough that you tend not to notice the discs quite as much as on something more aesthtically pleasing, though discs certainly make a nice bike look less nice. The Enigma up there I think comes closest to not looking all that bad, but I suspect that's probably the lighting making the discs less obvious.
Discs are the future and they will grow on us.
Just like obesity has.
Rode down a 1:4 on Saturday. I wished I had discs.
Rode down a 1:4 on Saturday. I wished I had discs.
You wished you had better brakes. Everyone complaining needs to invest in some better brake blocks. I have never felt the need for discs and that includes when I was coming down Hardknott and Honister in the rain. Campagnolo Athena brakes were plenty powerful enough and had enough modulation too.
Discs are ugly, heavier, not as easy to use or set up and are being pushed by the same folk who brought us 650b. Mountain bikers. Enuff said 😉
Sounds like you need to ride your bike a bit more, tubby.Just like obesity has.
To this end there will probably be a few races where they're tried out, maybe in two years time, by which time most Sportive bikes will have them and therein lies the definition, Sportive or Endurance bikes and ProTour replicas.I know which one I'll be riding.
I think discs on ProTour replicas (of which my R5ca is and my Parlee Z4 isn't) will not appear for about two years, then they'll be dismissed as both heavy and cumbersome and a pita to change wheels etc so they'll be dropped.
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/road/tarmac/sworks-tarmac-disc
Top Specialized Tarmac for 2015...
I have never felt the need for discs and that includes when I was coming down Hardknott and Honister in the rain
Try doing it at a fast pace then
Neutral support is the biggest hurdle I can see - dunno how that could work.
Neutral support will end, too many options to cover. How much is it used these days, anyone have any recent reports? (havnt watched any races recently). Which race was it where Cadel and others rode over tacks, sure they waited for the team car?
If you think it might be possible to get the UCI to legislate it, too late.
Longer chainstays would obviously impact the handling of the Tarmac, so instead they have [b]developed a new rear hub that places the cassette further inboard, along with a custom dropout that locates the rear derailleur inboard[/b] as well, to maintain clean shifting.
[url= http://road.cc/content/news/118524-specialized-launch-new-tarmac-disc-brake-option#comment-254220 ]specialized-launch-new-tarmac-disc-brake-option[/url]
Interesting solution to the chainline on the new Spesh. I think adding a couple of mm to the chainline for doubles would work for more bikes but only SRAM offering that at the mo, basically a double on an MTB-like chainline.
here is mine .
[URL= http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/cchris2lou/IMG_20140510_172812_zps843744b5.jp g" target="_blank">
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/cchris2lou/IMG_20140510_172812_zps843744b5.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
I have never felt the need for discs and that includes when I was coming down Hardknott and Honister in the rain
Try doing it at a fast pace then
TBH The contact patch of the tyre would be my concern, not bigger brakes. Only in the Alps have I wished on a couple of occasions for a bit more braking power than calipers on ally rims can offer, Carbon rims in the wet on the other hand.....
TBH it's not the pros who need disc brakes, it's average cyclists who can't afford to replace their rims/wheels every 2-3 years (depending on usage). To have a braking system that relies on wearing away a fundamental structural element of the bike each time they are used is ridiculous.
Not to mention poor braking performance in wet weather around vehicles who don't want them to be there and the poor state of the roads that increases the chance of buckled wheels
[quote=mikey74 ]To have a braking system that relies on wearing away a fundamental structural element of the bike each time they are used is ridiculous.
Indeed, which is why rim brakes don't rely on that. I've never had to replace a rim on a road bike due to brake wear.
I think that with carbon rims it can be a good idea.
you're keeping the same system weight but lighter rim weight.
plus more reliable wet/dry performance.
A bit like the move from steel to alloy rims, apart from the brakes being changed.
Indeed, which is why rim brakes don't rely on that. I've never had to replace a rim on a road bike due to brake wear
They do though, don't they?
Just because you haven't caused enough wear for them to need replacing doesn't mean they weren't being worn.
Decent pads on carbon rims have never stopped me from braking hard to a stop, ever. Decent pads on alloy rims have never stopped me braking hard to a stop, neither.
I think it's just an overkill situation for a solution that doesn't really exist, but I'm happy if you want to ride with them, if you feel they'll help you then off you go, trott on.
They're ugly and unsightly and a pita to change/maintain and I can't see them heading that way for racing for a good number of years yet, if ever.
Hey ho
Indeed, which is why rim brakes don't rely on that. I've never had to replace a rim on a road bike due to brake wear.
Of course, there is a braking surface that is in addition to the structure of the rim: However, once that is worn through you are into compromising the integrity of the rim structure itself and therefore the rim needs to be replaced and that is not a cheap, or an easy exercise, at least compared to changing disc brake pads or rotors.
I know pro racing tends to drive the development of road bikes, However, in this case it should be the needs of the public that should drive the development of the type of bikes they will be buying.