RIP Tweedlove

It's not just mountain bikers. If you look at the majority of kids sports most parents just drop of their kids and never get involved. I've done my fair share of helping out with fundraising and volunteering but I'm damned if I'm going to let others take the piss and let a handful do everything. With a big event like Tweedlove I'm sure there's only so many times you can go to the volunteer well.

We run a pumptrack every year we ask for volunteers to help every year no one comes forward. Every year folk complain that nothing gets organized.

Aye...it isn't just the big events that have this issue...and also isn't just mountain biking or kids sports. Before covid the issue was there just the number of volunteers needed that hadn't already stepped up was a lower number. Now post COVID and it seems far more people aren't interested in getting involved. It is across the board in everything.

@chakaping

This is definitely the hardest thing I’ve had to write during the whole 15 year TweedLove journey, and it’s with a heavy heart I have to announce that there will be no TweedLove events in 2025 or beyond. After several difficult years keeping everything afloat, these final races over the next couple of months will be our last.

Dunno what other events he'll be involved in, Tweedlove is the company, not just the festival/race series.

@snotrag the NN is a decent slog but honestly not all that difficult, I did it on a Trailstar LT. If you could drop the stepdown at Ae there wasn't anything particularly knarly.

@squirrelking my suggestion was that the marketing might be the issue, not neccesarily the reality of the trails!

One of the other issues I think is offering value for money. You can go and ride the valley trails pretty much any day of the year for free, so your paying for the race side of it, timing system, Marshall’s etc etc and whatever the other festival side of it benefits of the event are. Personally I’m not bothered about putting a race number on my bike to ride stuff I can ride the rest of the year anyway. As a result if there isn’t a value proposition from the festival side of the event then why bother?

As a result if there isn’t a value proposition from the festival side of the event then why bother?

If the Trailbuilders charged you to ride the trails they'd put their time & money into would that change your view?

You can go and ride the valley trails pretty much any day of the year for free, so your paying for the race side of it, timing system, Marshall’s etc etc and whatever the other festival side of it benefits of the event are. Personally I’m not bothered about putting a race number on my bike to ride stuff I can ride the rest of the year anyway.

Umm, sounds like you were never the target market then.

my suggestion was that the marketing might be the issue, not neccesarily the reality of the trails!

Ah, fair. TBH I don't know how it compares to other events, it's the only one I've done barring the MacAvalanche. The former was DH level trails I remember from way back whilst the latter's quali stages were blue and red trails that needed a lot of pedalling. Point being they're possibly trying to avoid a bunch of Barracuda Bobs hurting themselves when they find themselves miles from anywhere and completely out their depth.

Personally I’m not bothered about putting a race number on my bike to ride stuff I can ride the rest of the year anyway.

This is much how I feel. I'll pay for Boltby and Ard Rock for example but I'd rather ride them without all of the other people there. "Racing" them is the only option but that's not the case for the Scottish trails. It's also difficult to judge the levels of some of the events, and I'd rather not waste my money on something that I'd be out of my depth on and not enjoy.

I hear what he says about the local authority being short sighted, but from their side, their budgets are so squeezed right now, there are L.A.’s that are going bankrupt

Neil wasn't really criticising the council, as they have generally been supportive of events, and provided funding and help where possible, but his dig was aimed at select councillors, who basically don't like bikers.

To give an idea of what Neil was up against at times, the Community Council Leader once said that "TweedLove brings nothing to the community and doesn't benefit local businesses".

<em style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246/0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;">Didrounds up in scotland. PMBA also shut up shop last week.

Not quite yet. PMBA's final round is in just over a week at Ae, in the form of the first BC sanctioned National Champs since the de-affiliation quite a few years ago (I can't actually remember if there was a sanctioned National Champs at that time...)

Kev has put a lot of work into the whole re-affiliation with BC, so I think it's only fair that he gets to run the first one. Although I don't think even he was planning on it being his last ever event.

Forestry Commission in the valley are apparently very difficult to work with. The trails on the inners side for example get zero maintenance. There’s been a couple of high profile digs of very short sections, but general necessary maintenance is zero from the forestry commission. Adrenaline Uplift have been pushing for ages to take on some of that work and the forestry simply won’t allow it. I get the liability angle, but it’s not an unsolvable problem. It just seems like a lot of barriers to getting the work done.

The trail fairies are no more. TVTA have a very limited number of trails they’re allowed to work on.

FLS are a typical public body, with lots of hoops to jump through, some quite restrictive rules, and have been short staffed for the past few years, however Adrenalin have been doing maintenance work on the main DH tracks for a good few months now.

Trailfairies do still exist, just not been on due to a shortage of staff.

TVTA do seem to be in a bit of disarray just now due to a few reasons, but their remit is limited to trails that they have adopted, but adoption on any further trails in the near future isn't likely to happen.

I blame ebikes, probably

Participation is definitely down significantly.

Looking at the recent Tweedlove International race in June, they had about 250 entrants.

I'm not sure where you got the 250 number from, but there were nearly 400 people started on the day.

However to use that as a basis for a discussion about numbers, TweedLove have largely bucked the trend among similar organisers in terms of maintaining entry numbers since Covid. Nobody really knows the reason the exact reasons why, other than they're good events, but some of the other organisers I'd say have had equally as good events, just without the non-racing bits, yet some of those event numbers have noticeably dropped.

I think the big driver is people just don't have money, so they are prioritising which events they do. If you still want to do and can only afford one or two events, do you do one or two proven events with a good track record of people having fun, or risk an event with a patchy record?

I’m not sure where you got the 250 number

Ah, my bad, I didnt look at the seeded numbers. Bizarrely it's not on R&R but Id looked at the sportident results. Looks like it was just under 400

https://www.sportident.co.uk/results/TweedLove/2024/International/

Hi mc,

Tried to get in touch with Trailfairies and got no reply, and there's been nothing posted on the facebook page in years. Are you sure they are still on the go?

And having tried to get simple info from FLS, I can well imagine just how difficult they are to deal with. Obstructive and evasive doesn't begin to describe it.

@mtnboarder they're not running at the moment. Last conversation I had regarding them with FLS was a few months ago.

They've not been forgotten about, but the relative FLS staff had been very stretched due to the other major things going on at Glentress, although things were improving and they had been hoping to get them started before the summer. However FLS have been very quiet lately, and I've not had any chats with them for a while to find out what the current status is.

Trail fairies

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/tvta-trail-digging-tickets-941855343687

https://www.tweedvalleytrails.org/

TVTA is not the Trail Fairies. All a bit People's Front of Judea/ Judean People's Front but TVTA are down the golfie and the fairies are glentress

Started as a fun, exciting race series. Ended up a cash grab family day out. You could predict what trails were going to be used months in advance, little to no remedial work carried out on the trails afterwards. The whole post seems arrogant and self pitying to be honest, everything runs its course.

There used to be a local race we had called enduraloo, random trails all over the valley and then a curry. Racing with mates and all the laughs and memories that go with it, that’s the “spirit” of enduro and it’s what tweedlove forgot about.

Dunno what other events he’ll be involved in, Tweedlove is the company, not just the festival/race series.

My mistake, I misunderstood this from his blog:

I’ll now be concentrating on other projects with the remaining core staff at Hillside Outside

I always understood that hillside outside was the company. Also that tweedlove made no profit.

@Brake-neck I got into a Facebook argument when I pointed out what you raise. Fortunately I applied the wrestling with pigs rule and left it pretty quickly.

If the Trailbuilders charged you to ride the trails they’d put their time & money into would that change your view?

If the charge was reasonable I would pay. I pay to ride uplift sites. I pay parking fees that allegedly, not that I believe it, go towards the cost of trail maintenance. This might be because it’s a trip for us to go and ride so we usually manage a week a year. Whether those more local would be happy to pay is another matter. Having said that you could offer those wanted to free access in return for volunteer time to help maintain them

I live locally and the enduro races don't interest me. The trails are the same as I'd ride anyway, and I'd ride them in the same way whether it's a regular ride or an enduro race. The family festival bit doesn't apply to me or any or my mates and I can only think of one who's entered any of them and he's a sponsored enduro rider so doesn't really have any choice. People from outside the area probably see it differently, as a special trip on carefully selected trails they'd struggle to find otherwise.

However, GT7 is a different kettle of fish. You're racing against other people around you, which you don't do normally, and with places swapping all over the place, the odd fist fight breaking out and a single base to come back to it's not like a normal ride at all, so is worth paying for.

Got the email last night. Sorry to see this go to be honest, have done a bit of volunteering and had a go at some of the events. Always really liked both sides of it. Brought quite a bit into the valley (people and money). Sad times really, hope something comes out the other side of this and survives

I always understood that hillside outside was the company. Also that tweedlove made no profit.

Uh, one of us is right and I have no idea who it is!

Hillside Outside is Neil's company which runs (ran) Tweedlove as well as Tour of the Borders- which will continue for next year at least.

Events like this got too serious, too expensive and lost their vibe at least for me. I did the Naughty Northumbrian in 2019 and it was demanding in all the wrong ways for me.

I turned up 2 minutes late for my set off time and was scolded by the organiser at 8am after a terrible night's sleep and when we got to the stages they weren't setting people off at their prescribed times anyway so it didn't even matter. The day before on practice day I'd crashed quite hard and got shouted at by the rider behind for not getting up quick enough for him to continue his practice run uninterrupted. Tosser.

We were hung over and sleeping in a field with no tap water surrounded by people in 80 grand VW transporters, bright lights in their shade tents and generators left running all night who probably had a far comfier nights sleep than me.

Obviously not Tweedlove but it put me off bothering with enduro events after that. At least with the NN you were riding good trails that you couldn't otherwise do the yest of the year. I can ride anything from Tweedlove for free whenever I fancy.

Used to do loads of racing, both downhill and enduro but pretty much gave up on enduro pre Covid as it seemed to of changed to a sort of wishy washy multi stage dh race without any of the interesting track features. One of the best stages I remember was at a tweedlove at Glentress, top of ho chi min, to the fort then down to the hydro, 15 minute stage with a decent fire road climb in the middle. Now it’s all 5 3 minute stages with no physical effort. Also remember another tweedlove where the transition time between 2 stages was a bit tight, a few of us grand vets, who went off first made it but as more people failed they scratched the time limit cos people were complaining it was a bit hard.

He also runs a Hillside Creative Agency,  but that pretty much runs itself with staff I think.

@airvent oddly the opposite experience for me, same year.

I left well early to make it round and nobody was bothered, was going round with decent folk (Thanks to the guy who fed me drumsticks on the way back up to stage 6) and had parked well away from the herd. Can appreciate how that could colour your perception mind, the practice day was a riot as well!

One of the best stages I remember was at a tweedlove at Glentress, top of ho chi min, to the fort then down to the hydro, 15 minute stage with a decent fire road climb in the middle. Now it’s all 5 3 minute stages with no physical effort.

This sounds like more fun and more of an adventure. Probably harder to take seriously/train and prepare for those at the top.

Apparently you and I are in a minority though, and what the people want is repeatable, rollable downhills with minimal aerobic effort.

One of the best stages I remember was at a tweedlove at Glentress, top of ho chi min, to the fort then down to the hydro, 15 minute stage with a decent fire road climb in the middle. Now it’s all 5 3 minute stages with no physical effort.

That was an EWS, back when EWS was interesting. And before FLS bulldozed the trail...

It's fun to think of ways to turn enduro into a bike race (or some hybrid variant), rather than a time trial, that would put a very different complexion on things - attract different types of riders. Given it's in the doldrums it's prob the right time to be thinking of new things, it is really hard to see how this could be made to work (format and practicalities of land access), and would basically be unappealing to the majority of punters.

I suspect the format we have is the one that suits the most people best, and the sport needs a refresh of people and venues after the first / second generation of organisers have built the discipline. I wouldn't expect these people to just naturally spring up, either, given the spectacularly thankless task that is race organisation. Organising and engaging people for anything is hard these days, let alone a multi-stage MTB event.

To be fair I was always of the opinion that enduro events should have at least an up stage and not be all winch and plummet. Where only the downs count.

As a fat and lazy rider, I'm not convinced by including uphill!

A variety of stages, both in style and length would peak my interest, and longer transitions to make it more of a journey.

Back in the mists of time when the mtb-borders forum ran and we met for rides. We had an annual event. Last one was a timed section up corby linn, times down the quarry off 3B, complete an easy soduko at bottom, times through mullets, a memorize these numbers (I had a sharpie, so wrote them on my thigh) time penalties for mistakes. Next section was back up SUW but you had to take a painted rock from the quarry, big ones were obvious pebbles were hidden.  Last was a banzia race down corbie linn Then pub and curry. Think it was "marshalled" by 4 folk and some walkie talkies.

Back in the mists of time when the mtb-borders forum ran and we met for rides. We had an annual event. Last one was a timed section up corby linn, times down the quarry off 3B, complete an easy soduko at bottom, times through mullets, a memorize these numbers (I had a sharpie, so wrote them on my thigh) time penalties for mistakes. Next section was back up SUW but you had to take a painted rock from the quarry, big ones were obvious pebbles were hidden.  Last was a banzia race down corbie linn Then pub and curry. Think it was “marshalled” by 4 folk and some walkie talkies.

that was the only sporting event that I’ve ever won in my life. I’ve still got the thermal top that Walter blagged from a bike shop for first prize.  I can’t remember if it was for overall win or if I just won the climb up Corby Linn but I’m still proud!

All Enduro racing should include an element of uphill IMO.

It's turned into Downhill racing without an uplift in many events, and I don't think that's right.

BoardinBob Full Member
TVTA is not the Trail Fairies. All a bit People’s Front of Judea/ Judean People’s Front but TVTA are down the golfie and the fairies are glentress

TVTA is indeed not the Trailfairies but I don't think there's any real competition between them. Trailfairies is organised by the FLS's MTB rangers and so focuses on maintenance of waymarked trails and has created a few new trails that fit into FLS's own plans. It's mostly done work at Glentress but has done work at Innerleithen too. TVTA is about the "unofficial" trails that are in the valley.

Though sadly using the present tense for the Trailfairies activities isn't quite right, as it's been on hiatus for a couple of years now.

@mtnboarder - I try to respond to any trailbuilding inquiries sent to the Trailfairies' Facebook page, apologies if I missed yours! (I'm not part of FLS but a few volunteer Trailfairies have helped with the Facebook page and given the workload the rangers seem to have had that mean it's mainly been volunteers responding to messages recently.)

For any brand, proposition, service or product to be successful it has to meet three criteria:

Desireability, Viability, Feasibility.

Desireability - people want it.

Viability - people will pay for it and that will cover the cost of running it.

Feasibility - you have the capability to deliver it.

Enduro racing has generally waned in mass Desireability - it's become old hat and not the new trendy thing anymore.

The lower numbers, and rising cost of everything needed to run the events means the cost is significant magnitudes higher than 10 years ago. People are less willing to pay to ride trails that are free to ride any of the other 364 days of the year, which can now be easily navigated through TrailForks, compounded with that lower desireability, means it's very hard to make a profit out of Enduro racing so it's become non-viable.

Due to the lack of profit to re-invest in the business because of this non-viability, the capability to deliver an enduro race is massively reduced as we can't pay for all the staff needed. Which means it's not feasiable to put on enduro races at the scale they were previously.

All of this has been pretty clear and predictable for a while now.

What survivor brands do in situations like this is re-look at the strategy - starting with Desireability. There's no point making something more feasible or viable if no one wants it. This is where many brands go wrong, they tinker with how they deliver the same thing, instead of innovating the business itself.

In the coming years we'll see innovation in the types of events that are put on, testing the waters to see what people actually want after more than a decade of the same kind of thing on the same kind of trails with the same kind of people.

Then we'll see innovation in new business models that will turn a profit, with some building new, exciting brands around that changed proposition and business model.

Nothing ever stands still - the end of something now is the beginning of something brand new tomorrow.

Thanks ChrisL,

Not sure how much goodwill I have to put into volunteering any more- FLS have been nothing short of obstructive and incompetent for years now. The cabin debacle, the Worlds and the new trails have all been mismanaged to the point where Glentress is a worse place for all the public investment directed to it.

I’m genuinely curious as to how much public money people think should be used to subsidise a commercial business. Of course TL brings huge local benefits but so do other businesses and events. They have, over the years, received significant public money, both in time and grants. But they are still a commercial venture and they need to be able to stand on their own feet. I’m not sure if I am entirely comfortable at suggestion, however slight, that public bodies are responsible for their success or otherwise.

There's nothing wrong with public funds being used to subsidise a business if that venture subsequently brings other benefits to the area - I'm thinking tourism mostly. There does have to be a sensible cut-off point though and, as has already been pointed out above, in these times of austerity it's harder to provide that funding.

I agree that commercial entities should be self supporting to a large degree, but where is the cutoff? Do we direct the funding towards Olympic medals or encouraging participation in the young and at grass roots level? Which has more benefit?

The waste of public money in supporting events like the Worlds XC which created zero tangible benefit for riders or local businesses (apart from ESO who readily scooped up cash). The knock on effect of effectively closing Glentress during the summer holiday period and delaying the new new trail development badly hit many businesses financially, not just Tweedlove. The promised legacy, so shouted about by DMBinS (also publicly funded, and of minimal tangible benefit IME) has been nothing beyond a pile of rocks and a sign.

Outside of the financial side, Tweedlove suffered probably more through the hinderance of the public bodies, rather than the lack of financial support though. Active campaigning saw the banning of Tour of the Borders by the Council and at a local level there has been much opposition from the community council.

saw the banning of Tour of the Borders by the Council

that’s simply not true. SBC never banned the event. They wanted to consult on alternative routes. They never banned the event.  for balance, the councils detailed statement is contained in this article.

https://road.cc/content/news/tour-o-borders-organiser-slams-disingenuous-council-301947

Sorry- "effective banning" would have been more accurate.

The consultation on alternative routes was done extensively. A large number of alternative options were looked at and none were suitable. Off the back of that SBC made it effectively impossible to run on that basis.

Next year it will be back to the original route, which did work.

Trail fairies.

Just spotted on Facebook - trail fairies are back in action on 17th August...

So sad this, I was lucky enough to be there from day one, I'd quit xc style racing but the gt7 dragged me back in, then those first 2 EWS rounds were just incredible. Dug, raced and marshalled and loved it. I think special mention for the accessibility of it, while it feels like so many organisers were in an arms race and obsessed with chasing the top end, being a knobber in a tweedlove race has always felt great. I was like 278th in the first ews but felt like a bloody champion

hatter
Full Member

*waves* Councillor here, I cannot really overstate how squeezed local government budgets are right now, we also have a huge swath of services that we are legally obliged to provide (i.e. bin collections) so when the costs of all those go up and our funding doesn’t all the ‘nice to have but not legally mandated’ stuff is where the cuts have to fall.

Borders council is almost certainly going to end up poorer from this though. Like other things, tweedlove and biking in general has been a golden goose that the council and local businesses have been happy to reap the benefits of but few wanted to actually feed it. And there'll be plenty complaining now it's had the temerity to die.

Whilst I agree that government money shouldn't prop private businesses up, it is clear for anybody trying to book accommodation, have a meal or grab a pint during Tweedlove that it does bring a lot of extra people to the area.

I cant help but think the weather being so bad this year may have put the final nail in the coffin? If it was dry and warm, would it have been more successful with vendors making more money and everybody being happier?

It does seem peoples attitudes to mass events and racing has changed. Before COVID there were loads of events, all well supported. I used to do a few Gorrick or Evans events as it got me riding somewhere different and it was good to have a beer and some food afterwards but I started to get fed up with it being too busy (I know, I paid money and contributed to the traffic) so I stopped doing them and started exploring more on my own with an OS map and trailforks. Now I like nothing more than an off piste ride where I hardly see another person.