[Closed] RIP Tinbred ebb

Gets in a crate of cider, pulls up the comfiest chair in the house, phones for a big **** off pizza and awaits the thread of the century....

Do on-one not offer some kind of half-price warranty replacement? must check that out as my inbred died recently...

Inbreds - thought they were pretty much bomb proof?

Yowsers. I'd be trying trying to get some form of warranty replacement on that, myself.....

*orders new armchair, gets beer pumped in from local brewery, orders family meal and crate of buckfast just to be sure*

Pisser!

Yep, give O-O a shout mate.

Hmm, my Inbred was creaking a lot on the last ride. Maybe I should wash it and give it a check over?

Ive contacted on-one and sent them the pics to see what they say.

My main concern is that they dont make an ebb Ti hardtail anymore so the simple smooth lines in either ss or rohloff mode will be lost forever.

Ti frames... 'the last frame you'll ever buy'. Thats what they're usually billed as aren't they?

Blimey, I thought Ti was bomb proof!

titanium. a bike for life. what a load of twaddle.

Ti frames are definately not bomb proof but they do ride well until they break 😀

too much heat in the weld up.
welding is impeccable tho........... 8)

urban-myth a-go-go!

Could have been quite nasty that!

I don't think anyone actually markets Ti frames as bomb proof.

Great strength to weigh ratio, yes. But not necessarily stronger than all.

I think it's a more a perception amongst buyers that because they're spending so much on a frame, it's gonna last forever or at least outlive an equivalent quality steel or alu frame.

I'm gutted for you. Steel is real. And it lasts a darn sight longer. Titanium cracks. In the end.

Steel is real. And it lasts a darn sight longer.

And aluminium is imaginary?

All bikes break, some slightly more often than others.

I was under the impression the people who made the first Tinbreds were the same people who made GT Titanium Xizang frames. Probably wrong, guess Brant will put me right. Shame though always wanted one but couldn't afford one at the time.

[i]'the last frame you'll ever buy'. Thats what they're usually billed as aren't they? [/i]

Because you'll never afford another bike again.

The welding on that is similar to my Merlin Rocklobster Ti frame. Big fat but very neat fish scales. The Lynskey and merlin frames have much smoother more subtle welds. Both look nice though.
Hope you get sorted on a warranty.

Meh, I am just glad it didn't completely fail out on the trail...new front teeth time... 😯

Well, perhaps it's time to modify your riding style or loose some weight...

Or both.

sad sad news but now what to replace with hummmmmmmmmm

A ti whyte 19 😛 😛

or

wait for the 456 Ti slotdrop 😛

30! too young for such nicheness. only men of a certain age should own such a frame. therefore, frame for life. jokes apart, gutted for you.

Yeah Im pretty glad it didnt go on the trail, I dont think it had too much left in it before it would have.

The Ti whyte 19 is top of the list as it will work neatly with the rohloff but its quite a price to pay.

I think it's a more a perception amongst buyers that because they're spending so much on a frame, it's gonna last forever or at least outlive an equivalent quality steel or alu frame.

Nope, thats what the magazines have been telling me since I bought my first MBUK about 15 years ago.

mike-at-dialledbikes - Member
I don't think anyone actually markets Ti frames as bomb proof.

Great strength to weigh ratio, yes. But not necessarily stronger than all.

I think it's a more a perception amongst buyers that because they're spending so much on a frame, it's gonna last forever or at least outlive an equivalent quality steel or alu frame.

a quote from stevo, current on one frame designer (i think?), on the on one site about upcoming ti frame:

the Whippet comes with swapouts to accomodate SS & gear & Hubs & belt drive… The pics for the SS horizontal slot are on the blog below this one…
I really AM looking at ways to remove the monster brace and building a SUPER light Ti XC bike for LIFE!!!
Comment by Stevo — July 31, 2009 @ 2:10 pm

Well if it's going to be able to run a belt drive then I see the Whyte slipping down my wish list. I know everyone will say it won't work properly in muddy and gritty conditions but I still want to try it. Going to a belt will help offset a little bit of the weight of the Rohloff as well!

Just heard from On-one they are on the ball and looking into this.

If only they made a Ti 456 ebb to replace it with......

So that's how they put the "ZING" in Ti

Hi Bro-Bra,
I've got a tinbred frame in mint condition.
Mail me if you want more info.

Mole, you got mail 🙂

Mole medium ebb?

what size is it? Location?

Bro-bra sure is.
nbt i'll check my mail,be in touch later on tomorrow.

Ti can be for life.... but not as the bike trade know it!

cost you though.... ****in loads!

My Ti frame is 18 years old, lent it out three times three different riders, the longest was for 3 years... the last was a year... 16 stone and 60 to 100 plus miles a week off roader.

They need to treat the surface to stop where most the cracks start....(speak to Rolls Royce)
Using a different alloy will mean they can heat treat it... resolving the too much heat at the weld issue, unifying the frame. This can also be helped with single pass welds!

There is more... but basically.. if you want bomb proof for life... double the price of the Whyte..and a bit more 😆

Um... Did someone just say

[b]saladdodger[/b] - Member

...wait for the 456 Ti slotdrop

Are we ever going to see such a thing or are we back in urban myth territory again? Would be very nice if it was the case.

Very sorry and sad to see the demise of your frame though, Bro-bra. Hope some good comes out of it, and at least you've got the same number of teeth as you started the ride with!

hmm,looks just like the failure on mine,that's the problem with cheap ti it doesn't last

Zone, have you got any pics of this amazing 18 year old Ti frame you keep referring to?

Zone, surface treatment won't solve contaminated welds that cause most of these cracks, surely? Moots and a few others who know ti very well use double pass welds (structural and cosmetic) and i'm not convinced that overheating is the issue here, more likely a contamination or ride stress issue.

Producing a ti alloy just for bike use isn't going to happen, this is a small industry compared to the main users of ti! if only it were the other way round and bike sales were worth more than the military.. )

Interested in the heat-treatable alloy you suggest tho, care to tell more? Is your 18 y/o frame a CP or alloyed?

cheers

andylaightscat - Member

hmm,looks just like the failure on mine,that's the problem with cheap ti it doesn't last

Why? same material and same builders as dearer brands. I've seen merlins snap.

I didnt buy a Ti hardtail because I thought it could never break. It had to be mine because I must in all things have only the very best.

My Tinbred may well last forever but I will never know as the chav scum w4nkers who knicked it have not been caught yet...

Shame you EBB broke, it can happen to any bike..

I've got one of those and hence very interested. What do the amateur metallurgists reckon - is it a fatigue thing (ie; the more / harder it's ridden the sooner it will fail) or is it an age thing?

I have no expert knowledge at all, but could it be that more cheap ti frames crack because there are more cheap ti frames in total?

What do the amateur metallurgists reckon - is it a fatigue thing (ie; the more / harder it's ridden the sooner it will fail) or is it an age thing?

It's a 'sticker' thing. Needed an 853 one.

Hi mike at Dialled bikes,, yeh I've got some pics... I will stick some on tomorrow. and it is an alloy not cp... 😀

It's an Alpha/beta alloy of Ti 4-6%Al 2%Mn

The forming and extrusion process of these tubes also increases the tensile strength as well.

The finishing does also make a difference due to the fact it's the same process that Rolls Royce use on their turbine fan blades to UK Aerospace/Mil-spec Standard and certification for the same results... creating a microscopic defect tolerant surface with increased fatigue resistance.

The heat treatment is made possible to the most part due to the Mn... and other factors!

single pass welds... ltd exposure to high temps... less weld...and other stuff 😀

Zone

Oops forgot... agree with finishing not helping this one though,,, looks to start at the underside of the weld point...could be where the weld started and finished...i.e weak spot. to much heat??? Hard riding...??? Contaminant could also be it... maybe 😀

We saw a cracked Ti Cotic on the NY ride at Swinley forest. Made a nice ping when it went too.

Bro-Bra - Can you email me. Cheers,

crap photo again... but you can see the tapered and ovalised tubes...just

This picture is of a frame from 1993 still in use the other is not built up at the mo.... I can send you photos of the older one if you want from 91 ? I've got one from 1994 as well... which has amazing ovalised chainstays...and down tube... variable wall thickness inside and out again...

I just wish I could track down the 12.5" frame version that was stolen from me in 99... the give away is that to the more observant they would notice the seat stays and chain stays taper to the drop out like steel frame....but it's Ti.

may be one day 🙁

Cynic-al,
well I was trying to be ironic as tinbreds werent cheap,mine failed at abt 3yrs old,onone didn't seem that concerned and I knew the warrenty was only 2yrs but my 16yr old merlin is still in one piece,riding well as the saying says "buy cheap,buy twice"

So are there any intact EBB Tinbreds still being ridden? Mine also cracked, although it has been repaired and is still being used. They don't seem the best example of 'titanium is for life'

I've had three Ti frames and they've all broken. I'm on my fourth now and when that breaks I shan't bother with another.

So basically, what you're all saying is that Ti is shite?

TZF,not saying that,might say that poorly designed,manufactured Ti is
but none of my other Ti bikes have benn anything other than

Jason,where did yours fail and who repaired it?
thanks

Seat post/top tube join. I spotted a hairline crack about an inch long. Vernon Barker did a pretty good job of repairing it.

Quick update, on-one have looked at the damage and imo have been very accommodating with their responce and course of action.

I am more than happy with how they have handled this, which is one of the reasons I like dealing with small UK companies.

I will post an update once the details have been finalized.

bro-bra,
how old is it?
thanks

[Van Nicholas will replace (NOT repair) any frame that fails due to manufacturer defects in materials or workmanship.
- Van Nicholas Titanium frames for the Lifetime of the frame
- Van Nicholas Aluminium frames for 3 years from date of original retail purchase
- Van Nicholas Carbon frames for 2 years from date of original retail purchase]

So someone has more confidence in their Ti frames than their ally and carbon. They also offer 50% of retail price crash replacement as well.
Not bad for what are relatively cheap Ti frames.

Yeah I should have probably stated this was one of the original tinbred ebb frames from 2003-ish.

Bad luck on the bike.

But happy Birthday!

Present to self-new frame!

Nice outcome...
i recently discovered a crack in my much ridden Fat Chance titanium -so this thread makes interesting reading - my thoughts are once failed it seems pretty difficult (but not impossible) to salvage a ti frame cost effectively?... Which puts a perspective on the "for life angle"...basicaly while ti frames (& obviously all are not fabricated equal) will not rust, once they bust, they are dust?

I think Van Nicholas titanium frames are made from a mixture of titanium and alloy and something else.

I don't know if that sound's similar to Zone's 18 year old ti bike?

Van Nicholas are now doing a long travel hardtail MTB frame if anybody's interested.

Tim

don't think van nic is using it... I would be surprised :?d

This one has super plastic qualities.... at production level.
This allows for the tube wall to be variably adjusted from the inside and outside of the tube...when being formed. 😉

e.g. Top tube Contact weld point at head and seat tube is 1.8mm, in the centre of the tube it is 0.8mm.

This reduction in wall thickness is a gradual internally and externally ... no steps. Tube is over sized as well. Like some alloy frame, no stress points along the tube, max strength at the welds and reduced weight,compliant but stiff ride overall.
This process is used on all main tubes... and chain and seat stays with different contact thickness and wall thickness's relevant to each tubes location and ride characteristic requirements.
Unify the single pass welds... and then treat the surface to increase resistance to fatigue fractures.. all you need to do then is the mountain bike design bit... 8)

but as stated in earlier posts... this tube design would never be achieved again unless attached to other more important 😯 projects.

Not economically viable 😥 even though the Mn alloy is cheaper than vanadium.

does make me wonder if 6 tons of oil pressure could be used with titanium ... it's a thought

mmm, makes me think a summer season at £125 notes is the best bet for hard riding - keeping a Ti frame just to look at! 🙂

Bro Bra - Have you recently been doing drops / jumping, or has it just gone through normal riding?

I don't know the first thing about titanium to be honest, but here's thier info about what titanium they use, if that helps to shed some light on things titanium related.

http://www.vannicholas.com/ResLib/WbmTitanium.aspx

Zone - Member
crap photo again... but you can see the tapered and ovalised tubes...just

So it's just a Serotta Timax then?

- So it's just a Serotta Timax then?

Nope.... 😆 Ben Serotta has nothing to do with this! This was UK driven

We where just before him 😀

He had a Ti tandem out called a TiMax 2004 though .... my memory fails me some times...
😉

I'll correct my self 1994 for the tandem....

oh and no step butting on this... not like there3 stage butting..
🙂

Pics of the tubes... hope this helps 😀

?t=1250585036

Zone 😀

With reference to the GT connection, I think that the zizang Ti frames were US built. The Lightning was built in Taiwan. Compared the weld finish on mine with a Tinbred and they were very similar.

I may just be lucky but my 1998 lightning frame is still intact.

Jason
So are there any intact EBB Tinbreds still being ridden? Mine also cracked, although it has been repaired and is still being used. They don't seem the best example of 'titanium is for life'

Original tiinbred EBB here still going strong, mostly but not exclusively ridden with a rohloff hub. I did go and check the frame over after seeing those photos but no signs of any weakness at all. I cant say I've been too precious with it either, done me proud these past years. Hopefully it'll live to see many more. 8)

I have medium Tinbred (ebb) cracked in the same place when i phoned Brant and asked him if anything On-One warranty would cover and he said "I might as well use it as a ****g coat hanger" i took that as a no!
Anyway it was a fun ride