would yo say that a BMX was the ideal choice for a 40 mile ride through the Yorkshire Dales..yes you could do it it but would it be the best tool for the job at hand if one had other choices of tool at hand
Best tool for the job would have an engine surely? 😉
Best tool for the job would have an engine surely?
probably :D.. seen some lads doing just that on sunday looked great fun 🙂
but thats where the choice comes in.. 😉
I dunno, a British journalist heads off all wide-eyed and excited to a glorified trade show where a bunch of Yank salesmen (who missed the 29er gold rush) are busy flogging "The Next Big Thing" to one another and he just falls in line...
the thing is it's not much of a change but it's just enough to crank up the hype over shiney new stuff again.
X-Fusion have been quietly flogging much of their range of forks labeled as dual 26/650b compatible for a couple of years now, but apparently it needed the great RS and Fox to get a firm grip of the collective cycle industry Lob-on for a marginally bigger wheel before they could all have their happy ending.
what would make sense from a marketing point, of view if you really were "testing the waters" or trying to "ease market transition" is for some enterprising little outfit to try selling a single frame with slightly longer stays/wider clearance and blurb stating it is both 26" and 27.5" compatible, there's a fair few such frames already in existence by accident so we're not talking about a massive technical challenges here... Perhaps an unexploited gap in the market for someone? On-one?
The truth seems to be (from what I've read here and elsewhere) that 650b actually makes close to bugger all difference over 26" wheels on the trail, nobody it seems, has bothered to try and measure the differences in rolling resistance (apparently the "KPI" that's causing us consumers to cry out for 650b wheeled bikes) other than claims over percentage weight differences between 26/27.5/29" I've got no real belief that you gain anything significant over the two already established and supported wheel standards...
So it'll weigh 5% more maybe, and roll what 0.3% better? but 650b is considered progress rather than an attempt at marketed obsolescence? It'll take a decade or two to kill off 26" all together of course.
The thing is I'm not hugely resistant to change, I've got a dropper post, various disc brakes and suspension components, you could flog me a 29er for XC or general trail riding I reckon. But when all the marketing pushed "Journalism" and hype is claiming [I]"650b is the future, 26" is dead!"[/I] it just serves to make me that bit more resistant. It just feels like a bunch of high-fiving industry dicks have decided to impose yet another new "standard" because they missed a trick with 29" wheels...
They're in too much of a rush with this, which leads me to think there's an element of panic at diminishing market shares (in the middle of a global recession Shocka!) at work here. I really don't think 650b will be able to repeat Specialized's 29er trick for any of them...
Specialized picked their moment pretty well, buying into what was a growing niche at the time, taking a bit of a corporate lead and, popularizing it within about 24 months (at least in the states)...
650b feels still like a lazy trick for those companies without the vision to have committed to a 29" product line early enough, this big push is just an indicator of how few new idea's they collectively have...
BadlyWiredDog - Member
26.25 is the future, mark my words...
*pumps tyres to 40psi*
My god, he's right.....
Spech didn't blaze the trail with 29ers. Turner and others had good 29er bikes (like the sultan) out a good couple of years before spesh did. Spesh just rode their coat tails, mass produced them and marketed them to death.
More YAWN
I have three different types of ski binding. One normal for alpine. An old cross country pair and an even older cross country pair both with different bindings to the current cross country ones.
I think the skiing analogy is really relevant as all standards are not optimal to all uses. The problem is that there just is not that much in it so it is hard to decide what to use for what and bikes are not as specialised as skis. (yet!)
650b feels still like a lazy trick for those companies without the vision to have committed to a 29" product line early enough
This is where the marketing BS comes in, since this is not how I see it at all. What I see is limited appeal for 29ers in the - for want of a better term - enduro/DH end of the market. Although very few of us "need" a bike this capable - and could be very well served with a short travel 29er XC for our riding - we aspire to be like the riders we see on YouTube.
This is where Santa Cruz are pulling off a good trick with their marketing for the new 27.5" Bronson. My head tells me I will NEVER ride as fast or as competently as Peaty and his cronies, but my heart wants to. If that's the bike that I need to ride like that, let me at it. Ironically, it was not that long ago that, for the same reasons, my heart went all-a-flutter for the SC Blur TR: a 26er no less.
Anyway, back to my point, I think that 650b is fuelling the big-wheeled hunger at the more extreme end of the market rather than being the new bandwagon for those that missed the 29er one. I still find the whole thing frustrating but there's no way I'm spending any more money on a new bike any time soon, so I'm going to watch this from the sidelines.
.with in seconds of getting on his 26" i was just blimey.. this feels just wrong..
As I would expect, if I get on any of my mates bikes, they feel 'wrong' as they are set up how they like them, not how I do. A completely moot point.
[b]TuckerUK[/b]
Yup, 26" will go the way of 8-speed, V-brakes, and square taper.Still here, available new, and used by millions
This is worth repeating.
I have three different types of ski binding
I have three types of bike: a road bike, a rigid "do-it-all" bike and a full susser. I accept that my full susser wheels will not work with my road bike, just as you need different bindings for skis with different purposes. However your downhill bindings will quite happily transfer onto any new downhill ski, so I don't think it's the same comparison with MTB wheel sizes which can render old wheels and/or complete frames obsolete.
[EDIT] - maybe this is the dawn of MTBs spinning off into very specific categories that require very specific wheels. 26 is not dead, but 26 as the default wheel size for all "off road" bikes is.
what would make sense from a marketing point, of view if you really were "testing the waters" or trying to "ease market transition" is for some enterprising little outfit to try selling a single frame with slightly longer stays/wider clearance and blurb stating it is both 26" and 27.5" compatible
Banshee? might be someone else, forget now, but at least one mfr makes a frame where you flip round the dropouts or something. Then you get built-in 26in and 650b in one frame, or with 26in, a short or long back end.
does anyone remember when rims used to 'wear out' from the brakes?
ive seen a couple split from being too thin because of wear.
fast forward 15 years, all bikes have disc brakes and the rims dont wear out at all.
i wonder how we could get more cyclists to buy new rims every 3 years like they used to. . . . .
Banshee? might be someone else, forget now, but at least one mfr makes a frame where you flip round the dropouts or something. Then you get built-in 26in and 650b in one frame, or with 26in, a short or long back end.
I was thinking of a fixed geometry frame that accommodated both, but you make an even better point, you could easily "Future proof" a current design 26" with some type of swapouts that simply adjust Chainstay length and BB height by ~19mm in either plain retaining the static geometry and ride height for both wheel sizes...
Inbred 26/650b Brant?
My Star Fangled Nut has just failed - I think Aheadset was just a flash in the pan ....
Seriously... who ****ing cares?
Seriously... who ****ing cares?
Well quite clearly an awful lot of people as demonstrated every time a wheel size thread crops up.
I care, cos I have 26" bikes and I want to keep them and therefore I'll need tyres, tubes, rims and possibly forks in the future.
molgrips I have loads of the above that I will never use again, so do a million garages in the UK. You're not going to run out any time soon.
Tubes ? What are they lol
You can use a 29er tube in. 26 wheel If you need to
But of a faf to fit but works ok
I remember hearing about this thing called capitalism. Apparently if there's a demand for something, and the people who are demanding stuff are prepared to pay for it, then chances are that someone will be prepared to supply it. Lets hope it catches on eh? As it would render conversations like this somewhat redundent 😉
Well the problem with capitalism is that there has to be ENOUGH demand for something to be worthwhile.
If demand falls, it gets harder and more expensive to find stuff. You ought to really understand things you slag off Binners 🙂
it's 'redundant' a bit like your spell checker... 😉
supply and Demand led capitalism you say? How quaint...
There's already market "demand" for 29ers and 26ers but the levels of demand are pretty static, thus the cycle industry needs to manufacture some extra "demand" or else contract a little...
If we consumers don't want enough new stuff then they'll have to tell us what we want apparently...
I've generally ignored the wheel size debate, but them again I'm probably the bike industry's worst nightmare because I ride an old bike. My main bike is a 2005 SX Trail with old 36 Van RC2's but it dies have modern bits like wide bars, 1x10 and a dropper post. I love it if I'm honest. It does everything that I want it to and is still probably far more capable than I am.
I like the face that the bits off it are more or less interchangeable with by BYe and the other half's Chameleon. Having more than one bike, it makes life quite easy. Not being able to swap tyres or wheels between then would be irritating.
I also don't buy complete bikes and tend to swap bits over to my new frame etc so if 26 inch does dies, I'll just but a second hand frame. The thought of buying a frame, fork and wheels is scary especially given how much these things all cost these days.
Like many on here, the 650b thing does seem to be getting pushed far too hard and quickly so it does feel like the indie is trying to squeeze more money out of us. There are an awful lot of people who run older bikes and with bikes getting better they seem to last a fair time too.
As I mentioned, I care because I think a 29er or even 650b is likely to be too big for me, if I was tall I wouldn't be concerned.
So have the manufacturers sent out press releases stating their intention to cease production of 26" bikes?
Or are they relying on their 3rd party marketing drones to fan the flames?
Going back to the article in question this part
Every bike manufacturer currently offering 26in wheeled bikes is actively redesigning their entire range for 27.5in wheels. Companies that mainly do 29in wheels are still looking at 27.5in wheels for their enduro and trail bike models, and even their full World Cup DH bikes. Companies that only do 29in wheels, like Niner, are looking on with interest and puzzlement. The 26in wheel, I’m afraid, is suddenly, inexplicably, going to disappear virtually overnight on production bikes of any quality. This is not conjecture. This is going to happen.
Is key. Working for an evil, money sucking vampire manufacturer, It's an industry wide shift & no one wants to be caught with their pants down.
No one of any note is investing in new 26" designs, everything is going 27.5". Next model year will see a lot of very prominent brands having no 26" wheeled bikes in their range.
It's like a mass scale migration, like it or not. The next few years will be the golden ones for 26", as too many big players have invested too heavily for 27.5" not to happen.
I dunno, a British journalist heads off all wide-eyed and excited to a glorified trade show where a bunch of Yank salesmen (who missed the 29er gold rush) are busy flogging "The Next Big Thing" to one another and [s]he just falls in line[/s] reports what he sees in front of him ...
at least, that's how I read it.....
Waa waa waa, I hate change!
650b will be the default. Makes no sense manufacturers doing 2 versions of the same frame to support 27.5" and 29"
29" will become as obsolete as 26". One ring to rule them all.
I just want to be able to buy and ride a bike without having to stress about which bl00dy wheel size to go for.
Too much to ask?
EDIT: Oh, and what he said^^^
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As I mentioned, I care because I think a 29er or even 650b is likely to be too big for me, if I was tall I wouldn't be concerned.
Without wishing to be rude, how tall are you Toys19?
Hey! Let's not forget that this another totally sexist bike industry initiative.
Girls need smaller frames. Those flipping big wheels don't fit into smaller frames without looking proper comedy. I call paternalistic conspiracy to keep girls off the trails.
😉
What are you saying. Ms Batty fits on a 29er just fine 😉 (there's no tounge-in-cheek smily)
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The wonderful thing about bikes is that we use wheels with spokes and rims. if you buy a 650b and decide you'd rather have a 26" then it's fairly straightforward to swap rims. They're so close you might not even need new spokes.
I've actually just swapped my mk1 nomad's 26" rear rim for a 24" rim since I wanted to slacken the head angle and lower the bottom bracket. It also has the benefit that I get to feel all superior by being more niche than everyone else since i'm doing the opposite 🙂
What makes it all so funny is that overnight the MTB press has decided that 26" wheels are dead and everyone believes it, worse still people of less robust constitutions immediately think their current wheels are out of date and they have to rush out and buy a new setup.
I see that Devinci (makers of my current bike) and Nicolai (makers of my next bike) are making 26" bikes this year. Two of the finest examples of hand built frames and some of the best handling bikes available.
If you want different sized wheels great but stop ramming this rubbish down our throats.
duir +1 pretty much says it all.
if you buy a 650b and decide you'd rather have a 26" then it's fairly straightforward to swap rims. They're so close you might not even need new spokes.
12.5mm difference in bead seat radius. would need to be quite a radically different rim profile to have a compatible spoke seat diameter.
plus there's BB height difference to think about.
wrecker - MemberThey just needed something new to sell to those of us who don't like 29ers. Almost every review I've read has stated no or very little discernible difference between 650b and 26".
I understand 29ers, they are different enough to co-exist with 26", but 650b is purely here to get us to part with our money. Pretty shameless IMO.
+1
I was thinking of a fixed geometry frame that accommodated both, but you make an even better point, you could easily "Future proof" a current design 26" with some type of swapouts that simply adjust Chainstay length and BB height by ~19mm in either plain retaining the static geometry and ride height for both wheel sizes...
Make that 12.5mm adjustment required - that's how massive the radial difference is between 26 and 650b.
They're so close you might not even need new spokes.
you'd probably get the first 9 or 10 installed before you realized.
12.5mm - massive - radial difference
So when I run 2.5's instead of 2.1's I'm already 650bing? (until they go bald anyway)
i think the 19 is a bit of pythagoras? ie 12.5 extra in chainstay length, and 12.5 difference in BB drop, and a bit of rounding up (although 1-2mm is hardly going to affect things). so the axle position will move by about 18-19mm relative, to keep everything else in the same place (although I think that'd be a worst case, so long as seat tube is no issue).
saying that, I was looking at a FS 650b and the CS length was a whopping 3mm more than what I thought my 26er HT is.