I had an evening ride last night at Aston Hill (4-8pm) to get some practice in for the upcoming race weekend in September. Nice and quiet other than a few guys doing the red and XC loop. Towards the end of the evening, around 7ish, I hadn't seen or heard another rider for a good hour so had assumed I was all on my own so decided to put a couple of last practice runs in down the black. Now for those who haven't ridden at Aston Hill, the start of the black run ( first 20 seconds) is also part of the red run and the entrance to another DH trail.
So, off I toddle as fast as I can/dare when suddenly coming up the trail just as I exit a sweeping left hand berm is one of the CX guys. I slam on my brakes but can't avoid hitting him and we both collide and I, as I was carrying more speed, hit the deck pretty hard. He stays up right but gets a good smack from me and my bike. I winded myself, hit my face inside my helmet and got a dead arm but other than a few cuts and bruises I was ok. He was ok other than having the wind taken out of him but his bike ended up with buckled front wheel and bent brake disc and split brake hose. My bike, other than some superficial scratches, being a burly DH bike was fine.
After getting over the initial shock I stood up and he was just stood there and immediately said to me "no need for that is there?" I just grunted a "what?". "Bombing down there like that, what do you expect mate?" On this occasion I Immediately reacted badly, feeling Battered, bruised and shocked at his reaction and said angrily something along the lines of "your going the wrong way up a DH trail. All the trails go one way, all you will ever come across is downhillers gong this way at speed!" He still then had the audacity to say that just because its a DH run I should still ride "respectfully" and cautiously and asked what I would have done had I come across a dog on the trail.
The argument ran for about 10 minutes with me trying to explain that it was a DH park with one way trails, where dogs are not allowed designed for paying downhillers to ride as fast as they wish. He wasn't having any of it and finished by saying that he could quite easily sue me for the damage to his bike.
I was fuming but more or less let it go but I've wondered today is that what trail centres have created? This idea that you constantly have to ride all the time, wherever you are, below your best on the off chance you may come across something or someone? Surely a DH specific park ( exactly what Aston is) with short but fast DH trails is somewhere where mountain bikers can ride at whatever speed they wish? Do we constantly have to limit ourselves all the time on the off chance.....
No, he was in the wrong. Why would you cycle at anything less than your maximum speed at that time? going fast is what it's all about and it's fun, going slow isn't.
Sound pretty bloody stupid to ride up a known, official DH track. I'm sure you've just met one idiot.
sounds like he got off lightly! what a plonker! glad you're not too hurt
reads like he stopped and you did not - you know trails cross so caution at that point may be advisable as it helps you avoid hitting folk though you may not have looked for someone going the wrong way.
I would assume if you designate a place as go flat out DH you dont have trails crossing it or you will get crashes so bad design as well.
If they were riding UP the trial then they are to blame
On balance racing incident caused by bad planning
Nothing to add. It just reminds me of when I meet idiotic families (not with bikes) walking up sections (at other trail centres), or even worse walking with the flow so they can't see you coming! The excuses I've heard range from 'we didn't think anyone would be here at this time of night' (7PM in Summer!), to 'we didn't think folk would go so fast'. Don't get me started on nobbers fixing mechanicals in the middle of the trail! 👿
JY- he stopped because he was riding at a slow pace uphill on a CX bike. I couldn't stop as was going downhill as fast as I could. In all my years riding a Aston I have never seen nor expected anyone to ride up very clearly marked downhill trails. The trails all start from one point on then split off at points into different downhill runs but they all run one way - down.
He was travelling the wrong way basically.
Well that's one less bell end you will have to spend time searching for...!
Learn from your mistakes - next time don't hit the brakes.
Bit seriously, what if a child's face had been walking up the trail?
It was obviously "Junkyard" having a jolly good time on his CX bike.... 🙄
Bloody cyclists - tossers all of them, the sooner cyclists have to pass a test and get insurance the better!!!!
My sympathy is with you, but technically (unless it is an event with a closed course and marshals) I suspect that the onus is on you to ride in such a way that you don't endanger other trail users, however daft they may be. On the plus side it sounds as though you came off better than he did, so just chalk it up to experience.
he stopped because he was riding at a slow pace uphill on a CX bike. I couldn't stop as was going downhill as fast as I could
Yes I agree with that but if trails cross it may be prudent to be able to stop I guess two folk going downhill would have a worse crash hence why I said bad design.
He was travelling the wrong way basically.
Not disagreeing
POPO its a chat forum you could contribute more than a dig though I am more insulted you think I own a CX bike 😉
I did say this as well
If they were riding UP the trial then they are to blame
Aston hills a downhill track. You ride down hill only time you go up is on the xc track the other end if the guy went up the downhill track then his a bit of a wally
I never ride my bike flat out. If I ride flat out I fall off lots. Maybe try riding at 98% instead of 100% and you'll be faster and safer?
roverpig +1
if you want to push enter a race,
you never know what is round the corner, nails, fishing line, fallen tree, rider, badger, bloke with a shotgun....
My sympathy is with you, but technically (unless it is an event with a closed course and marshals) I suspect that the onus is on you to ride in such a way that you don't endanger other trail users*
unfortunately this ^
although I agree with you 100% that he was in the wrong place, unless you are racing on a closed course you HAVE to assume that you haven't got the track to yourself.
One day it's a daft CX'r riding the wrong way up a trail, the next its an unconcious 14 year old in the middle of the trail post crash, or more comically in my case once, a cow's arse.
*as he should have also been, by not riding up a DH track
You need a permit to ride Aston. Fairly sure this guy did not have a permit. If he bought one off the website or spoke to one of the guys selling the permits then he'd have known to not be where he was.
Aston Hill is different to most riding places in the UK as it's privately owned, so if you are on it you should be aware that folk will be belting down certain trails.
You should've asked for evidence that he'd paid 🙂
*i am a paid up, insured member incidentally. Was too shocked/annoyed/bruised to think to ask whether he was unfortunately.
if you want to push enter a race,
So what is an acceptable amount of push for me to ride at? If it's at a level that means I can stop in time to avoid a CX rider coming up a trail just before the exit to a sweeping berm then I may as well walk down.
You obviously race, to do well you need to push yourself in training.
You were on an official downhill track . The right place to do it.
He was going the wrong way on a downhill track. You are in no way wrong, he is a plank.
By the sound of it the guy was a complete moron. DH tracks are there to ride as quick as you dare.
I was at Rogate last week and flew off the final drop, leading into the first tabletop at the bottom only to find some idiots walking up the trail on top of the jump. I scrubbed some speed off and they all leapt off to one side.
No damage done, but they could have caused a serious accident. They were DHers and should know better.
I love Aston Hill and I would absolutely flip if I came across someone riding up the tracks. Well done for not punching the bloke.
but technically (unless it is an event with a closed course and marshals) I suspect that the onus is on you to ride in such a way that you don't endanger other trail users*
Complete and utter crap!! It is a one-way, DH specific trail. End of story. It it is there for you to ride as fast as you dare, without having to worry about people riding the trail in the opposite direction.
AHA!
Post on the Aston Hill Facebook page about Mr CX bike and see what happens. Maybe someone else has seen the berk.
Anyway if you ride around at 98% you will lose skill and that will become your 100%....so you'll have to go slower. Keep that up and you may as well buy a cx bike for the downs.
Double post
Post on the Aston Hill Facebook page about Mr CX bike and see what happens. Maybe someone else has seen the berk.
Yeah. I emailed the guys at the club to see if they wanted to mention it on their website/FB page.
[i]. It it is there for you to ride as fast as you dare, without having to worry about people riding the trail in the opposite direction. [/i]
see this was what I though first and then I thought but what if someone crashes and they or their bike are on the trail? There's no marshals to wave you down.
So now I think: "Ride as fast as you can but maybe leave a little bit of margin for the unexpected".
The bloke on the cross bike is a berk though.
you never know what is round the corner, nails, fishing line, fallen tree, rider, badger, bloke with a shotgun....
Wow!! You are a real glass half empty kinda bloke, aren't you? I'm amazed you ever leave the house with that attitude. Do you read the Daily Mail, perchance?
I would have punched him.
see this was what I though first and then I thought but what if someone crashes and they or their bike are on the trail? There's no marshals to wave you down.
Yeah I understand that and indeed that has happened to me at Aston too. Lad went down in almost the same spot as the incident yesterday. I slammed on the brakes and made the decision to ride off the side of the track to avoid hitting him. I feel confident that I could avoid hitting someone who had stopped or crashed on the trails (i know all of the runs at aston very well) but if they were travelling towards me......
He sounds like a smack in the face waiting to happen, and the "what about a dog" comment is quite telling too.
You must be kicking yourself for not tail-whipping into his mush.
Mr CX was 100% in the wrong. This being a DH track, I presume there are also large drops which are blind on the approach and gap jumps - these features have a minimum speed to flow or even survive, a speed which would not allow you to stop if a fool on any kind of bike was pottering along the landing in the wrong direction. I worry that a number of people here have said otherwise...
Mr CX was 100% in the wrong. This being a DH track, I presume there are also large drops which are blind on the approach and gap jumps - these features have a minimum speed to flow or even survive, a speed which would not allow you to stop if a fool on any kind of bike was pottering along the landing in the wrong direction. I worry that a number of people here have said otherwise...
Yes, absolutely. Drops and gaps that require complete commitment to clear safely.
chiefgrooveguru - Member
Mr CX was 100% in the wrong. This being a DH track, I presume there are also large drops which are blind on the approach and gap jumps - these features have a minimum speed to flow or even survive, a speed which would not allow you to stop if a fool on any kind of bike was pottering along the landing in the wrong direction. I worry that a number of people here have said otherwise...
Reminds of when I met a walker halfway down the wall at the bottom of Ft.William. Strangely, I seemed to be unable to stop (or even bother pulling the breaks for that matter)
From your description I am guessing the incident was just after the left-hand section of the s-bend berms, just after the entrance to Surface 2 Air: Is that correct?
If so, you are going pretty fast at that point. The rest of the black is pretty technical and that section is easily the fastest.
Your in the right to be angry at him. If your riding in public woods or a forest you expect other people to be going in different directions but you were on a bike trail designed for what you were doing.
I've also come across a few people riding trails the wrong way but usually they just didn't realise it was one way until i tell them politely. I'd be really angry if people going the wrong way told me not to ride so fast.
Hope you and the bike are ok.
Mr CX was wrong, you were in the right, we've established that.
But being in the right will not stop you having an accident, it'll just make you feel angrier afterwards.
And unless its a closed course and there's no way for people to enter the course without proper control etc then that's the risk you take, no accounting for the stupidity of others unfortunately...
Go balls out if you want (I probably would too), and take the moral high ground afterwards by all means, but I'd be surprised if this is the last time this happens to you.
not a half empty guy, those are things i have come across over the years. Unless you KNOW the track is clear sometimes you have to back off a little just in case or accept the consequences.
As mentioned by plenty of people, no one is saying the OP is in the wrong, more that riding flat out without knowing the track is clear will occasionally end badly. There are prats about and you can't legislate for stupidity.
I've said my bit, but those who insinuate that the OP was in the wrong or shouldn't have been riding a DH track like it was a DH track.. well, you're wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. It ain't a bridle way, it's a Downhill mountain bike track. (I personally, wouldn't even ride down it, let alone up it)
If you can't ride an officially sanctioned, purpose built DH track at a purpose built DH venue like a nutter then all is lost.
I can understand having to watch your speed on a trail centre blue, or a bridlway because you may come across all types of riders and obstacles, but S2A? The trail where they fenced off all the chicken runs because too many people were getting hurt meaning you had to commit to all the drops at the top to even start? Unbelievable.
I'm pretty sure I'd be well out of my comfort zone on my very first attempt on S2A. My thought process would be more along the lines of "shitohshitohshitohshitI'mgoingtodie", not "what would I do if a moron in a CX bike showed up around the next corner, hmmm, let me scrub some speed just in case".
you never know what is round the corner, nails, fishing line, fallen tree, rider, badger, bloke with a shotgun...
...baby koala, a young Raquel Welch, cold cider, an original packet of beef monster munch...
Unlucky and lucky at the same time OP. Ming and Mo
[img] https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCPLJ7o-OZBUWIPAy5NUiQ6pv2g1qZF0_ysFAzy5xm_DMKWA4X [/img]
1) Yes he was in the wrong
2) Yes you could ride in a manner that would mean that even if there are bellends around you won't hit them but
3) That would be shit. So what we actually do is, we ride quick and committed, and in a manner that deals with the likely, and just accept that sometimes unexpected things will happen. It is part and parcel of the sport we do.
Bagsy crashing into a young Raquel Welch and being forced to nurse her back to health with blanket baths and stuff.
On the whole, it seems obvious that the guy riding up a paid for downhill track deserved everything he got. And I've never seen a cx bike with bombers...
Aston Hill is different to most riding places in the UK as it's privately owned, so if you are on it you should be aware that folk will be belting down certain trails.
In that case my sympathy is even more with the OP and I'll happily withdraw any implied criticism.
I keep forgetting that the rules are so different down in Englandshire. You probably can have a private track that people have to pay to use and agree to abide by the rules. In which case you should be able to trust that you won't meet an idiot riding up the downhill track.
Up here the access rules cut both ways. I can ride my bike pretty much anywhere I like, but I have to accept that other people might be using the track for their own purposes (regardless of how many signs there are).
Obviously the last thing I'd expect on a privately owned downhill park would be downhill bikes being ridden fast in a downhill direction 🙄
The cx rider is a chump.
How long until the CX dickhead shows up on here?
Got to be an STW user with that kind of attitude.
So was he going back up the red run? At the path about 9 secs in on this?
More around the 21 second mark on that vid, although those berms are much wider/ faster now.
He was going up a bike park trail?
I've done this, very cautiously, to accompany a "lost" person back to a nearby hub, but extremely cautiously and got us off the line when someone came.
Really one has to expect cyclists hooning down bike trails! He's a berk to expecting otherwise and then having the temerity to argue the point.
1) Yes he was in the wrong
2) Yes you could ride in a manner that would mean that even if there are bellends around you won't hit them but
3) That would be shit. So what we actually do is, we ride quick and committed, and in a manner that deals with the likely, and just accept that sometimes unexpected things will happen. It is part and parcel of the sport we do.
Spot on!!
Up here the access rules cut both ways. I can ride my bike pretty much anywhere I like, but I have to accept that other people might be using the track for their own purposes (regardless of how many signs there are).
I still question that. The LRA does state you can't exercise your access rights on land set aside for a specific recreational purpose. In my own personal opinion, I would argue that a purpose built mountain bike trail is land set aside for a specific recreational purpose. Others disagree. As it's never been tested in court it's still up for debate.
As you say, that one gets argued both ways and is probably getting a bit off topic, but it's a fair point.
He is obviously a cock. No you shouldn't be riding below your limits on a trail like that. You showed more patience with him than I would.
Pin it and enjoy it! Maybe next time you'll hit him harder and he will learn a lesson?
Can I just say - I [i]would[/i] ride that track in the video (despite my earlier comment)! There's a section at AH that crosses the XC trail? Guys were jumping over our heads on that! That's the bit I wouldn't ride 🙂
What a grade a toolbox!
I'm guessing like many trail centre / bike park type tracks the bottom where he may have started would have had no entry signs etc which he clearly ignored. As others have said at this kind of venue you e got to expect people to be riding quickly which is why they go there. Hopefully next time Darwin's theory will kick in...
It does annoy me when people ignore the no entry signs on purpose built trails. I was at Cannock the other week and a lady was walking up the trail with her two dogs and kids getting in a strop that she had to keep calling her dogs back / making them sit for the cyclists! I pointed out that she shouldn't be on it, let alon hoi g against the traffic on a quick bit and she went nuts! What if someone ploughed into one of her dogs / kids? Idiot. Cannock Chase is massive and there are two dedicated bike trails that seem to attract the odd idiot to walk on.
Did you ring your bell?
1) Yes he was in the wrong
2) Yes you could ride in a manner that would mean that even if there are bellends around you won't hit them but
3) That would be shit. So what we actually do is, we ride quick and committed, and in a manner that deals with the likely, and just accept that sometimes unexpected things will happen. It is part and parcel of the sport we do.
Couldn't agree more and perfectly phrased. Except when clearly there is a risk of walkers, dogs etc this is the only way to ride IMO. The pure joy of riding on the edge and pushing your limits is a special place. Be safe, be sensible, but if you're not falling of once in a while you're not trying hard enough... 😉