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It is all theory really. What is proven however is that for major endurance exercises beer aids recovery and race preparation:
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/10572152/Andy-Holden-obituary.html ]Andy Holden[/url]
🙂
Oldbloke +1
We are talking about post exercise fueling using drinks, no?
Yes. I said quite a few times, that ~ANY carbs after exercise helps recovery - be it Torq, jam sandwiches, coke, jelly babies, whatever.
It is my personal experience that for me, Torq works somewhat better than sandwiches or coke. However I don't think that SIS for example works any better than coke or plain maltodextrin, so I don't buy it.
Just because didgerman (or anyone else) can't explain it, doesn't mean it's definitely wrong.
Which one exactly?
Ok so for fuelling during riding, I mean anything based on maltodextrin, which is basically all of them. Maltodextrin:fructose 2:1 might work a little better than plain malto, I'm not sure. I have in the past bought flavoured Torq energy because it's tasty and doesn't contain aspartame, but certainly not for general riding or training. Too expensive.
Plain malto in a sack from ebay is only £7.99 for 5kg - that'd do you fine and is probably cheaper than anything else in terms of grammes of carbs!
Didgerman is arguing that you don't need to eat anything after finishing a ride, you should wait til your next meal - your overall recovery won't be affected.
Ask yourself; What would a caveman do?
Spend half the year starving and die in his late 20's?
Sound's like a crap diet to me!
Yes. I said quite a few times, that ~ANY carbs after exercise helps recovery - be it Torq, jam sandwiches, coke, jelly babies, whatever.
Then why did you ask me about Carbs DURING exercise? Anyway the fact that "some" carbs no doubt help with recovery is not in dispute in the same way that SOME protein, iron etc etc all help with recovery. The carb drink you mention is not good value. Carbs can be got through a wide range of foods, all of which offer other benefits and unless you are replacing "normal" foods with this carb drink then it is additive and therefore not good value is it?
Just because didgerman (or anyone else) can't explain it, doesn't mean it's definitely wrong.
Explain what? Your unscientific experiment based on a sample of 1?
Molegrips
Are you a veggie ?
What about chill pills do they work?
Then why did you ask me about Carbs DURING exercise?
You said sports drinks are no better than water - I thought when you said sports drinks I thought you meant ALL sports drinks, which would include those intended for use during exercise.
Carbs can be got through a wide range of foods, all of which offer other benefits and unless you are replacing "normal" foods with this carb drink then it is additive and therefore not good value is it?
That plain malto is cheaper, g for g of carbs, than the cheapest white bread.
Of course it's additive - if I'm doing lots of biking I'm going to need to eat more food, obviously. However if I use this instead of bread, it'll work out cheaper.
Also, for me, high GI carbs work better than low GI after exercise. If I go on a big ride and just use normal meals to refuel I find myself very very hungry for a long time, several days. If I use recovery drink this doens't happen.
As for this being an unscientific sample of one - of course it is, but like I say I'm not saying this stuff will work for everyone. If you read back, I suggest that the people TRY it and see.
And funnily enough, some of those who have tried it have noticed a benefit. I suppose they are wrong though. You know best of course.
Just eat well after a hard ride, it doesn't have to be expensive or complicated. It's not rocket science.
It's not rocket science.
No its way more complicated than that...
Its STW science
True
I do have read a lot on the subject, have host of pubmed links and links to other studies regarding recovery windows, post-exercise protein studies (mostly related to strength training) and some fairly accomplished mates in endurance sports and a bit of personal experience.
That said, I drink recovery drinks infrequently, mostly after heavy workouts or long rides. It is quite a struggle to manage most important issues of being athlete: regular and progressive exercise, good basic diet, sleep and rest and skill training. At least recovery drinks are easy to get right and cost is less than 2 tyres per year.
some of those who have tried it have noticed a benefit. I suppose they are wrong though. You know best of course.
So from a sample of one you are now accepting anecdote? I'm not saying there is no benefit I just think it is largely unscientific marketing bullshit. Thats not to say you wont get a marginal benefit from it I just think if you have a healthy balanced diet it is superfluous.
That plain malto is cheaper, g for g of carbs, than the cheapest white bread.
Lots of things are cheaper than the "cheapest white bread" is that reason to add them to your diet? Do you normally eat the "cheapest white bread"? if so and you are replacing it with this then fine. I understood you were saying there was benefit in it over and above replacing something that most athletes dont include in their diet? Can you point to the evidence?
is that reason to add them to your diet?
NO THE REASONS ARE THE ONES I'VE BEEN GOING ON ABOUT FOR THE LAST FIVE PAGES! The reason I mentioned cost is that you said it was 'expensive' and 'marketing led'. This is a plainly packaged bulk product. You're just finding random shit to argue about, and you're being incoherent.
Thats not to say you wont get a marginal benefit from it I just think if you have a healthy balanced diet it is superfluous
Fine. You do what works for you, I'll do what works for me.
As for anecdote - it's not anecdote - there's years of evidence. Not double-blind, fair enough, but enough convince me.
Can you point to the evidence?
No, go find it yourself. I'm fed up of this - you've admitted there might be a marginal benefit, I'm saying there's a benefit, so we agree. End of thread.
there's years of evidence. Not double-blind, fair enough, but enough convince me.
No, go find it yourself. I'm fed up of this
So none then?
The reason I mentioned cost is that you said it was 'expensive' and 'marketing led'. This is a plainly packaged bulk product.
Is it? Regardless of packaging if its superfluous and has a cost then it is a waste of money. Your money fine, knock yourself out. I am arguing that there is only trivial benefit that can easily be found more cheaply elsewhere. If it works for you then good however if you claim it works for you then I suspect it would be effective for everybody else hence I am interested in the evidence.
If that's incoherent then sorry.
So none then?
Years of evidence for me, of my own experimentation. It's not published or peer reviewed. If you want that, go find it yourself.
You aren't half thick at times. Or deliberately being awkward to piss me of, not sure which.
I am arguing that there is only trivial benefit that can easily be found more cheaply elsewhere.
The point is that if you decide to take carbs after exercise then that maltodextrin is very cheap even compared to other carb-rich normal foods. So it's not expensive.
ChunkyMTB - MemberJust eat well after a hard ride, it doesn't have to be expensive or complicated. It's not rocket science.
What he said, and he knows a thing or two 😀
You aren't half thick at times
For someone with such thin skin you should be a bit more sensitive Molly
[i]It's not rocket science. [/i]
unless you have a particularly technical salad.
very true wwaswas
And then there's the age old argument about which snake oil to dress said Rocket fuelled salad in ?
What if the salad has water cress in it ? Will the water in the cress change the lubrecicitttttttyy of the Oil ?
What will happen if no on actually cares about not eating properly any more ?
It's the not knowing if I'm eating carbs / protein that confuses me ?
What happens if I get the ratios wrong and I overdose on carbs ?
Is that why I'm fat ?
I bet it is, I'd better start buying tubs of stuff and monster kill it till I'm muhassive !