[Closed] Really not sure what to think about this…

cant see owt wrong with someone riding a bike down a hill.

or does the ebike think offend you?

It's about as wrong as using an uplift, surely?

I think there are a number of people with concerns about e-bikes being used 'inappropriately' (especially the more powerful ones) on rights of way and that leading to calls that 'something must be done' about *all* bicycles off road.

Riding a bike park/trail centre on one - fill your boots as far as I'm concerned.

I would have thought the point of those bikes would be to ride up that route. Is that not a pedal bike then, just a motor bike with an electric motor?

Where do you draw the line between a powerful ebike and a motorbike though? Would you want trials motorbikes riding round trail centres?

is it not the fact it is probably [ or possibly] more like an electric motorbike than an electric bicycle??

limited to 28kmh in UK I think, the haibike I had for a bit (project enduro bike for assiting the 4 wheeled dh) was awesome, once we'd adjusted geometry and suspension tune.

Uphill would just drive if you could pedal it hard enough, downhill generally wouldn't be going slow enough to get drive, although did catch me out a couple of times kicking in with a cheeky pedal stroke between berms and sending you into the corner faster than you wanted.

Speed limit is removable which would have made it a little wild.

Uphill on some trails it was considerably faster than the Uks top xcs were able to manage.

The issue is when the battery runs out you have a 50/60lbs bike to pedal

limited to 28kmh in UK I think

15mph or 24km/h I thought - though that limit is surely for use on the road only, and as you suggest easy enough to remove (I've seen plenty of suggestions about removing such limiters on here). I'm sure that in theory it also applies on RoWs, but who's going to police that, and trailcentres are certainly a grey area.

Strange demo of the bike in my opinion.

I've ridden (a legal organised enduro day) my MX bike down a tight twisty DH track that I've also raced on the DH bike.

It was way harder, less fun and probably slower on the MX bike. Lots of mass to control, hard to flick, muscle and change direction. Getting back up, wide open on fire road, on the other hand.... 😉

If you just want to do DH tracks in a ski resort, a lift pass and a DH bike is a much better tool. Lighter, faster, cheaper and doesn't need recharging.

For back country exploring with minimal noise and pollution, different story, now you're talking, but that's not what the video shows.

The KTM freerides are designed to be ridden on that kind of trail, having seen them in the flesh, and sat on one on the ktm stand at the motorbike show a few years ago, they don't feel/have the geometry of an MX bike, they're far closer to DH mountain bikes.

@aracer, Yes, BPW has banned them, think a common misconception is that it's just an electrical motorcycle with a throttle, which isn't true you still have to pedal them and the motor assisit so the harder you pedal the harder they drive (got 400/450 + watt output on some climbs tanking it)
It didn't spin the back like a motorbike either quite linear in delivery.

Totally agree that ebikes at 30mph+ on a bridlepath past walkers is going to cause issues sooner than later.
also another ponit I saw elsewhere was the bikes giving the potential for users to go a long way into areas that they may not be comforable dealing with issues in when the battey goes flat and not having the stamina/experties to 'extract' themselves again, although less of an issue in the UK think it was in a US article which is a bit 'wilder' 😉

What's the difference between that and me riding my BMW GS down the hill, other than a lot of extra weight?

Rachel

I'm not a great fan. That may well be pure snobbery

However, for me the game is about the combination of fitness, machine and technical skill producing performance.

I'm [i]reasonably[/i] fit. On an undulating trail, someone I can usually distance, if he rides an ebike can [u]absolutely blow me away[/u] - not having to sprint out of corners, not being winded by a sharp rise, all that stuff. After a couple of minutes of going as hard as I can, he'll have disappeared, not even breathing hard.

Of course, the bike he's using is limited to 16mph. But once you've conceded the principle that it's got a motor, I'm not clear why it makes sense to stop with such a crap one - why not have a better motor? There's no hard line there that says "this is still a mountain bike, whereas that is a motor bike and you're playing a different game". Whereas saying that "if it has a motor, it's not really the same thing" seems to be a fairly defensible distinction.

And yes, I am somewhat sensitive about being smoked by people I can usually beat. I wouldn't try to race the uplift truck.

🙂

You don't have to pedal the GS. 😉

there's no pedals on the bikes in the video, just pegs.

[img] [/img]

You don't have to pedal the GS.

Or a [url= http://www.ktm.com/gb/freeride/freeride-e/highlights.html#.VCVL-hZIVb0 ]KTM Freeride E[/url]

Edit: Beaten to it.

Ah not all ebikes are equal then, KTM is an electric motorbike then IMO 😉 not so happy with those tbh.

It's a 30HP motorbike, similar power to a 125cc, sold for offroad use, so won't have a speed limiter. Not much like an electric assist pedal cycle at all.
This:
[img] [/img]

Not this:
[img] [/img]

I can't imagine many mountain bike trails would last very long if the rider on the motorbike wasn't super careful on the throttle, though I'm generally much happier with the noise of these rather than regular crossers in the countryside.

They do have the main benefit of removing the 'they're noisey/smelly' argument about greenlaning though.

Using them illegally is still using them illegally, be they leccy or not.

Simon, the Freeride E is not the E bike you are thinking of. the Freeride is almost an MX bike, and certainly doesn't have pedals

Beaten to it but sod it!

Freeride E:
[img] [/img]

KTM E Bike:
[img] [/img]

As a enduro motorcycle replacement option yes great, not for mtb trails though.

Carrying on the proud stw forum tradition of jumping without properly studying the OP 😳 😉

dangerous imo. its a motorbike and yes you could potentially have the same accident on a push bike but i dont think the two should mix. its like saying allow motorbikes to use the cycle lane imo.

They do let low power motorbikes use the cycle lanes in Amsterdam...

BMW GS

I'd be very impressed if you could ride a 1200GS down that track!

wedge the cyclinder heads between the trees 😉

Thinking about it I quite fancy an E motorcyle for green laning 😀

It's an 800GSA but I'd probably be daft enough to give it a go!

Carrying on the proud stw forum tradition of jumping without properly studying the OP

These things would not be legal on most UK MTB trails except those on private land surely?
I certainly wouldn't want them on same the trails I were riding.

I was most offended by how painfully slow he was... 😕

But yeah, electric bikes, undoubtedly a lot of fun, a good thing for our image and access to the countryside? No....

I imagine BPW have banned them more because they will lose out on uplift revenue rather than any nod to trail erosion etc.
It's just another modern invention to make us lazier and your average countryside user isn't going to separate a pedalling mountain biker from an electrically assisted mountain biker wanging it past them and their dogs on narrow trails.
This is inevitably going to lead to some conflict I feel...

It's an 800GSA but I'd probably be daft enough to give it a go!

if you did make it, the discs would be glowing at the bottom!

Pleased some picked up on the fact this isn't a pedal e-bike but a full on MX bike. The potential for electric mx bike using MTB trails, for me, is asking for conflict.

Bike snobbery? Maybe.

Is it just us trying to protect ourselves the way horse riders and walkers have done for years against cyclists. Possibly that too.

But a bike like that on a downhill trail just seems completely and utterly cumbersome and pointless.

I was most offended by how painfully slow he was...

Haha, this was one of my initial thoughts. Would have been a better demo blatting about a MX track. To me it showed that this sort of machine isn't suited to that style of track.

But, again, that's just my opinion.

The E-MX bike in a DH track, yup pretty pointless, sure it's a giggle though.

Much as I'm a sucker for technology, it's only a matter of time before a numptie on an E-MTB spooks a horse or runs over a child's face and a swift knee-jerk reaction later somebody's local woods are going to put off limits to all mountain bikes E-assisted or otherwise.

It's cringingly predictable, the NIMBY's are going to have a field day when these start turning up in the U.K's woods.

Are leccy motorbikes still classed as mechanically propelled and therefore banned from BWs anyway? or will they have to re-word the legislation again?

e-bikes are fair enough to help less able people get outdoors and enjoy cycling (medically healthy people just get a normal bike and pedal harder you lazy gets) but e-motorbikes can get stuffed imo (from BWs and mtb trails).

I assume there will be a bit of legal difficulty differentiating between ebikes, emotorbikes and mobility scooters tho...?

pretty sure ebikes (pedal assist) are under same legislation as the mobility stuff (also electric scooter) speed limited.

Emotorcycles would/ should come under the motorcycle legislation due to power as I'm sure there have been some electric scoots produced.

I assume there will be a bit of legal difficulty differentiating between ebikes, emotorbikes and mobility scooters tho...?

That's kinda my point, attempts to curtail MTB access almost always have a 'build trails and they'll attract motorbikes' component to them, regardless of the facts of whether this is actually the case.

E-Mountain bikes blur the lines between MTB and MX bikes, making it much harder to counter this kind of accusation.

I assume there will be a bit of legal difficulty differentiating between ebikes, emotorbikes and mobility scooters tho...?

Restricted to 15 MPH, has pedals: electric bicycle
Restricted to 30 MPH, no pedals: legally the same as 30mph 50cc petrol scooter
30 MPH+, no pedals: electric motorbike. Can ride with L-plates & CBT. Power limit of 11Kw/14.6bhp
Anything more powerful needs the motorcycle theory and practical tests.

AFAIK the legal definitions are well established:

No more so than the restricted to 33hp motorbikes for under 21 year olds in old licence system, which was easy in most cases to remove if you wanted to.
The Peugeot scooters could be remapped using a Nintendo gameboy with a plug adaptor.