[Closed] Reading a map - why can't/won't you?

You're talking about the female of the species here, aren't you? Stop beating around the bush and just say so.

its nice to get lost now and again.

And why can't you fold it properly? Just follow the creases! 🙂

Why would I bother when I can just drive 60 miles to a trail centre. This is the 21st century, maps are soooo 20th century.

dunno, i usualy prefer to ride with someone who knows the way, if theres lots of junctions, not all mapped, then checking the map every few hundred meters and taking bearings gets very tiresome.

Well, last time I was at Cwm Carn, I met a couple of blokes after the 'out of the car park' climb who had lost some friends. They had gone the wrong way from only a short distance up the climb from the car park!
At a trail centre with only one way to go!! Figure that one out.

Although if I am in a group my sense of direction/memory is rubbish as I literally 'follow the leader', whereas if on my own I remember routes much better.

Just be aware of where you are and where you are going. No need to consult the map every few minutes or take bearings.

I carry a compass but I can't remember the last time I used it - decades ago probably. Thats for summer and winter biking and hiking

why bother??
i like cycling not map reading.

Or is this a dig at us who use GPS and as for routes?

I don't mind using a map but can get annoyed at stop start. Depends where you're riding. Out on a moor or open space it's fairly easy to look at a map, find your line and ride for quite a while without having to recheck. In a forest (like Cannock Chase) if you want to follow a particular route it can be hard as there are trails all over the shop sometimes only metres apart. The idea of using GPS to me is to be able to ride with less stopping. I can use a map and compass. Just don't want to do so all the time.

Mkay?

I can read a map fairly well but I quite like not having to get it out very often. But once you've done a route once with a map you can usually remember the way the next time.

I grew up walking from a young age and was always shown how to read maps etc - I suppose for some people mountain biking is their first real exposure to the great outdoors and they feel less confident in using them.

I do feel that people who only ride trail centres because they can't read maps are missing out on a hell of a lot.

James you're so right. We run mountain bike navigation courses www.forestfreeride.co.uk and I'm often amazed how many people seem scared of maps.

It's as though a map is something to get you lost ... not to help you find your way

Stuart

why bother??
i like cycling not map reading.

My thoughts exactly. I'd rather get a little lost than having to stop every 5 minutes to reach into my backpack to get a map.

If I wanted to map read I'd have taken up Orienteering.

My thoughts exactly. I'd rather get a little lost than having to stop every 5 minutes to reach into my backpack to get a map.

Where do you ride though? If you want to ride in some of the more mountainous/remote areas of the uk its quite important to know where you are and where you are going.

it's nice to get lost* occasionally

*noting that we live in Britain, and nowhere is really "lost" anymore

map reading on a bike is just painful, except on top of a moor when you don't need to look at it every 5 min. I'm using my GPS all the time now, map has a backup. Only problem is when the GPS lost its signal and I have no clue of where I am. A bit scary until I got my signal back.

*noting that we live in Britain, and nowhere is really "lost" anymore

Have you ever been to Scotland? In winter?

TJ- I'm surprised you don't need a compass for hiking. I've been lost a couple of times on peat mosses in Wales or the Pennines and needed a compass to re-orientate & find my way back to a path. I guess it depends upon the visibility of th tracks you're following, but I think maps & compasses are a necessity

Where do you ride though? If you want to ride in some of the more mountainous/remote areas of the uk its quite important to know where you are and where you are going.

To be fair I do ride in the North Downs most of time where you can never get lost: If in doubt ride up until you reach the top of Leith, Holmbury, or Pitch Hill.

However, when I do travel to other places I tend to stick to marked trails as I am usually on my own and find that map reading gets in the way of a good ride.

I love maps.
There's enough technology in my life already without adding a GPS! 😉

i usually have a map. especially now i live in scotland. however i remember meeting a scotsman in the quantocks once and he'd never been and never had a map, that was about ten years ago when you'd not see a soul all day. he just had a few vague directions given to him by a bike shop. nutter! a friend of mine who knows the Qs really well has told me about the times he's got lost there, despite knowing it really well...

Moses - Member

TJ- I'm surprised you don't need a compass for hiking. I've been lost a couple of times on peat mosses in Wales or the Pennines and needed a compass to re-orientate & find my way back to a path. I guess it depends upon the visibility of th tracks you're following, but I think maps & compasses are a necessity

I don't think you read TJs post properly.

Maps rock.

Maps take me on adventures.

Nothing finer than an evening with a map, a couple of books, internet, and a choice single malt 8)

Actually the best bit is taking that route, and actually doing it and finding out what its like - thats the adventure bit.

I cycle for an adventure. and for a buzz. and to keep fit. and to get me places I wouldn't get to in many other ways.

I have to buy a couple of new maps this week - I *am* excited.

I don't read it every 5mins - most routes are simple enough to follow. Its in forest/lowland that turns etc are every few minutes. On hills, they are fewer.

I have been reading maps since a young un, have ML/Winter ML training. Maps have to be used with a compass in poor conditions.

i can read a map and navigate no probs, and I'm fine with it when walking, as there's much more time to plan the next turn. However, when biking, it really hacks me off to keep looking at a map for each junction (or remembering a few and checking every few)... but it's not just junctions you need to take, it's the ones you need to avoid, and this i think is where gps comes in nicely.

I have just discovered the delights of memory map, creating waypoints and downloading these to the gps (just a basic etrex). The ability to keep riding, and just check the map every so often is fab, riding straight past junctions that might have been 'should i, shouldn't i'.

What everyone else said, not to mention awkward to carry, fragile, you're always on a bloody crease on the thing, and at six quid a pop you need to spend as much money as a GPS system costs if you ride in more than a relatively small area.

For a lot of people's local riding, maps are redundant. In terms of sussing out new routes they can be useful, but they don't tell you that much about the terrain you're going to ride. For the majority of my riding I'd rather do it by route guides, word of mouth or blind exploration.

I can spend hours looking at maps and find that after a while you can build up a great mental picture of an area you've never been to, which can help on the ground. However, I do understand those who hate the stop-start of reading a map and biking. The trick is to build up your "map memory" - again something that grows over time.

I did 2 night rides in the Lakes over New Year in an area I'd never ridden before. We got lost a couple of times, but navigating and working out the correct route just added to the huge satisfaction of night riding in such an awesome area.

I do ride regularly with someone who can't read a map for toffee, and even after riding the same trails over and over still doesn't know where he is!!

BTW Women CAN read maps, they just have to keep turning them round to face the direction of travel!!

I love maps, me.

However, there's IS a difference between walking and biking. ON the bike, it's far too easy to shoot past a turn-off at speed, then have to back-track a long way. GPS is definitely better in that respect. However, I see the two as complimentary.

BTW Women CAN read maps, they just have to keep turning them round to face the direction of travel!!

that's what i do too! hehe

I'd rather get a little lost than having to stop every 5 minutes to reach into my backpack to get a map.

So agree with matt_outandabout. Planning a route over a map to get the feel of the terrain with a glass of something alcoholic to hand is a pleasure in itself. To preserve the OS map, and to make sure you are never on a crease, put the route into Memory Map or whatever and print out. Put in plastic folder - easy to get in and out of a pocket.

Have GPS in my pack just in case I get lost or need to double check on where I think I am.

I think it all depends on location. I don't bother with a map in the local wood, but if you're in the mountains I think it's irresponsible not to have one with you, especially in the winter or when the weather is changeable.

I love getting lost, and as a result my map reading 'skills' are undeveloped - though these days I do find it hard to get lost because I've done most rides dozens of times 🙁

I'm famous for carefully following the map only to go in a complete (unintentional) circle :o)

Moses - for me navigation is a process not an event. I set off knowing approximately my route and by looking around keep orientated - using tracks or not.

If you are always aware of where you are then you don't get lost. Be aware of where north is and what direction you have come from and observe the lie of the land.

I have been going out in the hills by bike and by foot for decades tho - it just becomes second nature to remain orientated in the landscape.

I carry a map and compass but my treating navigation as a continual process rarely need one. Plantation forest is the one place I find you need them a fair bit to ensure you are on the correct path.

When I lived in the Chilterns, which has a very dense minor road/bridleway network I used to enjoy occasionally riding away from home until I got lost then trying to my way back using a different route. Fun way of making yourself do extra miles.

The 'mental picture' thing is important as well - I too can look at a map and 'see' in my head the terrain, the basic layout and turns etc. This means some rides are very straightforward, and even not knowing a route, I may get the map out very occasionally - eg on coast to coast in Scotland, we got from Kingussie to Ballater, and only checked the map once all day (The turn off the road over the 'dont ride this bridge' the Feshie. Next day was the same, with only checks being made were road turns - after going over Mt Keen. But these were clear days on 'big mountain hill tracks'.

Micro-navving in Sherwood is a different matter! Mind you, its that small, getting lost is difficult!

I don't think I've ever been properly lost (When following a map)

I have. Sometimes the maps are wrong, sometimes trails have changed a lot over the years. Often trails on the map are just not there on the ground, or they're impassable. Or overgrown so you can't see them. Of course, if you're in the lakes or Scotland where your ride is 'this great big trail over this pass between two huge mountains, followed by this big pass trail back' then navigating is a breeze. Picking your way through a murky Welsh forest where no-one goes apart from foresters digging up old trails and laying new ones, and the map data is 15 years old is another matter.

It's not trivial, even if you do have a map.

I walk as well as cycle and love maps, I can happily spend ages looking at potential routes and joining up bits I know with unexplored areas.

It was nice when I moved house to look to see where I could ride from home - I have a choice of maps if I ride from home, The South Dales or The South Pennines - Burnley, Hebden Bridge, Keighley & Todmorden. To ride from home the South Dales map is more prefereable, riding from the other map results in muddy farm tracks, locked gates and bridleways that end suddenly.

Its got to be said though, map reading can end in some comedy arguments though!

I've never been lost cycling in the Peak District as I have a map with me.

However I did get 'lost' going around Cannock precisely because I didn't have any sort of map and was just following the way signs and trying to relate it to the sketch map in the car park - so had to go all the way round with no idea how near the finish or whether there was a short cut, which I didn't like, much prefer to know where I am.

It's a strange feeling seeing a path on a map and just "knowing" it'll be a good one in terms of view and terrain. The challenge is linking those paths up - and it's even more fun up in the Highlands where paths tend to dissapear to nothing, halfway down a vally miles and miles from any road...

As I think it's been said, if you review the path you'll take extensively in more terms than just "left here, right here" then you can often get a long way without needing to look at the map. It's only when you think you're at the top of that really nice decent the bloke in the shop mentioned and pointed to that you need to double check where you are- just incase it isn't this one!

Scotland where your ride is 'this great big trail over this pass between two huge mountains, followed by this big pass trail back' then navigating is a breeze.

Or its - "hmmm - the trail has disappeared. We need to go thru that pass and hopefully a trail reappears - well we need to go down the nth side of that glen"

^ been there TJ, many a time...

Aye - the classic disappearing path. I think some of the OS guys are just having a laugh making things up

Compared with friends I have a good, though not infallible, sense of location/orientation. Amusingly, one of the only times I've been really confused on the hill is when using a GPS - had the datum set wrong!

"lost" is a relative term. I've been confused about my location in misty conditions where the lie of the land didn't match up to my mental model. In some situations, like trying to escape a storm on the Cairngorms, this can be dangerous. Apart from the pre-walk/ride scan, it's the only time I consult maps. I even enjoy getting a bit "lost"!

I think it boils down to subconscious recognition of visual clues: mist, trees, high-hedges, zooming about, all cause you to miss features.

TandemJeremy - Member

Aye - the classic disappearing path. I think some of the OS guys are just having a laugh making things up

I know I would....

I can't read a mpa and ride at the same time-I'll crash...

Maps are easy and GPS makes it even easier.

Just study your map and go and explore?

Aye - the classic disappearing path. I think some of the OS guys are just having a laugh making things up

I often find that on Scottish maps, the dashes denote a right of way, which does not necessarily equate to a path.

What about in England and Wales, a BW becoming a footpath. So basically you have to ride back the BW and forgot about your loop. So weird.

Basically what CP said. I'm quite capable of reading a map, and have to for the odd AR race/event, but they are a bit of a pain in the a$$ on the bike. That's not to say I never do anything where I'd need one, but frequent stops can be annoying. I'm not that keen on map boards as sometimes I like to be able to see my front wheel.

I wouldn't go on a "big" ride (or walk) without one, but they're not always as much use as well-written directions.

Does anybody else find it really difficult to read a map accurately in Forestry Commission property?

BTW, Harvey maps (Perth-based?) tend to be rather more accurate about paths and visual boundaries

Love 'em

The OS does make some very small deliberate mistakes in its mapping in order to catch out plagiarists. If they find the mistake on someone else's map they sue.

Would seem slightly odd to make possibly life-threatening "mistakes" on a map to catch out copiers.

I like maps, I enjoy reading and using maps. When I'm walking. When I'm riding I just want to ride and the map is used to plan GPS waypoints, and as a backup in case all goes wrong. I have found that you can plan a great looking route and then actually find its scattered with unmarked fences, or the path has been obliterated by forestry works etc. I planned to do more of this plan->gps>-ride fun when i moved to scotland but I've actually found its harder to find a decent trail without local knowledge - something that looks fun on the map can be utterly dull. I did a massive climb on marsh for what looked like it would be a great descent essentially down the face of a cliff, it turned out to be a smooth well-flattened tractor path that just happened to be so steep you couldnt stop on it for about half a mile, but had nothing exciting to make it worth riding.

Coffeeking - thats the nature of riding in Scotland. Marked on the map as doubletrack - anything from 10m wide smoothly graded road to " a landrover went past here 10 yrs ago" Marked as singletrack - anything from a well maintained hardpacked path to "path - wot path"

You have to find out from someone who has been there before or explore for yourself. I found a delightful looking 5 mile downhill singletrack on the map - on the ground nothing - zero. cue 5 mile walk thru heather and bogs there was just enough path at the beginning to tempt me to start the descent

What about in England and Wales, a BW becoming a footpath. So basically you have to ride back the BW and forgot about your loop.

Nav in the car, maps all other times.

OS Explorter maps are truly one the best things invented, fascinating and informative.

In a few weeks time the HONC will be on, if previous years is anything to go by, you'll see groups of riders stood at junctions scratching their heads and looking at the route guide and map, while riders with GPS just sail by. Later the GPS riders will catch up to the head scratching riders again after they've done some unintentional short cut (but convinced they took the correct route), but the riders with GPS will have a tracklog recording to prove they took the correct route.
Yes there is a place for maps, but most of the time a GPS beats it hands down.

Yes there is a place for maps, but most of the time a GPS beats it hands down.

Not that I've ever had any problems with following a map/directions for HONC.

GPS is fine until it goes wrong at a critical point. Its my main issue with it. "theory of errors" - the more complex systems you have the more likely it is to go wrong and the more you rely on these complex systems the more likely you are to be stuck when they go wrong.

Learn to navigate and rely on your senses, then rely on a map, then rely on a GPS.

[i]Would seem slightly odd to make possibly life-threatening "mistakes" on a map to catch out copiers.[/i]

It's generally not life threatening stuff though, it's outlines of buildings, that sort of thing.

[i]"You're talking about the female of the species here, aren't you? Stop beating around the bush and just say so"[/i]
No, more the trail centre crowd (of which I know many) I don't know If they just like the man-made 'perfect' flow thing, or are scared to get lost, though seem to enjoy it when out on the 'big' hills (which isn't often)

[i]"Or is this a dig at us who use GPS and as for routes?"[/i]
Not really, but in a way. Whenever I've been led by someone with a GPS we've got 'lost' a few times. They seem to encourage you to stick with the GPS exaclty, the GPS is following the map inside itself and/or the less than carefully placed waymarkers, which is often not exact. They seem to encourage you to follow the GPS, instead of looking around and following your nose. Though none of the GPS' had OS mapping.

[i]"I do feel that people who only ride trail centres because they can't read maps are missing out on a hell of a lot"[/i]
Me too

[i]"Why not use a map board then?"[/i]
I've thought about it, but they would obscure the full vision of my front wheel, and are yet another thing to crash myself into when going over the bars

[i]"Micro-navving in Sherwood is a different matter!"[/i]
I've not tried a map there, just know where the car park is, the 'MTB area' and the odd trail in between. Riding off to the quieter bit of the woods via any track that takes my fancy is good fun. Mentally knowing roughly where I am and what direction I'm facing, but not recognising anything and having to guess which way will take my back to the car is good fun. Even if the rest of your group aren't quite so sure when you tell them you don't know where you are

[i]"Often trails on the map are just not there on the ground, or they're impassable. Or overgrown so you can't see them"[/i]
no, but you're not lost. When theres no trail on the ground its a pain though. I still know where I am, I just don't know where the trail is

TJ - studying the map first & being aware of surroundings is all very well, but if you're on a flat bog where the path disperses, in a misty drizzle; compass-work is unavoidable. Dropping down into the wrong valley from a watershed ridge is only too easy if they're only 20degrees separate.

IMHO.

I was on a group ride with someone with a GPS - he insisted we took a left turn when I was sure it was straight on - we took the route he said a couple of hundred yards later the GPS reset itself and sure enough - we were on the wrong trail

Moses - thats why I say its a process not a single event. The outline of the hills, the lie of the land, the direction of water flows - all these things give you the clues if you are continuously aware of them. I didn't say its never needed but I haven't had to use my compass in anger for many a year - and that includes being on the featureless cairngorm tops in whiteout on several occasions - and if there is anywhere to get lost then thats it.

On the "OS intentional errors" thing; did you know that "tourism" features in blue (such as the chairlifts on Aonach Mor) are only indicative and that the OS do not warranty that they're in the correct place at all? Best to be aware of these limitations when you're up there micro-navigating your way off.

"Why not use a map board then?"
I've thought about it, but they would obscure the full vision of my front wheel, and are yet another thing to crash myself into when going over the bars