Hi!
I'm currently riding a 16" Ragley Blue Pig MK2 that I built last summer. Although it is a fine, fun bike on downhill technical trails, when it comes to uphill (steepish trail / loose ground) I'm either loosing front wheel control or grip of the rear wheel and when it comes to long xc rides it gets tiresome...
I'm thinking of getting an Orange Five 2011 frame and swop components, any comparisons / suggestions?
I'm 168cm tall (5'6" in old money), will the 16" Orange FIve fit me?
Cheers!
Hi i have a Intense Tracer frame for sale ?
hmmm not tried the blue pig myself lol but nice looking bikes, but i think theres a big difference.... dont think you can compare the two really..both different bikes altogether ..i guess.... i luv my orange five it does everything and more.... 😉
I run a 456 and a Heckler here - HT & Single Pivot
However
Loss of front wheel uphill sounds like head angle, what fork are you riding? 5 will suffer the same when it gets steep.
For rear traction the full sus will help as it will track the ground a bit better but you still need to sort out weight distribution.
The 5 will make you faster but I would suggest getting someone to do some climbing skills with you to make the most of it
My fork is RS Revelation Dual Air U-Turn 120-135-150. Uphill at 120mm, downhill at 150mm. Static head angle of Pig is ~67.5 while Five is 67 - not much difference there. I suppose when I lower my fork to 120, thiw steepens the head angle, or not?
going faster downhill dowsn't puzzle me as I prefer slow, steep and technical trails, where the going is slow.
Getting to the top easier and with better control is a problem.
Climbing skills is always an issue, although I pedal hard.
Personally, I'd look at paying for a session with Jedi. If you're running the fork at 120mm it'll be steeper than a Five, so should have a much less wandery fork.
What length stem do you have? How many spacers do you have under the stem? What bars are you riding? Hi Rise?
Ideally you want to push more weight forward.
With regard to rear wheel grip, drop the pressures a little in the rear. What are you losing grip on? Muddy? Wet? Dry? Sandy?
What tyres are you running?
The last place I'd look to place the blame would be the frame, there are lots of other places to modify, which would be cheaper and if you dont start there the chances are you'll have the exact same issues with the Five.
Get as far forward on the seat as you can on the pig, it climbs fine. Going along is fine, just don't try togofast cos it won't let you. Point it doewn and it's ace!
Erm sorry but the five does not suffer wen it gets steep... That's down to the rider.... My five is just fine..
Through winter I had fat alberts on my five ...I admit the climbing was a lot harder. But great for downhill mud n roots. Now I've just put mountain kings back on for summer ...better and a lot lighter for climbi.g those steep climbs around the calder valley...
Erm sorry but the five does not suffer wen it gets steep... That's down to the rider.... My five is just fine..
That's fine, but if the OP has a really short stem, a high stem stack, low grip tyres and hi-rise bars then all that kit on a Five will make it climb very similar, and descend quite out of character.
The point is, issues with climbing or descending on a bike - when not related to the skill of the rider - can be greatly helped by setup.
My five (2005) used to be tricky to keep the front end down on. Moving the saddle forward 20mm transformed it, even with a 70mm stem. It's definitely worth playing around with your position on the bike before swapping frames, unless you're looking for an excuse to change frames of course!
My Five is a little light on the front but wouldn't say this is a problem as you just shift weight around just as youd move weight around if you were going down hill. Its sometimes an advantage when going up technical sections anyway
thank you all for your help and replies. No, not looking for an excuse to change frame, especially when the new is x5 the price of the old one... Just wanting to make my life easier on the climbs. I love the way my Pig descends
@rickon:
my front end setup is
Stem: Pro FRS 50mm, 5o rise (tapered fork)
http://www.pro-bikegear.com/publish/content/pro_2010/nl/en/index/products/stem/mtb.-productCode-PR31009.html
Bars: Ragley Wiser alloy, 71mm long, 25mm rise
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=52345
Spacers: 4cm
Perhaps the problem could be partially solved by lowering the bar one spacer...?
Tyre: Maxxis Ignitor 2.35
Regarding rear end, I used to have Fat Alberts 2.25 for summer, but I swapped them for Maxxis Dynomite 2.10 during winter for lower rolling resistance.
I tend to loose grip on steepish climbs with loose groung (gravel)
I would definitely try moving the spacers, very simple to do and costs nothing.
Remove all the spacers, pop them on top of the stem - that'll give you a lot of difference to riding in general.
thank you both! I have already removed one (down to 2cm now) will do a test ride and then lower it further and test again (I have spacers of 0.5 , 1 and 2cm , so plenty of combos to mess around with)
I flipped my stem over last night on my blue pig, it's a 50mm 6 deg rise,
it feels great flipped the other way.
after lowering the stem at +2cm from headtube, I noticed better control both on up and downhill.
I'll try to test with 0.5cm spacer today.
In the past (on XC bike) I have also flipped the stem over, but didn't like it...
Good work 🙂 No need to flip the stem, I'd recommend some lo-risers still - I feel so much more connected to the trail with lo-risers and my stem slammed to the headset.
Just got back from a short test ride: At first with +0.5cm from headset, then at +1cm. Although not much of a difference, I think that with the 1cm spacer I had better control, still I think that I liked the +2 more... But then again, going from +4 down to +0.5 is a lot of change, maybe that's why I find "halfway down" better. I'll have to ride a few time with +0.5cm to get the true feeling of it.
thank you all for your help, you just saved me loads of £££! 😀
IMO control uphill is mostly technique - weighting.
Stem length etc etc all secondary.
Tony does teach this well and I've never really struggled since I had a session with him whatever bike I'm riding.
The F/s might give you a bit more traction on the rear wheel but if your technique is off then your are not going to make the most of it.
That Tracer looks nice
djflex, thanks!
of course, there's always room for improvement, be it up hill or downhill! 😉