[Closed] Racing Faster tips for improving technique.

Just go and play in the woods/local tracks. Lower the seat a little (only an inch or so, if that) to begin with and just repeat a few corners over and over, trying to go faster.

Play with moving your body weight around and seeing the effects it has - outside foot down and push on the pedal on all turns, weight back/forth and see what effect it has on turning etc...

Clenbuterol is what you need.

If you're fitness is good..

Say you do 20 hours a week on the xc bike.

Instead of that, do 10 hours a week on the road bike, and the other 10 hours messing about on dh tracks and such, session things, to get your tech ability up.

Training smarter, not more, or something.

I'll be the first to say it - invest in some coaching with someone like [url= http://www.ukbikeskills.co.uk/ ]Jedi[/url]

Money very well spent

Jedi is what he needs.

When training try picking lines that mean you don't have to brake or very little,and keep it smooth. IMO it's all about momentum.

Another vote for coaching. I did a course with [url= http://www.aquickrelease.com ]AQR[/url] a couple of years ago (they're running some more in January and I'm hoping to get to one) and that was brilliant. Concentrated on technique and bike set-up and it made such a difference to the speed I could ride through stuff.

Then it's just a case of practising that and really concentrating on staying smooth. Get the lines and technique right and the speed pretty much comes by itself.

Good tips thanks guys, not sure the budget stretches to coaching 🙁
Now kicking myself for asking for a set of rollers for christmas (got fed up of riding ice on the road bike).

Oh, and ride with people who are faster then you. As always.

A 2:1 session with Jedi is cheaper than doing all the Gorrick Spring series. Not a lot really!

I'll get round to it sometime, I also lose time in the singletrack still!

All great advise. If you can't afford coaching the best thing you do is find somewhere locally that isn't too technical but pushes you to be smooth and start to look for faster lines.

Also have a look at you bike setup, are you getting the most out of any suspension you have, would you gain from running tubeless if you don't already (you will, as long as it set up well).

I'm guessing that if you ride the monkeys you live around in the south, the area around where the monkeys are run is fantastic training ground - minley use to be a favourite of mine, just the right level of tech.

fettling - Member
Good tips thanks guys, not sure the budget stretches to coaching

you need fitness coaching which is likely to focus on raising threshold and technique coaching to be confident on the trail

the returns will be far higher than bits for the bike

Good tips thanks guys, not sure the budget stretches to coaching

What you spend on coaching is worth 10x that money on equipment.
A £40 day with AQR (or Jedi etc, I'm only using AQR as an example cos of my personal experience) will be worth more to you long term than a £400 set of suspension forks.
If you're genuinely on a plateau results wise, then a one-off coaching session is the way forward. Once there you can work out for yourself how beneficial (or otherwise) it's been and go from there.

You don't need fitness coaching - IMO you'll probably reap bigger rewards from skills coaching.

Whilst going and practicing somewhere may help, if you have fundamental flaws with your technique you'll just be practicing the wrong thing!

Some people combine skill and fitness coaching. Which makes sense given that the sport requires both. It sounds like the OPs main issue is not having confidence in tyres/grip. That's easy to overcome with some suitable sessions.

iDave - nail on the head. Fitness whilst it probably isn't quite there is something I know how to sort from racing the Dark Side during the summer.
Looks like I will have to save my pennies up for the 20th Jan Jedi session! Just in time for the last Brass Monkey.

All of the above, plus my own two cents -

I find the technique for long sweeping corners and off camber sections is broadly similar, namely (obviously) to be comfortable on the edge of your tyres - the only way to "get" this is practice...and good tyres with big side knobs...and maybe lower pressures if you can take that risk in a race situation.

Try to ride lots in the mud, have fun skidding your bike and generally get a feel for what it's like having the tyres slide around beneath you. Keep your head up and looking at your intended line out of the corner, irrespective of whichever way the bike is pointing. Sliding is good.

I hope that's not too "beginner".

What are your feet doing? That's really important - it sets up the entire rest of your body position. Outside foot forward always - foot switching is key, I find! Though others will disagree.

How you do all this when you're on the final lap and 180bpm, I don't know.

Outside foot down surely...

Edit: and whilst it's good to go out all guns blazing, I definitely think consistent laps is a better strategy to adopt.

Your 3rd lap on Sunday was less than 90s slower than your 2nd, so I'd say you paid the price for your fast start earlier!

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[url= http://www.ffflow.com ]How interesting...[/url]
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Outside foot down and pressing hard...

I have aspirations to improve too, I've ridden several BM now - find I always gain in the singletrack sections only to be demolished when I get to the fireroads. Last race (rd1) I did exactly as you mentioned, started near the frontish tried to keep pace with the faster boys - I blew up 2.5hrs in and then spent the last 2 laps in pain just trying to finish!

My training plan is to use my GPS traces from the races and use the 800 to race against myself on the same courses to improve. That and to give proper heart rate training a go, rather than just riding my bike alot (which is what I do now)

I am always amazed at how fast the top 10 guys really are.

DT78 - just riding fast around race courses isn't the best use of your time to improve.

My training plan is to use my GPS traces from the races and use the 800 to race against myself on the same courses to improve.

That's more useful on the descents than the climbs IMO - you're unlikely to push yourself as hard when you're not racing, I'd be inclined to do reps on one of the hardest hills on the course instead (perhaps that slightly rooty doubletrack one with the tree at the top if you know the one I mean, you had to go to the right of if). You could use your time as a benchmark and do (say) 5 reps, with ample recovery. Even if you take your fastest attempt in the race you'll probably be quicker doing it fresh.

I'd be reluctant to just try and mimic the whole race away from the race - you'll just make yourself tired.

If you're going to do hill reps, have the effort finish 60-100m past the top of the hill or you get conditioned into reducing efforts at the top of hills.

I'd echo the comment about finding people faster than you to ride with. It's great motivation to push yourself (tehnically) when you have something to chase. They don't necessarily need to be a much better rider than you. It can work if they are familiar with the trial so can ride it faster as well.

Hmm fair enough comments - thing is I have to balance interest with training otherwise I simply don't do it. I thought trying to recreate the race would be better than what I do now (which is just go out a mess about on the bike for 2 hours 3/4 times a week). I was going to try to 'race train' once or twice a month followed with a couple of sessions a week HR training and a couple of normal 'fun' rides.

Last time there was a thread about training a book was recommend - Joe Atkin? It's under the xmas tree at the mo - plan to read it over the break

EDIT - Joe Friel

Joe Friel?

Nowt wrong with messing around on the bike. A risk of 'race training' is that you won't be as quick, and that's depressing.

Can you ride with faster people? Helps up and down hill! Fine line though - if they're too fast it's just a bit depressing! I spent a somewhat depressing long weekend in Wales after a prolonged rest through illness riding 100 yards behind a who's who of British Elite XC racers!

Agree outside foot down is often better on really slippy flat corners and off camber bits, and it's definitely the right starting point!

The important thing is to stay dynamic and loose on the bike - sometimes the situation demands you have your outside foot down, sometimes that your outside foot be forward - you have to be loose enough to respond to what the bike's telling you, on a split-second basis. Normally you go into the corner or off camber bit with your outside foot forward and gradually move it down as you reach the apex of the corner or the crux of the off camber bit.

For me outside foot forward is the default (not outside foot down). I sort of try to emulate this picture of Steve Peat (mostly unsuccessfully). Your knees should be really bent, you're almost pulling up on your SPDs as you go into the corner, then apply pressure through your feet at just the right moment when you need grip. You're driving the bike with your thighs, while your upper body is upright.

[img] [/img]

Admittedly this picture isn't the best example as he's using a little bit of a berm in the corner (the opposite of off-camber) but I think the basic body position still applies, although you wouldn't get away with your outside foot being quite as high as his is here (probably the opposite - at 8'o clock instead of 10'o clock).

I'm sure you're giving good advice, and you're probably a far better rider than me, but your posting history means I struggle to take anything you say seriously! No offense like.

"knees really bent"

Can you do that on an XC bike with the usual saddle height? I think not.

njee20 - Member
I'm sure you're giving good advice, and you're probably a far better rider than me, but your posting history means I struggle to take anything you say seriously! No offense like.

Who? *gets paranoid*

Looks like Peaty is wheelie-ing/manualling in that photo, not cornering on the limit as such.

Who? *gets paranoid*

No not you! I mean jhw! The "asky" thread, the ice axe/Brick Lane incident, and yesterdays "lowly support staff" thread do little for his credibility in my eyes!

Can you do that on an XC bike with the usual saddle height? I think not.

Not a cat in hell's chance, but then the advice about big chunky tyres doesn't really work on an XC race bike either!

Looks like Peaty is wheelie-ing/manualling in that photo, not cornering on the limit as such.

Aye, very difficult to tell from a still, he could be pedalling, or just shifting his weight momentarily as he gets his outside pedal down, I'd not be using it as the basis to change my riding!

jhw - you're talking bollox - Steve Peat is a left foot forward rider, he doesn't switch feet for opposite corners, almost no professional DH riders do.

you don't actually need your outside foot down for every corner or every off camber but telling beginners to do it will promote good weight shifting habit. you can still weight the outside of a bike with the pedals at any position.

Njee - it's piss easy to tell Peat's on one wheel from that still.
simply looking at it shows he's doing a rad "barturn" for the kids 😉 .

Njee - it's piss easy to tell Peat's on one wheel from that still.

Did I dispute that? I said, you can't tell what's happening and use that as a model for how to ride a bike.

Anyway, isn't your top tip to ride over slower riders?

Peat's body position in the photo illustrates very well the right body position for 90% of corners/off camber sections - bend your knees and keep your upper body straight. Like in skiing.

Going into a corner with your outside pedal low is effective if you're trying to conserve energy, or if your saddle is too high for a more aggressive approach...but your OP asks about more aggressive technique so I say, for most corners most of the time, "pedals level".

but your OP asks about more aggressive technique so I say "pedals level".

But he's talking about racing XC, where this is likely:

if your saddle is too high for a more aggressive approach

You're probably right - I'm trying to find a photo of an XC rider applying bent knees cornering technique I describe above and there aren't any...if a quick google image search for Tinker Juarez is representative...

There was a cracking photo someone put on here of Cadel Evans taken from behind, flat out at the apex of a corner with his bike almost horizontal. His saddle was way high up and from memory his outside foot was indeed way low. So if it works for him...

You're probably right - I'm trying to find a photo of an XC rider applying bent knees cornering technique I describe above and there aren't any...if a quick google image search for Tinker Juarez is representative

No. He's about 900 years old so he's knees will be bent for different reasons.

Mainly bermed photos I can see, where they are more level, but here's Schurter at Dalby:

[img] [/img]

And Absalon on the Olympic course:

[img] [/img]

You can tell from their body positions that the saddle is instrumental in their position, there's no way you could emulate Peaty's position.

only in one of those lame XC races you do njee 😉

Peat's body position in the photo illustrates very well the right body position for 90% of corners/off camber sections

there are faster cornerers than Peaty who visually have quite a different style.

You can tell from their body positions that the saddle is instrumental in their position, there's no way you could emulate Petey's position.

he clearly won't be able to squat down as low but all the rest of his style is the same.

Yes, so you can't emulate the position... You really are an argumentative chap aren't you?

Find me a photo of Peaty, on an XC bike with saddle fully raised, in the exact same position that he is in JHWs photo.

Back to the original point of this thread.Fettling said he would like to get top 20 but lacks the skills to do so. However, looking at his lap times,if he'd kept his first lap pace up he would have got 19th spot.So while its true better skills would help you could say you just need to get a bit fitter.(easier said than done though!)
And yes njee,i think GW could start an argument in a telephonebox!

Aye, fair point that! In fact he'd have only been a minute behind me, I need to get quicker as well 🙂

Try and ride with some riders who are a bit quicker than you on the downhills. Follow their lines, see what they are doing with their body positions. Good riders are moving constantly and keeping the speed up.

I was lucky enough to ride with Steve Peat a few years back, learnt quite a bit from him, especially a few small things that help maintain speed on singletrack.

Confidence is very important, so the more you can ride something the more confident you are likely to become.

Probably agree pete68, a little more fitness required. I have worked out a 3 point battle plan;

1. Work on endureance fitness during the holidays, at least 1 long road ride a week.
2. Work on out of the saddle stamina, I distinctly remember being out the saddle more on lap one, but not having the strength to keep it up.
3. Ride behind Dave Larkin next week coopying his every move to pick up some skills.

4. Don't go out drinking before the next race! It's got to have made a few places difference.

So you went out on the pop , and came in a respectable 25th, and then you moan .
Try a 48hr alcohol abstinance around racing and heavy training days .
Eat properly , and carb up before a long race like the BM's.
Rotate your brake levers so they are almost horizontal
'Float' over your saddle and head up / heel down through fast corners
Look through the corner at the vanishing point of the next section , not the lycra covered ass of the rider in front .
Now , Not sure on next point , but try either.- Twist torso , upper body and shoulders to either 'Apex' or 'Exit' as you enter the corner, not sure which is best but see what feels right.
Check you have not got too slow rebound on your forks as they might be tucking under and this will not inspire confidence.

I'm by no means an expert but I've recently discovered two key things that have improved my general riding (especially my cornering) massively.

They are 'look well ahead' and 'strive for perfect balance on the bike' It's almost become a mantra for me.

I always thought I looked far enough ahead but I did't and as soon as I did I speeded up. Switching to a hardtail from a full suss made me more aware of balance and the benefits of being in that perfect attack position. These two things have for me at least helped my cornering. Now I attack corners at speed out of the saddle daring my bike to lose grip. Sometimes if I get my weight in just the right place I can get the back wheel to drift out on loose corners which is the best feeling in the world.

thanks for the recommend guys.i coached richard stannard to off road national title this year , shame he fell ill for exterra 🙁