[Closed] Racers. Die trying or saftey first.

The Green Cross code man? Tufty?

Btw - WTF are you talking about? I'm imagining a ride out, followed by a pint drunk to fast - am I right?

Im never going to win a bunch sprint so favour the stupid attack method. Its never worked! 😀

Yep went for the stupid attack, I was the man for 2.5 seconds.
Racing richcc racing.

Kamikaze!
Good on you. Recovered yet?

no point waiting to be outsprinted...

I've never really raced on the road, but I've marsalled quite a lot. Roughly 90% of people who start would be absolutely gob-smacked if they won wouldn't they? They'd not know what hit them. With that in mind, I always love seeing a totally futile attack going mental off the front for a few seconds. 🙂

Shall I try the oldgit approach at Smithfield Nocturne? Gulp.

I got a pal launches off the start every single week at Beastway cos he has a £1 bet with another bloke he can get the holeshot. Not the best way to start a MTB race for a midpack rider, but its fun watching him go for it. 🙂

ps good on you for giving it a try, maybe it will become addictive?

I always liked to mix it up for the road races I did - waiting for the sprint sometimes (I could usually get a 2nd/3rd/4th place though never a win) or going for it a few laps from the end in an attempt to TT it for the win (again, this never actually worked though I did come close a few times).

I can't say I've ever tried the proper suicide attack early in the race unless there was an obviously strong break to go with.

Yep fully recovered. It's a tough one because if you stay safe in the bunch your hardly working at all throughout the race. That's a few times now I've stuck my neck out and died. The transition from bunch to break is biblical.
Problem with last night is when I failed it was the time the bunch was winding up for the finish.
I was reminded of the scene in Apocalypse Now, when the guy leaves the boat and gets attacked by the Tiger....never leave the boat never leave the boat never leave the boat, evcept it was never leave the bunch.

I seem to have a different problem, head says yes, legs say no 😕

Attacked down a long descent last night, broke away, heart rate held 190bpm, then legs just packed up, lost every ounce of power, the pack then flies past with me struggling to even turn a gear. Took about 3 mins before I was back up to speed 🙁

Strange how you can feel so good one minute and then all of a sudden lose everything in your legs.

Simple answer I guess, more training required 😆

Death or Glory. It's the only way to go.

See it's not me old legs, no. What appens is when I attack it suddenly gets very windy 😳

did both really, got my best results and a few wins in bunch sprints and last mile/km solo attacks. that tactic only worked in lower quality events though. got in a few race winning breaks but have to concede that i wasn't good enough and generally got dropped and often failed to finish in the bunch after that. i could count in single figures the races i finished off the front in a break, out of maybe 200 starts.

Death or glory!

As my thermodynamics lecturer once said;

<realy heavy russian accent>
"Nobody wants to be a looser, are you a looser?"
</realy heavy russian accent>

I always prefered making people suffer on a climb then not letting up at the top, unfortunately a FUBAR'd knee means ambling allong on flat pedals is about the limit of my ability now.

BANZAI!!!!!!

I was working at a Premier Calendar road race a few weeks ago, driving the broom wagon, we picked up a rider who a few minutes before had been off the front in a big attack. He was quite philosophical about it - either you make the moves or you're just an also-ran so he tried to make one of the moves. It failed and he went out the back but at least he'd tried!

It can work - I've had decent finishes in road races as a result of daft looking attacks. I'm no sprinter, the only way I can come close to winning is from a long attack.

You generally get an idea of which tactic will work, depending on the course. If it's a pan flat course then you'll have to make the break or go with a break and hope you're the best sprinter in the group. If it's a hilly, twisty course then a lone break away may work. I've won my fair share of races from either tactics, if you race in Belgium then it's attack, attack, attack.

I fancy road racing, but have no idea where or when the run them or what the deal is in general.

aP - Member
Shall I try the oldgit approach at Smithfield Nocturne? Gulp.

If you do, I undertake to cheer. What colours? 😀

[i]I fancy road racing, but have no idea where or when the run them or what the deal is in general. [/i]

Molgrips, have a look here:
http://new.britishcycling.org.uk/road

There's tabs down the left about getting into it, a Road events calendar etc. It's a redesigned site, British Cycling have only just launched it and there's a few minor glitches but it should be fairly self explanatory. You don't need a licence or anything at first either, don't let the rules and regs scare you!

Best bet is to find a local roadie club who race, they'll be happy to show you the ropes. Loads of midweek circuit races on at the moment as well, now is the season for it. Whereabouts are you based? Tell me and I'll tell you where the races are! 🙂

Aldershot in the week, Cardiff weekends.

I fancy myself as a sprinter, so a sprint finish would be pretty cool 🙂

I know it's not a true indication and it's completely different to racing but what's your 10mile TT time oldgit?

This is the only thing i have to gauge and i'd love to enter a race next year

BigDummy - I shall be endeavouring to borrow a TCC jersey for Saturday. I will only be making a 6 lap appearance before expiring in a quiet corner.
I shall be making my grand entry at 17.30, exit about 15 minutes or so later...

trickydisco
I've not done a TT since the 70/80s and I wasn't fast, only went under the hour 2 up.
Last night was a Crit, 1 hour plus 5 laps long, flat and windy, three single file corners per lap. Average speed +/-29MPH. Looking at my computer during the race 24MPH slowest 36MPH fastest.
I'm 50 and that's in the LVRC racess. I've only done one 4th Cat ride recently and that was far slower. LVRC starts at 40 years old but doesn't take licence Catagory into account or previous history.
If I race in 2011 I'll be going back to BC racing.
Plus I don't ride much. One race per week, one midweek session and a Sunday session, but obviously you have to work hard during those rides.
That puts me midfield in road races, top tenish in XC Vets or top five in Grand vets, top third in cyclocross.
My mates doing better using the Carmichael time crunched plan.
Have been racing on and off since the early seventies though.
Hope that helps

I was told recently by a guy that went to recent lecture on science in our sport, that a fit rider if correctly placed could survive in a pro peleton. I believe he was actually refering to the TDF, and it was based on the recordings of riders outputs/watts.

[i]I was told recently by a guy that went to recent lecture on science in our sport, that a fit rider if correctly placed could survive in a pro peleton. I believe he was actually refering to the TDF, and it was based on the recordings of riders outputs/watts. [/i]

No chance. Not a hope in hell. Most UK Elites would struggle to survive for more than half of it, as to an amateur rider they wouldn't even get out of the neutralised section, no matter how fit. Fitness has very little to do with it, it's bike handling in a tightly packed peloton at (very) high speed that matters more.

Molgrips: if you're in Aldershot mid week, check out Hillingdon Cycle Circuit in West London: http://www.hillingdoncyclecircuit.org.uk/

Go down fighting was my motto in short course xc..... Go out hard , ride hard finish hard ...... worked well Then and works well in 10tts

Bit more conservative in distance stuff though - not done enough speedwork in last 2 years to cane it over distance !

OK just what was said at the science museum a few weeks back. I can't remember who said it, but Simon thingybob from Sigma Sport seemed to back it up.
I assume if using a watt meter some of the guys in the peloton i.e not climbing/sprinting/chasing etc were only knocking out small numbers.
But don't ask me I didn't cook it?

Bigdummy - let me know a way to contact you so's we can meet up on Saturday, even though you are south of the river and KW :p

James, Looking at the road races in the North West (closed circuits are all I can find), I need a race license to enter any of them, is that correct?
Also, since I'm just doing it for a laugh, which criteria should I be looking for? I presume cat 4? And should ignore any that don't have this?

Ta.

You will automatically be a 4th Cat.
If you're old enough you could look at TLI or LVRC races, I think TLI is stronger in the North West. Both are cheaper than racing BC events. The only downside is that most of their events are closed circuit which can get boring week in week out. Hence I'll be racing BC next year.

XC racing is simply going flat out all the time. No tactics really. Sprint off the line and keep the hammers down til you finish or die.

Looked at that Hillingdon site. It's not clear, but it seems to be a Crit type race, is that correct?

Yep Hillingdon is a Crit (i'm sure?)
I'm finding that XC and CX are getting more tactical nowadays, well in that little groups now form.

No, Hillingdon is not crit racing, it is closed circuit racing - the circuit is approximately 1km long and has no sharp corners.
I think that you can buy day licenses for the Tuesday night series, or otherwise go up on Thursday night for group training.

Soreeeeee 😳
Yes closed circuit, still calling them crits though 😀

Oldgit, Was it Simon Richardson of Sigma? I think you have a point re. a fit person surviving in a pro peloton. You only have to see the standard of the guys at the back of the Tour Series races (ie. those that are merely surviving rather than competing) to know that it might be possible.
Not so sure about surviving at Tour level though. From reading about the experiences of some our domestic teams competing abroad in 2.2 races it seems a big step up from British racing.

I hear you on the transition from bunch to break being massive. My first ever crit at Castle Coombe was a sharp learning curve. My ten second mini break where for a moment I felt king of the world riding along to the Chariots of Fire music soon saw me swallowed up with my arms and legs feeling like lead. Honestly I was so dead for the next few minutes that when I tried to get out of the saddle to pedal I nearly fell over the bars.

Never fails to amaze me how 98% of the peloton refuse to do any work or even entertain the thought of a breakaway in a Cat 4 race despite the fact that only a handful are good enough to contest the sprint.

Indeed.
What I need to know is where I will fit in starting with a new licence. I'll be 51 does it mean I'll be racing guys in their teens, twenties and thirties?
Edit, yep Simon Richardson and Prof Louis Passfield?
Edit edit. I don't know if there are transcripts of his lectures on the net, I've not checked.

Thanks oldgit. Yep, TLI looks like a better bet, lots of races near me through summer. Their website is absolutely the worst on earth though, I'll see if they want some help with that.

Samuri, I've been having a go at road races the last few weeks. I was put off by the cost and complexity of the BC route, so joined TLI. It's £15 membership and around £10 per race. There are quite a few round the NW, I've done the last 2 at Oulton Park, one in the Cheshire Road series, a Darley Moor and have a couple more lined up. They cater for all age groups (I'm 45), pretty relaxed organisation, but fairly serious racing up at the sharp end.
They do a lot of midweek races which suits me cos I don't have much time at weekends.
Their calendar is on www.theleagueinternational.com. LVRC also worth a look if you are >40.

ah, beat me to it :o)

Thanks Chris, just filling out the TLI form now. 😉
Do you *have* to be a member of TLI to race in those events? Just in case they're a bit slow and haven't got it back to me by the first race I have my eye on, the Seamons race on the 29th....

I'm 42 so we'll be racing in reasonably similar classes. 😉

aaah, no hang on.
There's only actually one race left in TLI that I could attend, never mind.

Fairly new to road racing but always try and do two things.
1)Lead the race even if it's only for a very brief period
2) Try to get in at least one break.Reckon you need at least 4 though and everyone has to do their turn for it to work

Been away for a couple of laps in at least a couple of races but caught as the move has broken down. It is far easier to just sit in the bunch but more fun to try and attack

It's hard not to get a bit annoyed with slackers. Two weeks ago two guys didn't lift a finger. Then we were lapped by the other race with just one lap to go, these two slackers actually jumped onto the back of the other group and got towed to victory. Which BTW is right against the rules, as it occurred out of the marshals view there wasn't much we could do about it but there was nearly fighting going on afterwards. I don't think they were cheats just clueless. They must have thought 'this road racing is easy' just stay in the bunch for an hour then join the other race and get pulled to the win.

Last night was a Crit, 1 hour plus 5 laps long, flat and windy, three single file corners per lap. Average speed +/-29MPH. Looking at my computer during the race 24MPH slowest 36MPH fastest.

Oldgit, you did say mph and not kph? 29mph average over and hour plus?!!! 😯 Is that normal?! I did consider myself to be a reasonably fit 30 year old but I may have to downgrade the 'reasonably' bit. Must admit that I have had the experience of been out on the road doing a steady 20-21 mph on the flat and being left for dead by people who are probably twice my age. Their bikes were probably 3-4 times the price of mine but I'm sure that makes minimal difference. Fair play though, I'm sure it takes a lot of hard work and 100s of hours in the saddle to get to that level 🙂

I think I'll give road racing a miss and stick to mountain biking, short solo road rides or slow-ish 50-60 mile road rides with friends and a cake/pie/pasty/pint/chips* at the mid point.

*delete as appropriate

ross980 don't forget that's a bunch working hard together, don't think for a moment I train at that speed. I'll stick my neck out here but I'd say you'd have to be able to cope with 18MPH average on your own at least, looking to nudge 21MPH average.
Closed circuit races can be like bunch TTs.
Off to get the speed for the fast boys, it's mind blowing.

ross980

Milton Keynes Bowl Closed circuit race. 1 hour + 5 laps 51Km
A lap is under a KM.

oh, fair enough. Still seems very quick though! I have averaged 19.5mph on a reasonably flat 32 mile loop but that is going flat out (annoyingly 20mph average has been elusive and 21 would need a lot of hard work)

The speed difference as I've said before is immense between a solo rider and a bunch.

I'll be racing again next week on the same circuit. What do you do? stay in the bunch and never try or keep trying and dying?

Ross980 - the Oulton park circuit race I do seems to work out at 25mph for 32 miles. Is that a bit more sensible? It's undulating with mostly fast bends. I guess the standards at oldgit's race must be pretty high, I'm fairly OK in a bunch at those speeds, but up at 29mph average, I couldn't do it.

I'll be racing again next week on the same circuit. What do you do? stay in the bunch and never try or keep trying and dying?

Surely the best thing is to try, but do it at the right place and time and make it count rather than waste your efforts on kamikaze attacks. Easier said than done of course...

Oi you know why my circuits fast.
Think I'll try the same. No way can I go early and if I leave it too late I'll get out sprinted.
In hindsight going with 4Km to go was never going to happen
Edit, Plus you've got me all confused now, I wasn't planning on having to do the 3 Peaks mid road season. I only have one brain cell per dicipline.

i firmly believe that if you can round in the bunch consistently then you are in contention to win an event. you have to try some sort of move be it a sprint late attack or early break...whatever suits your strengths. if you end up failing big time so what. theres always another race and you don't have be the best athlete to win. sometimes it helps to ride somewhere nobody knows you and make your attack look crap.