Been having problems with my alloy nipples snapping on one of my wheels. Phoned lbs who said they would replace with brass and quoted £35. When I dropped it off the other day it suddenly changed to 'needs all new spokes as we cant get brass nipples to fit them - £65/70'
They said it would be easier for them to just rebuild the whole wheel - rather than just do the nipples.
Am I right to feel slightly frustrated by that and a doubling in price? Seems a waste to just junk some perfectly fine spokes.
Wheel in question - https://www.upgradebikes.co.uk/Catalogue/Wheels/Kinesis-UK/Kinesis-Maxlight-IX-29-Wheels-2
Normally get good service but different guys in shop this time.
any one who build wheels,and has done for a while,won't use ally nips.
they are more trouble than they are worth,no advantage to using them.
I can fully understand why they are saying needs new spokes/nips,maybe not for the reason they are telling you though
Whiff of BS I think, all looks very standard in the nipple department which would make the original quote appear reasonable BUT they may have some valid concerns about corroded on nipples and the job being a right PITA so decided they wanted to replace the whole lot or not bother. I'd try another shop (not true, I'd do it myself but you know what I mean)
More like they can't get the alloy nipples off the spokes, which is quite likely, or maybe they don't stock 1.8mm nipples (also quite likely).
Is that £70/pair or per wheel? For a pair it's quite cheap I'd have thought, for an individual wheel it's expensive but not completely unreasonable, depends on the spokes and what they charge for a wheel build. As R_B says, I suspect there's an element of its going to be a shit job to do, and priced accordingly.
If you can get the nipples off then just buy a bag of brass nipples and do it yourself, as wheel building jobs go it should be pretty straightforward<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> IF</span> the old ones come off.
Can't get brass nipples my arse:
(Assuming that comment about needing 1.8mm nipples is correct, anyway.)
(Assuming that comment about needing 1.8mm nipples is correct, anyway.)
The kinesis site says tripple butted so I assumed 1.8mm nipples. Which is less common than normal 2.0mm nipples. Which is why I said they might not have any (and would explain why they changed their mind about just swapping the nipples).
Yeah, I figured the same logic. Bike shop can't get nipples to fit spokes, though… that's quite something.
The shop may not have any 1.8mm nipples and may not bother searching eBay but it isn't an exotic size, I'd have thought regular bike shop suppliers like Madison would have them in stock ready to go. What next, can't get spokes that length you need a new rim and hub 🙂
Classic LBS B.S. - I'm pretty much done with shops - I'm sure there are some really good ones but most of them suck . For me the biggest issue is them tailoring their advice and service in accordance with stock - They should either cater to one's need or be honest and say they can't help you . . I think they find most enthusiasts irritating - they just want clueless customers to hand over money on a whim . That's not saying i don't empathize with them in a tough environment because I do - Ive tried all five LBS's close to me because I wanted to shop local - In the end I just learnt to do everthing myself - money saved on labour goes on tools and now I don't have to listen someone judging my product choices . .
Madison have 2.0/12 and 1.8/12 brass nipples in stock RRP is £10 for a box of 100. 14mm is £13/box and 16mm £15/box, both available in 2.0 and 1.8.
Need to de tension evenly to keep rim good, remove nipples, clean spoke thread, new nipples and then re tension/true.
If the nipples are seized on the spokes it can become time intensive to remove, especially on thin spokes if they are just winding up, they may end up as scrap anyway.
I would estimate at an hours labour a wheel (assuming no major issues) plus whatever nipples you want, brass, brass prolock, squorx etc
If its just they dont have the nipples I would be annoyed, if its the nipples are seized to the spokes I would say its fair enough (but up to you whether you want to go ahead with the revised estimate).
Alloy nipples?
No... Just no... Ever...
Cheers!
I.
Many LBS stock only 2mm nipples, 1,8 is pretty unusual.
It may be more "it'd take us a month to get them in on our next order" rather than "we can't get them" (and it IS possible that their supplier may not stock them, albeit the ebay link would sort that.).
Thanks everyone, really helpful comments.
It is just for one wheel and labour costs is £35 for a wheel rebuild so in price terms for sapim race spokes and brass nipples it seems reasonable. Although the rear will probably need doing so looking at £140ish which is getting expensive.
The comments about the nipples being seized may be where they are coming from and a PITA of a job hence making it easy with new stuff. I can see their point of view but a bit more flexibility on giving it a go with just nipples first would have really helped me out - I am paying after all.
Wont be done until end of next week either, so if I change my mind I have time!
Note to bike companies - forget alloy nipples please...
One option is to have a go yourself and if you mess up /then/ get the professional rebuild.
That was my approach anyway. I have now built 5 wheels including an XC717/XT that I've thrashed for years 🙂
I think you should forget the 1 hour time estimate mentioned above if it's your first wheel (it took me around 3 hours before I was happy with the most recent wheel I built).
How long are you prepared to be without the wheel?
There might very well be a sensible reason for them to do what they suggest but it's not the one they've given you, either someone's got confused or they're bullshitting you. This is a bit tricky to deal with as a customer tbh... I guess I'd sort of passively aggressively question them on it, just to see what they say.
There's a pretty good chance that the old nipples are too destroyed to remove- you can find they crack under the spoke nipple, or strip from the other side, once the spoke's out you can break the nipple off but you can't do that when it's still a wheel so that'd all be a perfectly good reason. But why not tell you that, if that's what's going on?
Am tempted to do it myself but finding time tricky just now. I'll probably end up with a four year old helping!
NW you are right they just were not straight with me and thats the annoying bit. If I went to my first choice of bike shop the other side of town who are MTB specific I know they would have been totally honest and upfront with it all.
I'll mull it over for a day or two and see what's next but I'm not taking the rear in for sure.
1.8 nipples are common enough , but the hassle of removing buggered alloy ones just takes more time , so costs more.
Does seem like the lbs have not explained very well. Assuming they are not out to rip you off.
NW you are right they just were not straight with me and thats the annoying bit.
Who are you speaking to? Sounds like usual you talk to a sales guy at till who talks to mechanic... doesn't understand what mechanic is telling him.... who tells you a mix of BS and confusion to cover up their ignorance.
Decided to get wheel back. It was normal guy in shop but decided I'll slacken off all nipples myself then ask for swap to brass at other shop I use. I really think spokes are OK so hopefully will keep bill down now
Decided to get wheel back. It was normal guy in shop but decided I’ll slacken off all nipples myself then ask for swap to brass at other shop I use. I really think spokes are OK so hopefully will keep bill down now
If you want to keep costs down and reuse spokes then why not buy the brass nipples your self and fit them as you remove the alloy ones? At least each spoke then gets a nipple back on and you save them a time consuming job and its a wheel truing job...
To conclude and for speed dropped off with the excellent Pedals in Edinburgh. Just 50 quid to sort both wheels. No new spokes and price of nipples included.
Sorted! Thanks all for commemts
Oooh...name and shame on the other shop?