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Isnt that classed as undertaking? Nkob.
[quote=creedy ]Isnt that classed as undertaking? Nkob.
It's not undertaking if you are in a separate lane.
Normal road users shouldn't prevent other road user from doing naughty things, they are not the police, but merely pointing out that another road user is being a bit of a dick is par for the course. Pointing out the police who should be setting an example, (oh and possibly, telling other people they shouldn't be driving in bus lanes) are breaking rules sounds fair game to me. Knocking on the window to do it kinda gets you into grey area (pedantically a "collision" has occurred) so not a great move. Coppers getting arsey at being caught out, abuse of power. but yeah no-one looks good in that video.Another bad day for cycling I'm afraid. It's not the cyclist's job to tell other people that they're driving in the wrong lane.
This is assuming the bus lane is in operation, if it wasn't then yeah cyclist is bang out of order obviously.
I have the utmost respect of the Police for not making the rather sad little man eat his camera. Why would anyone a) hate the police and b) behave in such an antagonistic manner? This guy’s attitude would soon change if he was knocked off his bike and the Policemen involved witnessed the event that secured prosecution.
If you look at the amount of cycle/bus lane remaining it’s approximately 30-40 ft; a moot point if any.
What really occurred is that this guy was clearly enjoying (fair enough) zipping along and became enraged (adrenalised) because ‘his’ route was occupied/blocked. He then proceeded to ‘vent’ his emotion towards the police.
I have the utmost respect of the Police for not making the rather sad little man eat his camera. Why would anyone a) hate the police and b) behave in such an antagonistic manner? This guy’s attitude would soon change if he was knocked off his bike and the Policemen involved witnessed the event that secured prosecution.
If you look at the amount of cycle/bus lane remaining it’s approximately 30-40 ft; a moot point if any.
What really occurred is that this guy was clearly enjoying (fair enough) zipping along and became enraged (adrenalised) because ‘his’ route was occupied/blocked. He then proceeded to ‘vent’ his emotion towards the police.
I'll guess at A)because the police behave in such antagonistic manor when you call them out for being naughty? B) dunno cause he's sick of so many people flouting driving restrictions and then seeing a [b]policeman[/b] doing the same thing maybe?Why would anyone a) hate the police and b) behave in such an antagonistic manner?
so only a bit wrong then? That's ok then. It looks like if no-one ignores the buslane a cyclist would get a clean run bike lane/buslane/bikelane all the way along that section supposedly away from cars with only an occasional bus/taxi to contend with (none at the time of the vid from what I can see), so kinda vexing when people screw that up.If you look at the amount of cycle/bus lane remaining it’s approximately 30-40 ft;
What really occurred is that this guy was clearly enjoying (fair enough) zipping along and became enraged (adrenalised) because ‘his’ route was occupied/blocked. He then proceeded to ‘vent’ his emotion towards the police.
Which got him stopped for several minutes and involved in an argument that he was never going to win (whether he's right or not). If he was in that much of a hurry, he'd just have thought "hmm, some careless, inconsiderate motorists blocking my lane but hey I can get past, it's no big deal, I'm on my way again"
Which I do about 12 times in an average commute.
Cyclist just seems to want to prove to all on YouTube that he's a big boy, picking fights with The Fuzz. Sadly, to me, he comes across as a moron. 🙄
I've seen this clip before
There are no winners here just different types of loser.
Donk, was it you?
On the scooter video, all it would have taken was for the scooter to move 6" to his left and the cyclist would have been taken out whilst undertaking.
Talk about going looking for it.
If he's so smart then he should have had the sense to back off a touch until the scooterist had sorted out their road positioning.
He got warned about swearing, I'd have s25'd him the second time he did it, regardless. He also cycled the wrong way up the road back towards the officer when he was walking toward him. If you're gonna pick nits...
Not sure what happened, I got bored of him and the clicky sound. And the whine of his voice.
He went about it badly but I can see his point.Donk, was it you?
Agreed the scooter thing was well dodgy, scooters are always speeding up cycle lanes round here, I was expecting her(?) to pull across and squish him. Looked like he did the equivalent of a "punishment pass" drivers do to cyclists when they [i]think[/i] we shouldn't be where we are - and as such pretty inexcusable.
I'm all for a bit of safe undertaking, but filtering at 30 in moving traffic? His own comment to the vid said he was going 30/31, kmh presumably.
The scooter clearly wasn't aiming to use the lane, it headed right at first - just hadn't got sorted out (rider skill, presumably). But he saw her wheels brush the line and thought he'd teach her a lesson.
As for the police one, those officers behaved with some restraint after all the finger-waving and shouting from the cyclist.
Bet he didn't have reflectors on his pedals.
Yes, it does seem to end a bit early - you're waiting for the inevitable outcome of him either being nicked for public order or riding off and then being chased down, tasered and nicked for failure to stop... 😈
Riding on the road often needs you to be defensive in your riding. It can be tiring having to deal with the idiots that you endanger your life and angering when you see the police (who should be enforcing the law) breaking the law (if that's what's happening here).
The cyclist was pretty naive to knock on the cops window but I can understand the frustration.
The Police should have more professionalism and instead of wasting their time trying to save face (when there are probably more important things they could be doing) and further antagonising a member of the public they supposedly serve. I understand this is a frustrating job but go and actually stop the people doing real harm and not those who are just trying to go about their life.
People shouldn't use strava whilst on a commute in a busy main road during rush hour imo.
keep it for the hills when you don't need to pay so much attention to road laws.
Not saying strava caused this, just saying it shouldn't be done. PB's aren't worth it.
The recording cyclist clearly has a large chip on his shoulder, and while he's not entirely "Wrong" his actions didn't serve to help his cause overall.
If you are going to knock on the window of a police car, stop and have the conversation, if he'd stopped and calmly discussed his concerns about the police car and several other vehicles, occupying a bus lane, he'd possibly have gotten much further. Start off looking for an argument with fellas who's job requires them to carry Batons, Cuffs and Pepper spray and have the right to arrest you on the thinnest of pretexts should they desire, and you just know you are not going to win the point...
Having a Camera does seem to bring out the belligerent tosser in a lot of cyclists, I actually cycle to work primarily because I enjoy cycling, turn it into an exercise in looking for the next transgressor to shoot and shame on youtube and it must suck the joy out of an otherwise fun activity lightly sprinkled with minor annoyances.
Then there's the real reason most people actually commute with helmet cams running, it's simply So they can be Youtube heroes; the format is pretty predictable Start an argument with a dick head, triumphantly use the phrase [I]"You're being recorded by the way...."[/I] a couple of times and then hope it it escalate to abusive language and/or fisticuffs so you can offer the fruits of your folly for dissection by the internet...
Part of me actually thinks we should all be passively filming each other on the roads, just to keep everyone "honest". Having in the back of your mind that using your phone, using the wrong lane, not signalling being aggressive might get you three points, should some footage end up going to the rozzers, or to offer definitive proof of liability when a crash occurs... [U]In theory[/U] it could be a good thing, but the practise isn't the same as the theory.
I don't think it should be used as a "legitimising pretext" for confrontations, but that seems to be their main use...
plyphon - MemberPeople shouldn't use strava whilst on a commute in a busy main road during rush hour imo.
keep it for the hills when you don't need to pay so much attention to road laws.
Not saying strava caused this, just saying it shouldn't be done. PB's aren't worth it.
Please tell me you're joking?
A lot of what is said in the discussion I'd agree with. This is not my finest moment.
Some background I’ve been cycling to work since I was teenager clocking in to early shifts in factories in the 70’s.
I’ve been filming for years, as an insurance measure having been hit a couple of times.. You’ll see that in other instances I say nothing and just ride on (and get flack for not reporting it!) I’m not looking for trouble. I’m just cycling to work. I’m actually pretty laid back.
This video was filmed a month before I put it up and I only posted it in response to a tweet about the Edinburgh police instructing drivers to respect cyclists and cycle provisions as one of their own had got hit. Some friends pointed me at the tweet and suggested I post my video.
For those who don’t know Edinburgh the bus/cycle/taxi lane was operational and none of the cars should have been it. There is a by-law that can be interpreted that the police can use it but they are instructed not to (according to their many colleagues who have seen the video).
If it hadn’t been a police car I would have cycled on as I did for the rest of drivers, I am not some kind of vigilante. Life is too short, but what pissed me off was that it was a police car and by leading into the lane they were encouraging all the other cars to do so.. All it takes for us is to continue to ignore stuff like this and it will continue.
I think what saddens me about these comments is many of you seem to think I should have said nothing. I know I acted like an arse but some good may have come out of this with Edinburgh police cracking down this week on drivers using the lanes and advanced stop line and RLJ cyclists (these are people that give cyclists a bad name). Since I started this reply (I had to wait 4 hours to post) two officers came by to ask for more evidence for the campaign.
Since the video I’ve heard that the two officers have had a wee bit of a hard time for their creativity but those that know them say it was in character. After all they could have left it and not run after me brandishing a notebook.
Some wee points: I wasn’t really on a strava pb (that was a joke for some friends who had suggested I post the video). Only about 10 people saw it for the first few weeks.
The scooter incident was just that, blame on both sides, I should have overtaken and/or anticipated the rider might weave back in. It was mph.
What makes me smile a little is that many of you seem to be put the onus on me. Sure I could have ridden on but given I’ve been cycling since the 60s I sometimes get annoyed. The press from one of my other videos has helped launch a campaign against bad cyclists and drivers in the city. So although your opprobrium hurts it might be worth it.
Thanks for posting ragingbike, nice name by the way.
(I love it when things like this happen, didn't we get cyclegaz coming on here as well once?)
Well done coming on here to explain, brave move, think you could be in for some flaming.
good luck.
Thanks. 🙂 The ragingbike moniker came from an old website i used to run which measured the offset emissions for commuting cyclists. The raging came from the idea of a torrent of cyclists not anger. Got to admit, i hate the idea that my actions would give cyclists a bad name.
at Donk 🙂
Well done for coming on. You seem more reasonable off screen! (Although I'm still worried for your safety filtering at that speed.)
Don't know what I would have done in those circumstances - most likely ignored it and ridden on. If I had tapped on the window I suppose I could have just 'overlooked' the fact that the coppers were in the lane and asked if there was any chance they could issue tickets to the other numpties in the queue as it was making your commute more dangerous...
Please tell me you're joking?
100% not.
It's a cyclists duty to be a responsible cyclist. The moment you are timing things, even if "just out of curiosity", it becomes a competition - a race - with yourself.
Competition on busy, main roads, is not wise in my mind.
I imagine if someone made a "Strava for cars" there would be uproar in the public and pulled almost instantly.
I would just like to provide some clarification on the Police use of bus lanes. The attitude of all involved is another matter that i'll keep to myself.
The question as to whether police vehicles can legitimately use bus lanes when not responding to emergencies is not straight forward. It will depend entirely on the wording of the Traffic Management Order (TMO) for that local authority. Most will contain exemptions for all sorts of vehicles, which would be far too much information to put on a sign. Most (and indeed Edinburgh's) will include wording such as "public service vehicle providing a local service", "vehicles being used for a legitimate policing purpose" or "a vehicle being used by a universal service provider". Some of these are a bit ambiguous and would require case law to establish if police vehicles are exempt. But on the surface it would appear they are.
It would not be true that a police vehicle would have to have lights and sirens going to be legitimately using the lane. Some may disagree but I would also pose the question, that by preventing them using the lane you would in fact be reducing the service they are able to offer?
Hope that helps?
I have learnt two new words from this thread. Amelioration and opprobrium. Thanks!
I thought the Policemen in that video were remarkably restrained!
Whatever you think of their driving, the rule of law is there to be respected - and when people undermine individual officers by tapping on their window to give them a telling off, they undermine the whole system. It's not like those coppers were being difficult or set out to have an argument - the rider just antagonised them unnecessarily so I think he got off lightly.
Next time, maybe quietly take the number plate of the police car and report it via letter / email? Bound to be more effective and won't make the rider look like angry fool.
Haha, just down the road from castle Rags....
the rule of law is there to be respected
I would expect the officers to be upholding it and enforcing it on the drivers in the bus lane not making up a spurious charge in order to get his details- you really think he was guilty of an offence and there were no cars in the bus lane?
he was an ass hat I am not defending that but the copper did not cover himself in glory either with his trumped up charge/reason
the rule of law is there to be respected
Utter rubbish. Obeyed maybe, or more specifically 'seen to be obeyed' but respected? No.
I thought the Policemen in that video were remarkably restrained!
Pah! Restrained would have been to stay in the car.
It's also funny how language ok for Mumsnet is not acceptable to the police. They need to grow up and start addressing real issues.
Haha. Next time a cop asks you to watch your language ask him which words aren't acceptable. Just so you Don't accidentally use them.
All it takes for us is to continue to ignore stuff like this and it will continue.
This.
It should not be acceptable. The Police should be setting an example - they repeatedly claim they don't have the resources (or will) to enforce traffic laws to any reasonable degree so the very least they can do is set an example.
It's not the cyclist's job to tell other people that they're driving in the wrong lane.
And presumably by that logic that they're doing anything else that's dangerous. I been told to '**** off, it's none of your business' when I've politely asked people not to use their phones while they're driving.
The reason Drink Driving has dropped so far is because it became socially unacceptable. That absolutely involved other people telling drunks in the pub that they were not going to put other peoples lives at risk by driving home.
The same needs to become true of speeding, phone use, etc etc etc
I imagine if someone made a "Strava for cars" there would be uproar in the public and pulled almost instantly.
my half mile car strava segment average speed would be 120mph+
my half mile bike strava segment average speed would be around 28mph
I think there's a reason why there would be uproar for one of those
Whilst admittedly it involves a motor cycle rather than pedal cycle it is worth watching all 14 minutes of it as a frame of reference , how thing's can escalate out of control.
There is a mild form of reconciliation at around 9- 10 minutes where both partie's seem to calm down and common sense prevails.
I'm with the cyclist, police on the whole are all hypocrites and hate it when they are in the wrong and public pull them up on it.
Misinformer,that vid just goes to show you have no way of knowing how things are going to turn out.
It's also funny how language ok for Mumsnet is not acceptable to the police.
its not acceptable on here either, and indeed most places, hence why you had to pick mumsnet.
I chose mumsnet as it was a recent example. And it's funny.
Our society is becoming more sophisticated and less worried by words - sticks and stones and all.
It's sad the police use language as another tool for control.
There was a case a couple years ago where a Court of Appeal overturned a conviction for someone swearing at the police. Think the reasoning was that being police meant that they would be exposed to swearing on a regular basis and could not possibly be distressed by it.
I remember the chief copper at the time didn't like the courts decision and decided they could still arrest people for swearing at them albeit under a different charge.
it is worth watching all 14 minutes
😆
Good result. We're worrying about trivia rather than the things that matter.
Meanwhile in Sri Lanka....