Bikes with odd headsets, or unique hub spacing, an individual thread on a through axle or only being able to run an exclusive crank.
How do you feel about these things and would they put you off a bike? Especially if you're the sort to go big on the purchase with a view to keeping the bike for the long haul?
Yes
Yes.
How do you feel about these things and would they put you off a bike? Especially if you’re the sort to go big on the purchase with a view to keeping the bike for the long haul?
yes.
And I'm the opposite, a constant piecemeal upgrader, including the frame. I'm dreading the switch to 29er (probably my next move) as I'll need frame, forks and wheels rebuilt on new rims.
Nope, never had a problem getting hold of spares for unique parts eg Cannondale Headshock, Specialized headsets, Scott frames etc.
Yes, it'd put me off.
I've leared to accept that mech hangers will always been frame specific, anything more than that doesn't sit well.
Yep. It can be a pain if you an owner of an older model. Used parts are very limited. No third part suppliers. You can usually get the part but who wants to pay full retail from a single supplier? Had with an old Specialized with a weird shock size. We've got enough standards already without manufacturers making up new ones for no good reason
mech hangers will always been frame specific
Hopefully the Sram universal mech hanger end that, too
Yes, it's really annoying. I used to buy parts and build up bikes exactly how I like them. I had a nice 26" QR wheelset that saw loads of different bikes. Now it's pointless buying nice components because you can't be sure they'll be usable on your next bike. I'd have bought a nice (Chris King?) wheelset by now. Except that I don't know whether my next bike will have Boost, Superboost, 27.5, 29 inch wheels etc.
I also remember a time when you could go into a bike shop for a tyre. Nowadays each tyre (E.g. a tread pattern like Maxxis Minion) has about 30 SKUs across different wheel sizes, widths, casing etc and they're basically impossible to buy the one you want except from some internet megashop with a warehouse.
I guess some people are making money out of all of this, but it's really putting me off those incremental upgrades.
mech hangers you can get and even carry a spare. small light and cheap and also do not wear out
I keep bikes for a long time thus i want / need as good spares availability as possible
I remember getting caught out with 1.25" quill stems, 1.5" front mechs and 31.8mm seat posts in the 90s.
There's a bike that's taken my fancy but my head is saying "no" due to proprietary parts.
- Why do it then? Stick with what you have until it is completely done and dust(ed).I’m dreading the switch to 29er (probably my next move)
29er isn't for me so I'm happy not to have to go through that process - I'm sure it will happen at some point when everything has gone, but until then, I'll not worry about it.
Unique 'standards' do concern me, but fortunately I've been very boring with my purchases and stuck with mainstream stuff (mainly) so not had a concern other than the general cost of replacing like for like (always seems a great price when buying the complete bike, then you get the surprise when it comes to replacing worn parts...).
Something like Trek's knock-block then no, it's not going to wear out so it's a non-issue. Some weird hub or BB - definitely.
If it's a volume part then other manufacturers will also make their own versions and we all know that ensures both availability and reasonable pricing. Proprietary parts tend to create a monopoly for that part and that generally means it ends up being expensive.
Yes.
Although I'm at the stage now where I need an entire new fleet of bikes because virtually nothing on my bikes is compatible with what is now easily available on the market, it would all be hard-to-source NOS or S/H stuff.
The one exception is the SS road bike which will probably never be completely out of date, there's still SS/track hubs, basic headsets etc that are easy(ish) to get.
Yes*
.
.
.
.
.
*not enough though. We have owned two Headshock Cannondale's and currently a Giant with Overdrive 2 Headset (less of an issue).
Many years ago, I turned down a lovely Klein Adroit, because it had a massive proprietary headset system, rather than the then ubiquitous 1.125". Looking back, it may just have been some fairly standard bearings, of a particular size; all the different brands used slightly different bearings anyway, so it wouldn't necessarily have been much different to sourcing those. But it was just the proprietary nature, that put me off. But then, I've owned a Headshock Cannondale, and I think the older ones had a slightly different size to later models. But from what I've seen, the age of standardisation on bicycles is well over. I don't think manufacturers really want you to keep a bike beyond a few years, they want you to buy a new one. So why use standard fittings?
They absolutely put me off!
My Trek Fuel EX is basically useless now as the shock has worn internally and the parts are no longer available. As it's a DRCV one it's got an odd mounting, length and stroke so putting a new shock on it is tough without compromising the travel, basically makes the frame worthless. It's still running at the moment but it's only a matter of time before the shock dies. The replacement bike is on order and has no proprietary parts apart from the mech hanger.
100% yes...
– Why do it then? Stick with what you have until it is completely done and dust(ed).
Problem being those 3 things (frame, fork and wheels) are unlikely to be done and dusted simultaneously.
I'm far from ready to move on from my current bike (new rims, and new internals for the fork in the last 12 months) but of the bikes currently on the market, only a mid travel 29er would be both useful to me for my usage case, and a noticable upgrade on what I'm riding now.
Of course I say that now, then I'll start looking at some blingy carbon 650b frames that can fit my current parts....
I wasn't going to buy a new Specialized if they stuck with weird hub spacing and press-fit BB. IIRC some Trek road bikes have gone back to old established standards.
100% put off, even stuff like boost can get in the sea as far as I'm concerned. As much as I like Shimano stuff there was no reason at all for them to have another new crank/spider BCD for GRX, the existing 4x104 or their newer 4x96 would have been absolutely fine.
Yes.
*I now check for spares availability/dealers who specialise/serviceability before I buy and my existing bits pile would likely dictate some buying criteria, eg. Boost wheels etc.
Yes, to a degree (and I'm discounting derailleur hangers here).
One of the big selling points when I bought my Aeris was that everything was fairly standard lengths, sizes and fittings as far as BB, frame bearings, shock length, etc.
The OH has a Turbo Levo FSR with the proprietary shock mount, but I knew of BikeYoke before we bought it so wasn't worried about that. Also knew that there was potentially parts available for the motor as its essentially a standard Brose as well.
Absolutely. I can put parts from one bike on another, if I break a part on holiday I can usually just walk into a shop and get another- have a choice in fact. Standards are fantastic.
Sometimes there's good reason to use a weird part- something you really can't do with normal ones. But it has to be a really good reason. Like fatbikes, or Trek's weird rear shocks, I can approve of that because sometimes they manage to make a really amazing working frame. But shit like Hope's randomly different rear hub, or on the other hand Superboost? **** off.
Boost itself is just total bullshit of course, but sometimes the bullshit wins and you've not got much choice.
Nope. Can see the issue if you’re a serial part swapper or buy second hand but for buying new it’s not an issue for me.
Had a cannondale head shock and a couple of lefty forks and never struggled to get parts. Same with a couple of Canyons and their weird headsets.
Would love to see what bike designers and engineers could do if they didn’t have the shackles of enforced backwards compatibility to deal with.
Yes.
If it's not interchangeable with my other bikes then it's a probably a no, a unique part is a definite no
No, not if they're justified. Also depends on the likely lifespan of the part and what it has to be compatible with.
Would love to see what bike designers and engineers could do if they didn’t have the shackles of enforced backwards compatibility to deal with.
The trouble is they don't then make a massive leap forward, they make the hub 3mm wider or change the spanner you need to undo a BB or just make it work the same but not fit the old parts
to a certain extent, yes.
I haven't really come across too many proprietary parts on the bikes i end up looking at or buying.
but i wont buy a pivot, down to the fact they use Superboost rear ends. Whilst there are plenty of superboost hubs/wheels out there, i dont want to limited or tied in to something a little big niche.
yes,
shocks wheels especially.
bearings and such less so.
Depends on which bike it is.
From a specialized or Trek? no not really, they'd most likely see you right. from one of the smaller brands, I'd have to be convinced I think.
Yes, completely.
Even though I rarely keep a bike more than 3 years and sell to upgrade, I don't recall any proprietary system or part not being a pain in the arse a handful of years down the road when, inevitably, the Manufacturer decides the rest of the world was right all along and stops supporting it and I at least like to think I could keep riding it forever, if I wanted to.
'Standards' a dirty word of course, are different, but even then, I won't be an early adopter, for every 27.5" wheel there's a 1.5" straight steerer, for every Metric Shock there's a 'Plus' tyre etc. Times change, SRAM especially seems to get buy-in (or force-in) from at least some frame manufacturers before they wheel out a new standard so they tend to stick and some things are easy to change. I couldn't hand on heart guarantee my 35mm bar / stem combo won't end up in an MTB cul de sac in a few years, but it would be no biggie, I'd just moan and buy a bar and stem if I needed new bars, but if my DUB BB ends up on the scrap pile, I'm in trouble.
reluctantjumper
Full MemberThey absolutely put me off!
My Trek Fuel EX is basically useless now as the shock has worn internally and the parts are no longer available. As it’s a DRCV one it’s got an odd mounting, length and stroke so putting a new shock on it is tough without compromising the travel, basically makes the frame worthless. It’s still running at the moment but it’s only a matter of time before the shock dies. The replacement bike is on order and has no proprietary parts apart from the mech hanger.
Took 11 years but I was finally proved right 😎
https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/trek-2011-part-one-fuel-ex/
Depends. I have an HB.160 with proprietary rear brake (radial mount), rear hub (130x17mm), headset (cups bonded in but used standard Hope bearings), BB (but standard Hope bearings).
It's also Boost front hub (but can use non-Boost with convertors), non-metric shock, XD driver (but can use any Pro4 freehub), non-front mech (meh), 27.5" etc.
I've no doubt all the Hope stuff will be supported for years. It'll probably be the shock that's a problem in years to come, although currently on a DVO Jade which it relatively easy to service.
Yep. I’m not a serial bike swapper like some people. And having seen people have holidays ruined (or cost loads more) because some proprietary or insure part gets broken in the alps has put me off anything like that.
I need to be able to bodge fix a suspension pivot bolt or axle using something from the local hardware shop or just replace the part with some easy to find in a bike shop/Intersport etc so as not to ruin my riding time.
No
But then I ride mostly fatbikes (and a boost 29 plus and a roadbike) so it comes with the territory.
What I have found is that even with the increasing technical nature of bikes, there's not much that can't be adapted if necessary. Take 132mm wide press fit bottom bracket shells for example - forget Surly proprietary cranks and weird bcd and Q factor, use cheap shimano pressfit BB, standard(ish) raceface fatbike chainset and machine some spacers.
But then I enjoy doing my own bodging, even if it sometimes takes a couple of goes
So, if you were looking at a bike and then learned that it wouldn't take a shimano chainset, only their own crank with a SRAM 8 bolt ring (who even knew that was a thing) then the wise move is probably to keep looking?
Yes. Especially odd hub standards, wheel offsets and shocks mounts. Had a few bikes now where the only way to get the suspension working how I wanted would be to upgrade the shock. Bit of a problem if that's not possible.
One frame I built up had a particular press fit bb size which (at the time) was only compatible with Sram bb and cranks. No mention of it being a Sram only standard in the specs. Thought it would be okay until I came to put it together. On paper others should have fitted fine, but no. Quite tedious as I had already bought cranks/BB and Sram didn't do the crank length I wanted.
ReluctantJumper - Can you not fit pretty much any Trunnion shock to your Trek now that they’re more common? I know someone did that with their Remedy and said it was much better (I think, not 100% sure on all the details).
There was an article on NSMB about upgrading your current bike instead of forking out £££££ on a new one in the current climate.
Your new bike is your current bike
Yes, I was all set to buy a Trek Roscoe a couple of years ago but the weird QR141 rear axle put me off.
I also owned a Cannondale Trigger (as I suspect half the forum did when Paul’s Cycles was selling them off cheap) with the weird Fox Dyad pull shock. I got rid when I was quoted something like £350 for a shock service because some service parts weren’t available so they’d need to replace half of it as part of the process. Not doing that again.
There's not really been that many totally proprietary bits on bikes TBH, there's been a couple of odd headset options, the occasional weird seat post size a couple of strange caliper mounting ideas, but for the most part bikes are really just a collection of standardized interfaces. It's actually quite good really... So yeah any deviation from standard parts wouldn't attract me as a buyer...
The bigger issue is still the arbitrary changes to those standards every so often to use a bit of planned obscelece to stimulate sales, which of course works, but even then it's far from impossible to keep "ancient" bikes rolling...
No, same as it doesn’t bother me with any other product.
Isn't QR141 just a boots hib with QR end caps on it?
The Cannondale pull shock definitely though, literally nothing else you could fit and so unreliable too.
Giant Overdrive was a special sort of annoying, absolutely no reason for it.
Hope HB bikes with a hub and brake standard that no other company makes was a big no for me. Not being able to fit a different brake or wheel? No thanks.
Yes.
I'm just not prepared to spend a month's pay on something I'll struggle to keep running.
I think the OP is thinking of buying a stolen Boris bike from a dodgy geezer.
Doesn't generally bother me when I'm looking. Might depend on the brand though.
Wierd Hope rear hub, not a problem, it's hope, why would I want to change it?
Cannondale cranks, they'll probably last the life of the bike anyway.
Forks/headsets, are there any trully propriatory ones? Cannondale are IIRC, but the hesdtube itself isn't.
TBH the more I ride the less I'm fussed about upgradeability. Back in ~2000 you could make a bike better with decent forks, disk brakes, riser bars. These days while a £5k superbike might be better than the £2000 GX model. The incremental benefit of a £800 Fork or £300 brakeset over a 35 or deore 4 pots is so minimal that does it really matter if they suddenly made them propriatory?
Shocks would worry me. Mtb'ing archives are littered with proprietary shocks that never worked out.
Didn’t Hope change the rear end of their bikes because someone had a problem while abroad and couldn’t just bodge/ temporarily replace something mid-trip which meant the bike was out of action (even thought Hope preferred their own way of doing it)?
I seem to remember reading that somewhere in a press release last year.
You know Hope will be supporting their kit for way longer than the life of the bike, but it doesn’t help you out when you’ve broken it and want to ride tomorrow.
Another who says 'yes'.
Picture this... you have a new Canyon road bike at between 5 and 10 grand. 4 months old.
You've now been told not to ride it until July or later as the unique handlebars can and do break. And fheckall you can do to be riding as there is no standard alternative to fit.
Then the same bike has a unique seat post that's shiiite and the maker doesn't even have a fix for that yet. And again you can't just put a standard one in.
I got a new road bike 15 months ago. A Specialized Tarmac. One of the reasons was it had ZERO unique components. Standard stem. Standard bars. Standard round seat post. And... a THREADED bottom bracket too !! Thank **** for that. No stooopid creaking press fit either.
I was put off a Trek Emonda by the dumb-ass seat post that slides over the seat post rather than inside it. Because you just KNOW you'll not get a new one when the monkey metal clamp fails in 3 years.
Try getting some of the TT bike integrated stems at present. No chance.
Yep I can't even stand own brand parts = especially on expensive bikes. There's no excuse for not putting quality branded finishing kit on big budget bikes. I'm looking at you Trek and Specialized.
Proprietary parts definitely put me off, but I own a cannondale and a Look road bike. So apparently I can look past the issue. I have to say some of the Proprietary stuff on my Look seems like genius, others is just mental.
Yup, have no time for that nonsense. I tried to find the front mech mount for my Pitch (yes, ten years later) but not a damn thing. Doesn't bother me now but was annoying at the time. I like being able to switch stuff between bikes.
zerocool
Full MemberDidn’t Hope change the rear end of their bikes because someone had a problem while abroad and couldn’t just bodge/ temporarily replace something mid-trip which meant the bike was out of action (even thought Hope preferred their own way of doing it)?
I seem to remember reading that somewhere in a press release last year.
You know Hope will be supporting their kit for way longer than the life of the bike, but it doesn’t help you out when you’ve broken it and want to ride tomorrow.
The new ones are standard boost. And yep, basically when they announced the bikes, everyone in the world said "why is the hub a weird size? Why is the brake mount weird?" and they said "we know best", and then Reasons occurred and it turned out they didn't know best and changed all the designs for the later bikes.
I think the arithmetic for "how much is it worth to us, to tie our customers to our products" and "how much do we actually believe this is better" vs "how much does it cost us to have people put off buying the bike in the first place" and "how much do customers believe it is better or worse" is probably pretty complicated.
30.0mm seat clamp, as on ON-One. What a pain in the proverbial, i mean 31.8 you can get anywhere, but a 30 needs ordered in.
Maybe ok today, but on places like Retrobike, these odd sized bits are a complete nightmare to find.
Probably not but only if the design and engineering of the frame/bike gave tangible benefits. Unfortunately my last bike had absolute shite engineering and worse performance and was that disappointing I 'retired' from riding bikes.
Absolute POS Cannondale Jekyll 27.5"
I think the arithmetic for “how much is it worth to us, to tie our customers to our products” and “how much do we actually believe this is better” vs “how much does it cost us to have people put off buying the bike in the first place” and “how much do customers believe it is better or worse” is probably pretty complicated
That's a long-winded way of saying "I think it's complicated".
Absolutely 100% wouldn't buy or even have given (well I'd have given but resell immediately).
Its a liability .. as other have said walking into a shop on holiday, spares availability... being able to take a part off one bike and stick it on another.
Especially if you’re the sort to go big on the purchase with a view to keeping the bike for the long haul?
Both VERY VERY subjective...
My youngest bikes are 2015 ... my oldest ... 2002-2003 but that's a hack commuter?
Now I think I have 5x 2015 bikes... one is a HT.
All run 11sp and drive chains and 27.5 non boost wheels and are interchangable....
All 4x FS have the same shock dimensions
All brakes are interchangable (although mix of 4 pot and 2 pot then CAN be used)
Forks are nearly interchangable ... in that I could technically fit some fox 32's to the Enduro but it would be daft... and would also require a shim for the OD2.
Then I have a 2012 bike that is to all intents and purposes junk. No way to economically replace the straight steerer 26" forks with 20mm thru axle... 27.2 seatpost...
Then I have a couple of "updated 25 yr old designs"
I missed out on buying a 29er Jack flash because it was on sale but the mech hangar wasn't listed on Planet X and you'd have to be either stupid or treat bikes as disposable to buy a bike without a replacement mech hangar.
I took a punt on the 26 frame at £100 as Planet X refused to release specs for headsets and BB but then that depends if you call £100 "go big". As it turns out the BB and headset were standard so I can't understand the logic of planet X refusing to disclose these but I bought it having decided if anything was non standard I'd just bin the frame or try and resell on ebay???
I've also got a 25yr old design updated DMR Trailstar which I bought BECAUSE of the standards.
Same drivechain, interchangable brakes, wheels, forks ... available dropouts... (swapouts)
and they said “we know best”, and then Reasons occurred
LOL ...
The new ones are standard boost.
Their marketing on HB's sucks then...
I was interested, more interested when they dropped the price ... but I didn't see a marketing of "REASONS" ... I wasn't looking as I'd been turned off already as I suppose most potential buyers had been.
TBF to Hope, they did know best in the case of the radial brake mount - it's way better than IS or PM, and literally needs 2x 10mm spacers to go from 180mm to 200mm rotor. And the 130x17mm rear hub does the same as boost, but with a narrower width. There's no axle on the hub - the bearings run on the frame axle.
The Mk1 HB.130 had this setup for the axle but PM for the brake as they also sold a frame kit. the Mk2 saw the intro of Boost with PM as that's what people wanted, not necessarily what was best.
Hasn't every single FS frame that has ever been (to a greater or lesser extent) got proprietary bits? Especially if it's say; linkage driven?
I swap bikes a fair bit so not a deal breaker but I would give it extra thought, sometimes avoid for a couple of years to see how it pans out.
I guess some of those original quirky parts are now the norm🚵
Didn’t Hope change the rear end of their bikes because someone had a problem while abroad and couldn’t just bodge/ temporarily replace something mid-trip
Don't the Hope cranks require some special tools to remove/fit that would be just as much of a problem? The radial brake mount and wide spaced (but narrow) rear hub for better heel and rock clearance both made a lot of sense. And Hope have a good history of supporting their stuff long term.
The stuff I'd not touch is 'special' rear shocks on a sus bike. Specialized, Cannondale, Scott are all guilty. I've had enough internal parts and shafts on shocks replaced over the years that I'd not touch those.
Giant's stuff is just annoying - I didn't realise the steerer on my road bike was oversize until I tried swapping the stem. It also has a 'D-fuse' flat backed seat post.
Most of the 'evolved' standards on mtb's are just annoying. I tried to keep stuff common across all our bikes a few years back - could grab a wheel from another bike if a spoke broke, or ever for different tyres. fewer spares to carry on long rides etc etc. Every bike currently needs different brake pads. 3 different mtb stem/bar standards (still have some old 28.2 bars on K's oldest hardtail) - was there *really* a need for 35mm?.
The one that made my jaw drop the other day was 12x100mm bolt through front hubs for gravel bikes. WTF did they not use existing 15x100mm? The argument for making stuff bigger (35mm bars) is that stuff can be made stronger for the same weight.
zerocool
Didn’t Hope change the rear end of their bikes because someone had a problem while abroad and couldn’t just bodge/ temporarily replace something mid-trip which meant the bike was out of action (even thought Hope preferred their own way of doing it)?
That was my main issue - if I break a wheel or a brake, I just grab one off another bike/borrow from a friend/buy in a shop and I'm good again. Not happening with a Hope - their support is great, to be fair, but it's still a special order from them if anythign goes wrong, and you're locked into their brakes and hubs.
b33k34
Don’t the Hope cranks require some special tools to remove/fit that would be just as much of a problem?
The original ones did, but all the tools were supplied in the box. Still a fiddly PITA to fit or remove. Current cranks only need a big allen key.
Giant’s stuff is just annoying – I didn’t realise the steerer on my road bike was oversize until I tried swapping the stem. It also has a ‘D-fuse’ flat backed seat post.
My stem is OD2 but the steerer is standard 1.5-1.125 and there is a shim type spacer and oversized stem spacers
The one that made my jaw drop the other day was 12x100mm bolt through front hubs for gravel bikes. WTF did they not use existing 15x100mm?
12x100 is a road standard, 15x100 would be a bit chunky for roadies - there are 15mm gravel forks out there too.
Hmm, bit confusing this thread.
nickc
Full Member
Hasn’t every single FS frame that has ever been (to a greater or lesser extent) got proprietary bits? Especially if it’s say; linkage driven?Posted 24 minutes ago
Exactly, linkages for a full sus bike, how many linkages are common across a range (let alone different brands) for full sus bikes? that's what i would call proprietary. Most (and i do caveat that with 'most'!) shocks are different standards but not proprietary, the mounting hardware on the other hand...
Same with wheels, forks, cranks: there aren't many that are proprietary to a bike/manufacturer, but they may not be the 'standard' that you already have on another bike.
Time moves on, 26" forks aren't made any more as there isn't a market for them (as to why - different thread). Obsolescence of a once new standard is part of the development at the bleeding edge of selling new bikes, but there are normally quite a few manufacturers making components that fit.
In answer to the op, nope it doesn't put me off, but I DO look closely at warranty coverage these days if i'm buying new frames to cover any potential risk.
Tbh,does but I think you’ve got to unfortunately treat a bike as a consumer durable, sometimes the new features that come along later are actually worth having.
(Er but freecycle or recycle)
Ride and wear it out, rinse and repeat.
It’s the riding that counts,smiles per miles 😉
That was my main issue – if I break a wheel or a brake, I just grab one off another bike
The times I’ve sat at home with a pile of broken bikes where I’ve robbed Peter to ride Paul then Paul breaks 🙂
With the Hope radial caliper, yes, you're locked in, but Hope calipers rarely go wrong and when they do they can be serviced. And all of the parts bar the actual caliper body can be scavenged from another E4 brake.
It's more things like proprietary shock sizes or shocks, and even linkages and bolt kits for rear sus parts, or even Rock Shok forks and shocks where only sub-assemblies can be bought (if at all). Remember the Charger 1 seal head - that was in the service kit. People have been complaining that no such things exist for the newer Chargers.
Most (and i do caveat that with ‘most’!) shocks are different standards but not proprietary, the mounting hardware on the other hand…
Mounting hardware isn't hard though. TFT machine custom sizes every wednesday (I think it is)... and if you need a 22x8 but put in a 21.8x8 it's still working or the other way you can buy a 22mm and sand off .2mm
Hope is a bit of an outlier.
You buy the bike because you are a hope fan - and therefore you specifically want hope hubs and brakes.
Well, yeah. Not going to deny that.
You could go SHope. Saint master cylinders (or XRT Race if you don't want ServoWave), E4 calipers and use the Shimano seals from the RX4 (though you'd need 4 kits).
100% put me off, have made that mistake already.
One of my old road bikes (no longer ridden outside, permanently attached to the turbo trainer) has a headset that is not only unique to the brand, but unique to that model. 1990s Vitus 992
It's something I'll consider and factor in for the potential hassle of replacement. For me not necessarily a complete turn off depending on the part & if there is potential for replacement by other brands.
I bought a brand new 2007 Spesh Enduro SL Pro when they came out that had the Futureshock E150 forks & Spesh rear shock. After about a year I sold the Spesh forks & rear shock & simply replaced with Lyrik U-Turn forks and a Fox RP23 rear shock, much better.
Likewise I had a brand new 2008 Stumpjumper FSR Pro that had the Spesh Brain rear shock. It failed twice under warranty so in the end sold the repaired shock & replaced with a Fox RP23, like the Enduro SL it improved the bike (I replaced the Spesh rear shock as much because I didnt really like the Brain as opposed to it's rebound valving circuit blowing up!).
Depends what it is. I have a hankering for an old school linkage fork (amp, lawill etc) and a Super V with Headshox.
I'd avoid a Scott with a proprietary shock though 😉
Years ago Brant designed a singlespeed inbred with unique chain tugs that bent under power. Couldn't get new ones even shortly after. Annoying.