[Closed] Please explain tubeless.

1) I currently ride with 32PSI in the front but have heard so many saying they run tubeless at mid 20'sPSI. How on earth can this be? Wouldn't the tyre just collapse? (I weigh 12 stone).

No, I've run 10-15 psi, and you just get insane amounts of grip.

2) What tyres to use? - I love what I have now but there's so many options and I've heard of lots of different tyres being bitches to put on...

🙄

3) I've seen the Stan's puncture video - where he rides across hundreds of nails - good stuff. Then again, I've heard horror stories on STW.

That's not a question.

4) Weight saving? no tubes but liquid instead, does it really save weight?

Yes/no/maybe/depends/probably.

The main benefits are that you will hardly ever get a puncture, and that you can run pretty much whatever pressure you like. They're also meant to roll better and be slightly lighter, but that all depends on what you're comparing. I went tubeless yonks ago, and I'd never go back.

@realman: reference question 2, don't pull that face - what I mean is can I trust the HR tubless to run fine for instance, Stan's dont recommend lots of different types of tyres.

Reference question 3, you're indeed correct. Let me ask, are tubeless as puncture proof as I'm lead to believe?

The main benefits are that you will hardly ever get a puncture, and that you can run pretty much whatever pressure you like.

Please explain how, I just can't understand how the wall doesn't collapse and the tyre roll over.

1. At 32psi you have a static contact patch of ~3 sq.in per tyre. At 25psi you have a static contact patch of ~4 sq.in. per tyre. At your weight I'd start at 23F 26R and tweak up or down from there - you may end up back at 32 but I doubt it.

2. Try your current ones - they may work fine. Bontrager TLR and Specialized 2bliss seem to work really well with Stans rims - straight up with a track pump after a night with a tube in.

3. Honestly, it works better than tubes for most riders - but some tyre/rim pairings don't!

4. There probably is but that's not why I do it, as the size of my tyres suggests...

I am / was a big fan - but there is downside. Anyway - I might get flamed for this - but ime:

1&2: You're in luck with the HRs on Arch EX's (assuming wire beads?)- near perfect tubeless at around 30psi. If you go lower than that you risk "burping" the tyre off the rim (tbf the HR is far less likely to do this than a Schwalbe ime).

3: That's bollox tbh. Stans does fix punctures - lots of them that I never knew I had (thorns typically). Stans will fix bigger puctures (you'll hear the hiss hiss as the wheel rotates then it seals up, only to start pissing fluid again 5 mins later). So basically the video is in ideal circumstances - not continuing riding. But for small / tiny holes it does actually really work.

4: Maybe a bit. Not a lot.

You've missed 5: Does it "feel" different - yes ime- seems like less rolling resistance.

Anyway the downside - Arch Ex's with yellow tape and all done proper can and does "fail" and dump your ass on the trail and gets you hurt.

So for me now - I'm running a mix - any tyre thats in any way loose fitting on stans rims - I put a tube in. If the tyres proper snug - then thats a good tubeless option.

My experience so far has been...

Maxxis LUST are heavy & expensive but easy to fit and suck up thorns like nobody's business. Have decided to stick with HRs after trying:

Rocket Rons which were horrible to fit and deflated slowly at random moments.

Tubeless rims not necessarily required.

Low pressures not a great thing if you ride rocky/droppy things 🙂

OP I can't explain the science cos I can't be bothered to.think it through.

But i have been running between.25 and 35 psi in tubeless for years and i.make you look.anorexic.

If you can get the hang of seating them then you won't want to run tubes again.

I got a set of Arch Ex rims back at the end of January and went tubeless with them using my Nobby Nics TR. I was like you with the pressure and started off running them at 30+ but I since started dropping it and now run at mid 20s with no problems and I'm a similar weight to you. I also haven't had a single puncture this year and I'm out on my bike a fair bit.. I might have just been lucky though and wouldn't have had one if I'd been running with tubes anyway!

I say go for it, it did work out a little bit less weight for me and the bike does feel a lot better to ride!

1) I have 30-35psi - try it, use what suits you. I've tried softer but don't like the squirming under hard cornering

2) Maxxis or Hutchinson UST are my faves. Toros are brilliant , but damn expensive.

3) Not had a puncture for aout 2 years

4) Don't care.

No punctures is reason enough for me.

And look at stans website for tyre guidance there is loads on thete.

I have mavic ust rims at the moment with nobby nic evo up front and a tired conti.out back. Both are fine for seating.

Please explain how, I just can't understand how the wall doesn't collapse and the tyre roll over.

If someone who had run 50psi all their life came over to you and asked you that question with regards to 32psi.. Not exactly sure what you expect here.

Reference question 3, you're indeed correct. Let me ask, are tubeless as puncture proof as I'm lead to believe?

3 years riding, something like 2 times where I've lost pressure and had to put a tube in? Maybe not even that, maybe it was just the once. Most of the time it either seals without you knowing (take off your tyre occasionally, and there will be loads of holes/thorns/etc.), or there's a load of hissing, you stop, let the wheel rotate so the hole is at the bottom (so all the sealant is there), it seals, you keep riding (or you might want to pump it up a little, dependent).

reference question 2, don't pull that face - what I mean is can I trust the HR tubless to run fine for instance, Stan's dont recommend lots of different types of tyres.

Ah ok, sorry, I thought you were just asking a general "what tyres for my bike" question. You can pretty much run anything, you will have more success with some then others. I usually run tubeless tyres.

You've already got the wheels, all you need is some valves and some sealant, you could even get some 2nd hand tubeless tyres off here, then flog it all if you don't like it. Nothing to lose.

Thanks so much for all of the comments, my whistle is now wet. oo er...

couldashouldawoulda - Member
I am / was a big fan - but there is downside. Anyway - I might get flamed for this - but ime:

1&2: You're in luck with the HRs on Arch EX's (assuming wire beads?)- near perfect tubeless at around 30psi. If you go lower than that you risk "burping" the tyre off the rim (tbf the HR is far less likely to do this than a Schwalbe ime).

This is right, wire bead. So I only have to buy new valves and some fluid now - away I go, right? 😉

This is right, wire bead. So I only have to buy new valves and some fluid now - away I go, right?

Honestly - of all the tubeless combo's I've had a wire HR on a stans rim has not ever caused one single issue.

The only other thing to check is that the yellow tape is intact on the rim. You've been running a tube in there which is probably good to press the tape home.

Otherwise - yep - that's your shopping list! Good to go.

If someone who had run 50psi all their life came over to you and asked you that question with regards to 32psi.. Not exactly sure what you expect here.

The minimum pressure you can use depends on your weight, tyres, rims and most importantly riding style. I've read of Brian Lopes using tubeless for trail riding but deliberately having to ride lighter because otherwise he'll burp the tyres - however few amateur riders of his weight could put that much force through the tyres (when not crashing!)

Different tyres behave differently. Don't fat bikes run like 8psi or something?

Don't fat bikes run like 8psi or something?

Dunno - but my father in laws tractor tyres are about 5psi. And it takes about 15 mins for a big compressor to pump them up.

I think the larger the tyre the lower the pressure required to make them similarly as hard as a smaller tyre. My school physics is failing me I'm afraid!

I think it depends on the stiffness of the sidewall as well. My car runs tubeless at about 30psi and I'm pretty sure I put more cornering loads on them than I do my bike. The bead/rim design is pretty similar and they don't roll and squirm, because the sidewalls are so much heavier duty.

I've only ever dared to go a few psi lower (with schwalbes on stans) than my tubed pressures, before getting burping and squirming issues but the tyres when off the rim have paper thin sidewalls.

^^^^ Yes your physics is correct.

Superjep's run around 3-4psi when in full snow/glacier/rock crawling mode. And around 8-14psi when on tarmac'd roads.

Conversely, if you have a little trailer behind your car (tip runs etc) tyres on that will need at least 80psi in them, sometimes over a 100!

ahh, and that's how road bikes generally run 120psi? I think I've got it! Cheers all.

I converted to tubeless at Christmas using a Stans kit on my Mavic non UST rims.

Even putting the rubber rim strip with the integrated valve and using sealant saved weight.

Being a bit anal I was trying to knock some weight off my Five anyway so weighed the wheels before and after and saved over 100g on each wheel.

[url= http://velo-m.co.uk/components/mtbtyres/notubesstandardtubelesskit.html ]Stan's Kit[/url] just buy the kit you wont look back

I'm a big tubeless convert. I'd say...

Pressures: You can get away with running low pressures, it gives more grip but gives a horrible feeling in the corners as you feel the tyre deform. I also found that the tyres can occasionally burp on fast corners / badly aligned landings. I generally run around 30psi.

Tyres: I find LUST rip at where the sidewall attaches to the bead. Don't know why. I can get away with single ply minions for most of my stuff but when I'm riding fast with friends I need a dual ply or proper UST on the back. I use Maxxis always.

Punctures: Hardly any punctures. On tubes I find I get a few a week.

Weight: See tyres above but basically I don't find any weight saving.

I did this article for my site because lots of people were asking me about tubeless tyres when they were on holiday. It's got some of the tyres I've tried, how I inflate them how they lasted etc.

[url= http://www.basquemtb.com/going-tubeless-on-your-mountain-bike/ ]Tubeless Tyres Experiences[/url]

It's not about weight, it's about less flats from thorns and pinches, and better traction with lower tyre pressures. (I currently run about 20 front 25 rear).

I'm toying with the idea too - but someone I know says when he tried it he had to top up his tyre pressures every ride because they just didn't hold air that well. Has he just made a bad job of it, is that more common with ghetto or do all tubeless let themselves down a bit every few days?

I'd say he's made a bad job of it - even more porous tyres should seal up fully after a few rides. I have to pump my tubeless MTB tyres up less frequently than my tubed Brompton ones.

@robsoctane, I see your current front tyre is a super tacky one - if you do use all that grip when cornering I doubt you can go much lower on pressure without a larger volume and/or stiffer walled tyre. But even with the same pressure it'll feel grippier in the corners and faster in the straights.

@doug_basqueMTB.com: That's a good table to start with, thanks Doug.

http://www.basquemtb.com/going-tubeless-on-your-mountain-bike/

I'd like to stick with Maxxis because the HR sticky is my favourite tyre so far.

crftom - Member
Stan's Kit just buy the kit you wont look back

Thanks mate, ordered.

@robsoctane, I see your current front tyre is a super tacky one - if you do use all that grip when cornering I doubt you can go much lower on pressure without a larger volume and/or stiffer walled tyre. But even with the same pressure it'll feel grippier in the corners and faster in the straights.

Thanks again, I do tend to ride very hard and feel the grip all right. I'm going to experiment with pressures and see how it goes, can't have that squirmy feeling - I'd have a mild heart attack me thinks.

I have one more question for you all... Once the tyre is worn, are they easy enough to get off the rim, they're kind of glued on, right? I guess that trial is the only real way but I'm trying to pick up from others before I make too many mistakes. I'm worried that I'll be in the middle of no where and the tyre just goes burp, smash or similar.

crftom - Member
Stan's Kit just buy the kit you wont look back

Thanks mate, ordered.

You're the guy with arch rims already yellow taped right? I'd suggest sending that kit back/cancelling the order, and just buying the valves and sealant, unless you want rim strips you don't need and can't use.

You just need two of these

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/stans-no-tubes-universal-valve-stem-35mm/

and one of these

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/stans-no-tubes-473ml-tyre-sealant-1/

Although I'll admit, even for a pair, those valves are quite pricey, might find them cheaper somewhere else.

I have one more question for you all... Once the tyre is worn, are they easy enough to get off the rim, they're kind of glued on, right?

Wrong, it's just the same as taking a normal tyre that's being run with a tube off. The tyres I currently run will come off with one or two tyre levers and hardly any effort at all. But you do get people with poor technique who will tell you you need a crowbar.

I'm worried that I'll be in the middle of no where and the tyre just goes burp, smash or similar.

Carry a tube. If something goes wrong, unbead the tyre, check for thorns (like you always do), pour out the sealant if there's loads, take the valve off the rim, put the tube in, bead the tyre, pump up, away you go. It's actually quicker and easier then mending a normal puncture.

@Realman, I am that guy so thanks for the point out but I can use the spares if this bike goes well, I've got 2 others and one has Bonty Tubeless rims, so no issue.

Wish me the best of luck - PLEASE 😉

Any thoughts on my last question Realman? Or anyone else...

*EDIT* Thanks for the advice Realman.

Just so you are clear, that stans kit is for adapting normal (non tubeless) rims in order to run them tubeless. If you've already got tubeless rims, you don't need it.

And of course, good luck (not that you need it, it's proper simple like) 😀

[i]Once the tyre is worn, are they easy enough to get off the rim, they're kind of glued on, right?[/i]

Yeah, easy enough. Once the air is out the tyre bead can be popped off the rim no problem. With some tyres it's worth having steel core tyre levers cos they can be pretty tight on the rim. Lots of tips on here, if you search for getting them on & off.

Cheers: DezB - Guess my Park plastic ones are no use now, snap!