So on selling tickets and TV advertising (as that’s why the TV rights have value)?
Yes. That for entertainment purposes. If no-one was entertained by it then they would not tune in, or buy any tickets to go watch it. Its not rocket science.
If you're undecided or feeling slightly negative to this be sure to check out this vid
Pidcock did also win the U23 XC (normal pedaling) races in Nove Mesto last week.
That FIM E-XBike video is hilarious - they couldnt have done a better piss take if they'd tried.
Pidders is local to me and he took one of my longstanding KOMs earlier in the year. Now I know why! Mechanical doping ****!
Nothing to do with him being extremely rapid or anything.
Yes. That for entertainment purposes. If no-one was entertained by it then they would not tune in, or buy any tickets to go watch it. Its not rocket science.
Indeed, its not rocket science, you've got your cart before your horse.
You buy it for entertainment.
They sell it to you.
They sell it to make a profit.
They have no interest in why you buy it.
Im not talking about me. Im talking about Tom Pidcock. Would he ride that same course in the same time (or faster) on a regular bike?
I understand you don't mean you, you mean schurter or neff, or pidock or whomever hence the inverted commas. To answer your question no, no they couldn't compete against themselves. Any time that bike points flat or vaguely down hill the effort they've saved going up a climb can be used to pedal faster and harder, even if they could keep pace on the ups the motor allows them to be quicker on the downs and flats by virtue of effort saved. It also allows them to lug a 30lb [equivalent] bike which descends faster and easier (saving more energy and fatigue) to the top of the hill at the same speed as their XC bike.
lawman91
Full Member
Are the bikes de-restricted or do they run regular speed limiters? Because if they do have the limiter on still, they might as well just strap extra weight on their XC bikes. I’m not super fit (above average – can hold 200-250 watts pretty comfortably for extended periods) and when I’ve ridden e-bikes I’m constantly on the limiter when climbing. A beanpole like Piddock is just going to be riding a 25kg bike by the time he takes two pedal strokes. Completely pointless.
And yet the average speed for the race was approx 21kph. How do you explain that?
That FIM E-XBike video is hilarious – they couldnt have done a better piss take if they’d tried.
Full-face helmets and knee pads! So awesome 😆
Indeed, its not rocket science, you’ve got your cart before your horse.
You buy it for entertainment.
They sell it to you.
They sell it to make a profit.
They have no interest in why you buy it.
The point someone (it may have been you) made on pg1 id that pro sport only exists to sell you equipment. I am fully aware its a business, just not one based (originally at least) on selling you Stuff. Its purely selling you entertainment.
emtb world cups are not showing me anything I cant already see in a classic race so it must exist purely to promote e-bikes.
Sponsors instruct their athletes (who have trained hard to race actual bicycles) to participate in a sort of joke race using the mobility aids they’re flogging as “sporting equipment”. And of course the UCI awards a rainbow jersey adding a vague air of legitimacy to the whole thing.
If this is true the UCI bit is sad. Sure if everyone's in one place and the framework is in place to have a 'concept race' then go for it and be sure to give some nice prizes. But my firm impression with Rainbow Jerseys (specifically, rather than the title of WC itself) within sport is that they're sacred, due to the way they're worn throughout the year, and the colours displayed in subsequent years as ribbons. Such a race must massively devalue it.
If this is true the UCI bit is sad.
Have you seen the inflammatory language he's used?
mobility aids they’re flogging as “sporting equipment”
He's made all of it up.
(Speaking as someone who kinda likes the idea of ebikes but doesn't see the point of ebike racing).
The point someone (it may have been you) made on pg1 id that pro sport only exists to sell you equipment. I am fully aware its a business, just not one based (originally at least) on selling you Stuff. Its purely selling you entertainment.
This I think its the crux of where we're arguing then, and it's largely because we're on parallel tracks me thinks. I'd argue that there's no difference between "stuff" and "entertainment", both are just goods they're shifting.
emtb world cups are not showing me anything I cant already see in a classic race so it must exist purely to promote e-bikes.
I guess thats because you don't find it entertaining. Things don't have to be massively different [irrespective of whether this is or isn't] to be entertaining though, people watch the various races at a track meet for hours, the only difference from one race to the next is the competitors, they still find it entertaining. Same for football etc. One XC race is only very slightly different from another on the same course but people enjoy both and so on. It's the spectacle for most people and as long as its a spectacle then it remains entertaining.
I guess thats because you don’t find it entertaining. Things don’t have to be massively different [irrespective of whether this is or isn’t] to be entertaining though, people watch the various races at a track meet for hours, the only difference from one race to the next is the competitors, they still find it entertaining. Same for football etc. One XC race is only very slightly different from another on the same course but people enjoy both and so on. It’s the spectacle for most people and as long as its a spectacle then it remains entertaining.
Oh no, I do find it entertaining. But it has to have some value. I want to watch a race were the winner is the fastest male or female rider in the world. To then watch that same race again on a different bike is the bit I find pointless.
I don't know about the UCI E-Worlds, but the EWS-E definitely has a big differentiation from any analogue racing. Look at the Power Stage - absolutely nuts.
I want to watch a race were the winner is the fastest male or female rider in the world. To then watch that same race again on a different bike is the bit I find pointless.
What's your thoughts on XCO and XCC then?
Is one of those pointless?
I am fully aware its a business, just not one based (originally at least) on selling you Stuff. Its purely selling you entertainment.
My point is it would not be professional if it were not selling equipment. It could be an event, one which people gather and even pay to watch but without the selling and marketing of equipment, beer, gambling, fags (in the old days) it wouldn't be professional. The money wouldn't be there it would be amateurs. Hence professional sport only exists due to the selling of equipment.
The events are only promotion opportunity because people watch true but they would not be professional events without the selling of stuff.
What’s your thoughts on XCO and XCC then?
Is one of those pointless?
Not pointless, you have to ride one to get a good start position in the other. So its sort of a semi final if you will.
Like I said on the other thread
Sorry Cookeaa, I didn't see your thread.......
My point is it would not be professional if it were not selling equipment. It could be an event, one which people gather and even pay to watch but without the selling and marketing of equipment, beer, gambling, fags (in the old days) it wouldn’t be professional. The money wouldn’t be there it would be amateurs. Hence professional sport only exists due to the selling of equipment.
The events are only promotion opportunity because people watch true but they would not be professional events without the selling of stuff.
Until recently most sport was broadcast on the BBC (no advertising). Advertising hoardings at football grounds didn't appear until the 70`s. So what were they selling us before that? Pro footballers have been around since 1885.
Don't look at BMX racing. The same people are riding the same course on a BMX with 20" wheels and then another race riding a BMX with 24" wheels, heavens above.
Don’t look at BMX racing. The same people are riding the same course on a BMX with 20″ wheels and then another race riding a BMX with 24″ wheels, heavens above.
i dont watch bmx, but yeah pointless
All those in favour of ebikes on here talk about the fact they can do much longer rides. Maybe double the course length for the ebike events.
And yet the average speed for the race was approx 21kph. How do you explain that?
Given the conditions, I dare say they were quicker on the climbs than descents! But even so, 21kph (13mph) average is nothing for these boys. They could ride at that pace comfortably on their regular XC bikes. But it's like saying an F1 car can do over 200mph, so why are the average speeds for F1 races below that?
The difference an e-bike makes to top XC racers is way, way less than an average joe. An e-bike will allow an average rider to effectively double (if not more) their own power, for these guys like Piddock, it'll likely give them 50% more. I just don't get the point of e-bike racing, I really don't!
I have nothing agaisnt E Bikes and their riders , but dont the see the point in a Ebike race on a normal course .
Given the conditions, I dare say they were quicker on the climbs than descents! But even so, 21kph (13mph) average is nothing for these boys. They could ride at that pace comfortably on their regular XC bikes.
The Rio Olympic gold was taken by nino at 22.2kph. Conditions were quite a lot better and I doubt he was comfortable all the way around that.
(not sure but I think they did 7 laps at the cx in February, Pidcock was second in 1hr 10. That's 18.9kph in awful conditions if I'm right on the lap count 3150m per lap)
If this is true the UCI bit is sad. Sure if everyone’s in one place and the framework is in place to have a ‘concept race’ then go for it and be sure to give some nice prizes. But my firm impression with Rainbow Jerseys (specifically, rather than the title of WC itself) within sport is that they’re sacred, due to the way they’re worn throughout the year, and the colours displayed in subsequent years as ribbons. Such a race must massively devalue it.
The UCI aren't exactly famed as a bastion of integrity are they though, nor are they above considering commercial implications before the good of a sport. As much as they are responsible for the governance of competitive cycling, they're also responsible for it's promotion. So they get to play poacher and gamekeeper from time to time.
Have you seen the inflammatory language he’s used?
You spotted that eh? I'm certainly not impressed and so I'm not going to be charitable about the UCI. An E-bike race is not really that terrible as an "event" I just don't think it deserves the "World championship" title. It is a joke, Riders from various disciplines/backgrounds lobbed together on their various sponsors E-Whip Du-jour as a tacked on afterthought following the actual proper world champs? I suppose it's a bit of Fun, but it ain't a real rainbow jersey is it...
He’s made all of it up.
Have I?
I mean it did actually happen, the UCI awarded a title for riding an e-bike apparently.
Well, this has become quite complex, that’s blokes for you.
Anyway, how about a F1:FormulaE analogy? As far as not seeing the point of mildly duplicate sports. Yes, I’m aware the pedants will fapp over semantics on this, in which case.. crack on.
In 5 years time we will look back on this thread like we loo back a the "derailleurs are just for the over forties" quote by Henri Degrange.
In 5 years time we will look back on this thread like we loo back a the “derailleurs are just for the over forties” quote by Henri Degrange.
You mean half the forum will agree whilst polishing their wood burning audi espresso machine and the other half will think it's utter cobblers perpetuated by ludites and would be hipsters in denial?
It's not going to take 5 years...
In 5 years time we will look back on this thread like we loo back a the “derailleurs are just for the over forties” quote by Henri Degrange.
I still agree with that although I would say over sixties as I still don't ride gears at 52
It’s pointless.
What’s next? Driving people to the top of a hill and just letting them race down the other side?
I think elecric enduro validates e bikes . I now approve.
eBikes are here to stay, no argument.
But eBike racing may well be a dead end, or at least may not have found it's optimum format yet.
Anyway, where's GW when you need him?
Can i watch this anywhere????
Would be a great watch!
DrP
