[Closed] Pentlands trail repair dates

Good work Jeremy. I'm in for both! Will also mention it to a few folk not on here.

If someone reminds me the week before I'll even knock up some flapjack...

Indeed - well done Jeremy. I can't do the first one but might be able to do the second. I've stuck it on the Edinburgh uni forum as well.

Can't make the 19th June, but can do 21st August, have put it in my diary.

What tools do we need to bring? Do the rangers need help with trailers / 4X4? I have a reasonably capable 4x4 so can take people to the trail we are working on if access can be arranged for that.

7hz.

I'll remember that ta. Details to follow just getting the dates in. The rangers said they will provide tools and materials but thats the sort of thing that can be arranged nearer the time

Aye, that's a point. I can volunteer a Freelander for portage of materials if required. Though to be honest I can't see us getting that close with damaging the trails we are repairing!

I've posted a link to this thread onto MTBScotland.net. I can't make the August date but should be OK for the one in June. I own no 4x4 but I can bring my own mattock and shovel.

Though to be honest I can't see us getting that close with damaging the trails we are repairing!

It depends. For example, it'd be simple to get a 4x4 quite close to Pistachio Way as it runs right next to a farm track.

Good Man,
Count me in for both days.

Good work, I think I am around for both of those as long as no one else decides to get married this summer!

Hey, top work TJ! Think I'm up for the August session.

ChrisL - Member

it'd be simple to get a 4x4 quite close to Pistachio Way as it runs right next to a farm track.

I've seen a VW bay camper up there

Sarah is going to mention it to the Hervelos tomorrow

By the way what places did you have in mind? I would suggest Phantoms and Black Hill would be the two main areas I would put forward myself. Pistachio is a mess but the regular horse groups there would just mush up any repairs in no time I think. I guess they have to speak to landowners before letting us loose with spades too.

Great work. I'm up for that. I'll try and drum up some local muscle.

Might make the June one but not the August. Can bring tools if I make it.

Good on you Teej.

Hoping I can make both dates, but can't promise anything until the time. Can't offer much in the way of mobilisation, perhaps a little garage space to short-term store tools / bikes in Bonaly if needed.

Good work TJ! I'll try to make both.

Ta chaps. all details to be decided later

Trails under consideration are pistachio way. phantoms and black hill. anyone got any other ideas lets hear them.

I / we just wanted to get the dates in the diary now.

Looks like spades and gloves might be needed as well

I really really want this to work - we might get a nice trail or two out of it

Trails under consideration are pistachio way. phantoms and black hill. anyone got any other ideas lets hear them.

Personally I'd like to get that collapsed corner on the Clubbiedean singletrack sorted out.

*adds it to list*

That would need a fair chunk of work

There will be a limited amount we can do on these two days but if we can get this to work there is no reason why we can't be a big part of trail repair in the pentlands for years to come.

I'm in for either or both (if I'm lucky) but it all depends on work and wont know til nearer the time (what with being self employed etc).

As a suggestion - what about the path next to "rocky road" - not that I ride it too often but it seems to attract a lot of branch throwers / "obstructers"?

Does anyone ride phantoms? I thought it was just a marsh that everyone rode once, regretted and then stayed away from.

Phantoms has been one of my regular routes for 20 years 🙂 Used to be much better than it is now.
couldashouldawoulda - thats the bit we call pistachio way I think - above kinleith farm.

couldashouldawoulda - Member

As a suggestion - what about the path next to "rocky road" - not that I ride it too often but it seems to attract a lot of branch throwers / "obstructers"?

I've heard people say that but I don't think it's true, I've hauled a lot of branches off it (it's 10 minutes from my house) and almost all of them seemed to be windfall.

As was said above, Pistachio is popular with the horse-riders. I doubt there's much that cold be done which would have any long-lasting effect.

I second an improvement to that corner on Clubbiedean though (Wounded Knee) as it seemed there was an off there every time we went that way last summer 🙂

Fair enough, sounds like some restoration is long over due.

Do horses really go on pistachio way? never seen hoofprints and it seems a bit tight and too many low branches? Just asking the question

if so it will be harder to armour it for sure

druidh - Member

I second an improvement to that corner on Clubbiedean though (Wounded Knee) as it seemed there was an off there every time we went that way last summer

I don't think anyone knows what to do with it... Short of sticking a wee bridge across beside it anyway.

I can make the August one, working the June date.

IMHO Black Hill, Phantoms then Pistachio are priority. Other bits that come to mind are:

- As mentioned "the corner" on Clubbiedean. Also on Clubbiedean the bit between the bridge over the outlet and the first plank suffer pretty badly this winter.
- The top of Maiden's
- The continuation of Black Hill/Den's Cleugh. Not sure what if anything could be done here.
- What condition is the bit of path near at the end Green Cleugh near Lover? Last time I was there with was a wee while again it wwas falling in the burn...
- Boggy crossing at the start of Red Road

Obviously we won't have time for these in the 2 days, but if a regular Trailfairies like gang can be put together I think it would be good to get them on the agenda.

TJ - how much of a lead do the Rangers want to take? Are they going to tell us where, what and how they want things rebuild/reinforced or are just planning on letting us loose with shovels and some hardcore? Do they plan to say add drainage ditches to Black Hill? Either works for me just interested what their chat was.

Sadly can't make either dates as I will be on crutches. Great idea though.

I second an improvement to that corner on Clubbiedean though (Wounded Knee) as it seemed there was an off there every time we went that way last summer

I'd be disappointed if that gets sanitized. Its ridable as it is and hasn't been getting any worse the last while. I'd rather see a little work to improve the drainage on the wetter bits like the bit before the log crossing and some of the muddy ruts appearing near the gate.

Fraser - I have still to discuss details with them. These two dates will be closely supervised I think. NO detailed plans yet. In future I don't know where it might lead - depends on how well this goes I guess

Balfa - I have never seen anyone get round that, a new line is appearing behind it, I have seen several nasty crashes on it.

Clubbie dean could do with somework as well but we only have these two dates

Northwind & Druidh
I second an improvement to that corner on Clubbiedean though (Wounded Knee) as it seemed there was an off there every time we went that way last summer

I don't think anyone knows what to do with it... Short of sticking a wee bridge across beside it anyway.

Yas, a wee nothshore bridge across the clubbiedean bit.

Ps my iPhone just changed clubbiedean to club ordeal & club Jeddah.

I too had thought that something wooden would be the most straightforward way to fix Wounded Knee. I haven't been able to take that corner for several years.

Got both dates pencilled in my diary.

I went through Pistachio on the way to work this morning and it's ok at the moment (just a couple of boggy bits), however there are a lot of different lines through there now so it's looking messy.

The top priority for me would be Black Hill - not knowing anything about trailbuilding though, it does seem like it's a big job! I haven't been on Phantoms for Dens/White Cleugh for a while so don't know what they're like.

TJ,

Piscachio is on my commute and I quite often see horses on it.

On Maidens, the burn crossing about 200m from the top on the Glencorse side. This doesn't need much doing to prevent the stream running all down the path. If done, it will prevent the whole top section needing re-done in a year or two.

I'll try to make at least one of the days.

Great stuff chaps. I have this thread bookmarked so you are all being counted 🙂 Useful to see what folk what like to see repaired.

Ta Chris

Hmmmmm Horses on pistachio. Bugger. That will be why its so churned then.

+1 balfa. That corner in Clubbiedean is easily ridable, and fun - just go straight on across the narrow root "bridge" to the grass and then turn.
There are a couple of fallen trees in there that need chainsaw work, though, and the very muddy bits at the start and end of the singletrack need the most work, IMO.

The dates (and a link to this thread) have been posted to the ERC MTB message board, so there might be more volunteers...

I'm heading off on the Woodcock CTC for the first of those dates, but have put the second, August, date in my diary and really hope to make it. It would be great to meet some of the people local to Edinburgh... and find out some of the in-house names for trails since I rarely have a clue to which bit anyone is referring 🙁

Jules - join us on a wednesday night ride.

whyter - ta

I second an improvement to that corner on Clubbiedean though (Wounded Knee) as it seemed there was an off there every time we went that way last summer

I'd be disappointed if that gets sanitized

Ditto. Lets not trail-centre-ise the challenging bits.

I'll hopefully make the second date, busy on 19th June.

interesting on the alternative viewpoints on wounded knee corner. maybe the answer is to sort the new line that is appearing out for the less gnarly of us and leave teh collapsing bit for the more. Dunno.

Regarding Clubbiedean I think it's not about trail-centre-ising or sanitising that corner more returning it to something like its original state. I don't know if you rode it 3 or 4 years ago but it used to a nice flowing corner, with a narrow natural bridge in the middle - more in keeping with the rest of the trail.

I accept trails change but I'm not convinced the current condition is particularly sustainable as the corner it is colapsing and narrowing further. Personally I would like to avoid bridges/northshore and just straighten the entrance/exit a bit to make it more rideable and maintain it in current state as apposed to deteriating further.

+1 for fixing 'Wounded Knee' 😀

[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3069/3111930256_647e7093f3.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3069/3111930256_647e7093f3.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/gingerfox/3111930256/ ]Biking Injury[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/gingerfox/ ]Ginger F0x[/url], on Flickr

I'd like to come help both dates but will depend on what else crops up in the meantime. Pencil me in anyway...

I don't think we should get into doing anything that we cannot agree over. Lets start with the uncontentious stuff 🙂

Regarding Clubbiedean I think it's not about trail-centre-ising or sanitising that corner more returning it to something like its original state. I don't know if you rode it 3 or 4 years ago but it used to a nice flowing corner, with a narrow natural bridge in the middle - more in keeping with the rest of the trail.

When I started riding it years back it was no issue and most people got round it without any problem, with only the very occasional incident. Now it's very different and, particularily as I'm nearly always alone, I don't even try to ride it as the penalty for coming off could be quite severe (especially as I have seen someone tumble down into the burn).

(especially as I have seen someone tumble down into the burn)

That's how I did me knee!

Another potential issue with clubbiedean is I think it is an LNR, so as well as landowner permission there might be some other issues with doing work in it, not sure though. I kind of feel it would take quite a bit of engineering to fix that bit too, and I'd worry any woodwork would just get ripped up and burnt by the kids that partay in there.

There is quite a bit of horse traffic in Pistachio and the branches are definitely deliberately placed. I often remove them to ride through and have seen them put back by the next day. I'm not sure if they are for the horses to jump over or someone trying to stop bikes/walkers, I suspect horses but there might be a local busybody.

I guess the rangers will lead the work or we'll just be standing around bickering about which bits to fix and arguing about lines 😆

As far as Clubbiedean goes, it was the Rangers who put the rail on the sleeper bridge at the other end so presumably they can get authorisation for work there. They're aware of the wounded knee corner but I don't think they have any concensus on what to do with it either. Actually changing the existing bridge wouldn't just be contentious, it'd be bloody hard to do right.

TBH it'll be academic in a few years time once it finishes collapsing, it won't take much now.

i should definitely be able to make the june date. great idea this 🙂

bigjim

I guess the rangers will lead the work or we'll just be standing around bickering about which bits to fix and arguing about lines

could be - but not if I am in charge! 😈
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😉

Wow, only just saw this, must have been on holiday when it was originally posted. Certainly good for August, might manage June although it will be on the back of a week's canoeing in Ardnamurchan and I may not be back in time.

Re: sanitisation, someone, somewhere, is always going to be upset when a trail is repaired, I'll bet there's plenty of people right now who enjoy scraping their pedals down either side of the black hill rut...

I've also seen what the horses do to Pistachio so would question if its worth fixing, althought the upper bit is the fun bit anyway and it seems to weather the horsing. Would it be possible to improve drainage to the muddy bits? Once they dry out the horses mighten't churn them so much.

13thfloormonk

I don't have any experience in trail repair so I really don't know what is possible. I want to see pistachio repaired tho.
teh rangers obviously do have some and I am hoping some of the riders with trail repair experience come along as well. I have had some input from IMBA local reps as well who want to get on board

Part of the reason to get involved is so we can have input so that repairs need not remove all the fun

Hoping to get some more solid info in the next week or so for everyone. I think the consensus seems to be pistachio, phantoms and black hill are the priorities

I really really want to make this work folks. I just hope we get the diggers onthe day. even an hour or two will be a help - organise a ride that day and stop off to help perhpas

I mentioned this to the manager of PHRP who I've got a good professional relationship with through work. He says they really appreciate the enthusiasm and willingness and this is the kind of collaboration they are going to need to keep paths maintained with the financial climate they are facing, and based on the first couple of days we'll hopefully be able to build a relationship to base further work on, so as Jeremy says it would be great if we can make this work.

Does anyone know if any of the Glentress trail fairies are Pentlands riders? They'll have good experience.

Some of the Uni hardcore are trailfairies (and they also help build trails at Glentress 😀 )

Drainage, drainage, drainage.
Provided a trail is well drained, then even quite poor soil will remain fairly firm with reasonable useage.
You need drainage to stop water running/seeping onto the trail (i.e. high side drain), and also drainage to ensure any water can drain away from the trail itself (low side drain).

The standards needed at GT shouldn't be needed in the pentlands.

A lot of techniques used by the Glentress Trailfairies aren't really applicable for the Pentlands. I can't imagine that digging a tray down to the mineral soil, filling it with type 1 and battering it with a motorised heavy weight until it's solid would be popular in Pistachio Way or even possible on Black Hill (how deep would you need to dig?). 🙂

That said, smarter fairies than I (e.g., mc, above) may have actually learnt the principles involved and should be able to apply them and/or direct others in their application.

I have posted on the Trailfairy mailing list about this.

I was thinking more they would be handy and enthusiastic with a spade rather than getting all technical 😆

Stop right there.

EVERYONE knows "wounded knee" is in fact that hill north of Maidens (Harbour Hill?) where our very own italspark did his knee in in 1989, trying to slow a sled that mcmoonter had made from a pallet and some old skis.

n0085 🙄

Kit has pictures to back up Clubbiedean's claim to "Wounded Knee", what have you got, Al? 😉

THE MEMORIES OF A LEGEND 😡

Sorry Al, nae pics of Italspark's knee or the sledge. On the night in question on its first run the snow was frozen so we were going for a max speed run over a cornice.

Italspark was the bravest so he went first. After launching over the cornice he was doing about 30mph when he leapt off fearing death. His leg went through the frozen crust and stuck while his body continued at 30mph. It ripped the tendons in his knee apart. Wol and I carried him to A&E. We didnt even look for the sledge. I went up next day to find it in case someone else tried it. It was miles from where Italspark fell. I cut it up for firewood.

Cheers Pete. There'll probably be medical records if you want them ChrisL 😉

I thought that the established STW level of proof required is "pics or it didn't happen"?

This all happened pre-stw.

No bikes involved so surely doesn't apply!

How did people manage to make decisions regarding mountain bikes pre STW? I can imagine them shuffling around bike shops like a zombie horde, crying over the tyres.

Tyres = "Groondies"

Groondies +1. There was only one tyre back then.

Right - more details.

I had a meeting with the rangers today, Fruitful discussion indeed. There are constraints upon the rangers that I had not appreciated in that they can only work with permission of the landowner. Also we are unsure of just how many folk we will get out and therefore how much can be achieved on the day. The rangers also have a policy of attempting to maintain previously built paths in the first instance befoer doing work on other paths. This might not always fit in with our priorities.

So - taking everything into consideration for the first of these days Sunday 19th June Green Cleuch is the target path. There are a couple of sections on this where drainage is blocked and the path has deteriorated significantly. There are a couple of different sections in Green Cleuch that need repair and hopefully we will be able to complete these repairs in a single day which is one of the reasons for choosing this path rather than picking an area where the work will take many days.

Depending how this goes will to some extent influence which path we go to on the second day - make this a success and we will be able to tackle something more difficult and intensive next time..

So - meet at 10am on Sunday 19th June at the gate nearest Bavelaw on Green cleuch. [url= http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=317050&y=662550&z=0&sv=nt170625&st=5&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf ]GR NT170 625[/url]

It will be perfectly acceptable to do a part of a day or even just half an hour on your way past. The rangers will be bring spades and gloves but if you have your own and can bring them great

Can people post up on here if they are coming and for what sort of time? Can those of you who were in contact with other groups let them know and again post on here some indication of how many folk and when?

Ta muchly. Lets make this work chaps and chapesses!

BTW - I am away for two weeks after Saturday so won't be able to bump this or reply until I get back.

feel free to email me and to pass my email (in profile) on to appropriate groups.

Ta

Sorry TJ - I'll be riding through the English Midlands that day.
Good luck with this and well done for organising it.

I should be there for 10am. Your map link is not working for me. Is this the gate at the wall with the style? not a great description, sorry!

I think so. try http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=316997&y=662515&z=115&sv=316997,662515&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=708&ax=316997&ay=662515&lm=0

I'll be there at 10AM. I can bring a shovel and a mattock so I'll be driving. Is the nearest place we can park at the car park at Threipmuir or are we allowed to take cars up Beech Avenue and is there somewhere to park up there?

Cris - I'll check on that. Teh rangers will have a 4x4 anyway

TJ, that's better. I was thinking closer to bavelaw castle so thanks for clearing that up.

TJ and others - well done for organising this. I have other commitments on the 19th, but as a rider who rides in the Pentlands once or twice a month, I'd like to say thanks for your efforts.

Really hoping I'll make it for the day, from 10.00 (driving up from Lancs the previous day). Well, someone's got to take the photos, eh?
Don't forget yer sandwiches 🙂

any more?

I'll bump this a couple of times in your absence TJ.