Bank holiday Monday, I put £3 on the meter (as I didnt think I would be more than 3hours). Get back late and theres a ticket on. Now, my arguement is I didnt think I would get lost twice on the loop. Due to the nature of the area/sort of parkers' that the area attracts that you cant always be sure how long you will be out? I.e. I was NOT evading paying extra. Is this reasonable grounds to appeal on?
Go on, flame me etc. I just feel abit miffed.
Nope.
If you weren't [b]certain[/b] you would be less than 3 hours why not just pay for longer to begin with?
No the park authority will not take this as an excuse. They will prob state you should have purchased a longer stay ticket. Mate of mines ticket fell off dashboard and he had to send in the ticket to get the fine reversed.
Very strong case IMHO. Why don't these sorts of places, not just let you put money in the machine when you leave. That way you would be sure not to under pay. ****in councils.
I agree that the cost of parking there is crazy, but to be brutally honest, I don't think you have an excuse going by the rules. Sorry - still, you had a good ride!
Guess I'll pay it. Means they wont get any revenue out of me again though. Not a penny. Just think there should be some leeway in their appeals process?
Oh come off it! 🙂
You should try almost missing the last train out of Edale...
EDIT: I have never paid for parking in Edale.
You shouldn't have to pay to park when you're on a bike. Park somewhere 'free' on your route and ride from there. Save the town centre carparks for the town visitors.
Your defence is crap but if you ever want to appeal get busy with the camera and the contents of the ticket looking for technicalities that get you off such as 'obscured signage', 'incomplete tickets', etc.
If it's a private car park (not council) and there's a scale of charges just send them an amount that corresponds to time you overstayed (their losses that you are liable for) and then tell them to sod off with their silly fines.
M
BD, that would be a very very long ride home 😮 ...either that or a night rough/B&B/getting a miffed friend to come and collect you!
You're joking right?!
So I should appeal if I got a parking ticket in town: 'sorry sir, I didn't mean to be longer than an hour but there was ever such a long queue in the M&S food hall...'
Sheesh
count yersell lucky,
3hr ticket - £6
back late, 2 mins
cost to remove clamp, £120
Mattie_H, fair point. soobalias tell us more!
Paying for parking in the peaks helps to keep the invasion of MTB asylum seekers to a minimum l.o.l 😆
Also helps to pay for wheelchair access on my favorite trails (lovely)!
wheelchair access?
Private car park?
If so, don't bother paying any "fine" (it's not a fine, it's an unenforceable invoice)
More useful info here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/
If it's a council issued/ authorised ticket then you must pay it.
All the private mob could possible claim for would be their loss as a result of you overstaying i.e. the price of a ticket rather than a ridiculous charge of £40, £50, £60 etc
3hr ticket - £6
back late, 2 mins
cost to remove clamp, £120
How did they manage to get the clamp on within 2 minutes?
No its public I think- across the road from the train station/big carpark with toilet block
you're having a laugh aincher? "I didn't think I'd get lost. Twice" Brilliant :o)
Hora you are daft as a brush mate! Its a bit like being late for work and just flippantly saying you overlaid. Or maybe beaing late to a job interview and aying you got stuck in traffic. Its just an excuse and there would be more chance inyou getting your money back than IVH sending his goods out to internet buyers.
I belted down the lane (passed the turning just before the old farm shacks) and ended up at the bottom of the steep lane/road. Climbed back up....took the correct fork and still ended up almost going upto reservoir itself 😕
Seth I point you to my original post
"Go on, flame me etc. I just feel abit miffed."
Still, a Yorkshireman will always try and save himeself a few pounds 😆
Is there a name of an issuing council or company on the actual ticket?
Car park is High Peak Council not National Park one, dont think they will go for the excuse I got lost excuse.
Its in the car but from memory its says 'Hope Valley council' on it
'Hope Valley council'
Pay it
This may help, applies more to Tesco's or Sainsbury's type car parks.
To whom it may concern
[Add their title and address, Miss Jones}
I am in receipt of your letter dated [insert the date Miss Jones] alleging that a vehicle registered to me overstayed an arbitrary duration in a vehicle park attached to one of your stores.
As I am sure you will be aware, it is the driver of the vehicle with whom any contract to park was made, not the Registered Keeper. You will also be aware that the terms of any such contract must be set out in such a manner as to be obvious to anyone with whom you wished to make the contract. These terms must comply with all applicable contract law, such as the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.
Should you wish to pursue this claim, please supply evidence that the person parking the vehicle you allege to have overstayed the set duration would have had the opportunity to read the contract terms. Such evidence must be, as a minimum:
a detailed route and timings of the vehicle's travel into and through the vehicle park;
a detailed route of the driver's passage out of the vehicle and into the store - this and the evidence listed immediately above are to show that the driver had reasonable opportunity to see and read the contract terms;
photographs of all relevant signage in situ in locus in quo at the time of the alleged overstaying so as to show that the signs were actually readable;
an accurately-drawn, scaled, map showing the location of each sign and indicating which you believe the driver would have had the easy opportunity to read (the routes of the vehicle and driver should be superimposed upon the map);
details of the weather conditions at the time, in particular the visibility (all to be confirmed by the Meteorological Office);
sufficient details of the driver with whom you claim to have made a contract to enable their unique identification;
a detailed description of the processes followed to record and analyse the evidence of the alleged overstaying; and
a notarised statement from a senior manager at the store to the effect that your recording and analytical systems were working normally at the time of the alleged overstaying.
Without the above, I cannot entertain your claim and any further demands for payment will be considered harassment and will be reported to the police with a view to your criminal prosecution under s1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1998, s85 of the Postal Services Act 2000, s127 of the Communications Act 2003, and/or s2 of the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 - this last with a view to the court issuing a Restraining Order against you. Additionally, civil action will be taken against you personally and your employer to cease and desist and for the recovery of all costs, together with a substantial payment in compensation for the mental pain and suffering caused.
I expect your reply by return, either providing the evidence requested above or indicating simply your termination of this correspondence.
It'll be High Peak Borough Council up there. Just pay it! You cocked-up live with it.
I'm in favour of Canadian style annual national park permits, pay-up once and forget till next year.
This may help, applies more to Tesco's or Sainsbury's type car parks.To whom it may concern
[Add their title and address, Miss Jones}I am in receipt of your letter dated [insert the date Miss Jones] alleging that a vehicle registered to me overstayed an arbitrary duration in a vehicle park attached to one of your stores.
As I am sure you will be aware, it is the driver of the vehicle with whom any contract to park was made, not the Registered Keeper. You will also be aware that the terms of any such contract must be set out in such a manner as to be obvious to anyone with whom you wished to make the contract. These terms must comply with all applicable contract law, such as the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.
Should you wish to pursue this claim, please supply evidence that the person parking the vehicle you allege to have overstayed the set duration would have had the opportunity to read the contract terms. Such evidence must be, as a minimum:
a detailed route and timings of the vehicle's travel into and through the vehicle park;
a detailed route of the driver's passage out of the vehicle and into the store - this and the evidence listed immediately above are to show that the driver had reasonable opportunity to see and read the contract terms;
photographs of all relevant signage in situ in locus in quo at the time of the alleged overstaying so as to show that the signs were actually readable;
an accurately-drawn, scaled, map showing the location of each sign and indicating which you believe the driver would have had the easy opportunity to read (the routes of the vehicle and driver should be superimposed upon the map);
details of the weather conditions at the time, in particular the visibility (all to be confirmed by the Meteorological Office);
sufficient details of the driver with whom you claim to have made a contract to enable their unique identification;
a detailed description of the processes followed to record and analyse the evidence of the alleged overstaying; and
a notarised statement from a senior manager at the store to the effect that your recording and analytical systems were working normally at the time of the alleged overstaying.
Without the above, I cannot entertain your claim and any further demands for payment will be considered harassment and will be reported to the police with a view to your criminal prosecution under s1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1998, s85 of the Postal Services Act 2000, s127 of the Communications Act 2003, and/or s2 of the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 - this last with a view to the court issuing a Restraining Order against you. Additionally, civil action will be taken against you personally and your employer to cease and desist and for the recovery of all costs, together with a substantial payment in compensation for the mental pain and suffering caused.I expect your reply by return, either providing the evidence requested above or indicating simply your termination of this correspondence.
If you get a ticket in Sainsburys, Tescos etc and send that letter, expect a world of pain.
Responding to any communication from a PPC marks you as a fish and they'll harrass you for ages.
Completely ignore anything they send to you. I really can't stress this enough. Never, never, never write to them or call them. They'll send 4-5 letters then give up.
If you communicate with them they'll hound you for a lot longer.
There is no reasoning with them. The points in that sample letter are completely valid, but the PPC has no appeals process. They know what they're doing is a scam and nothing will persuade them to stop harassing you, other than completely ignoring them in the first place. You have a 1 in a million chance of them ever taking you to court.
I'm in favour of Canadian style annual national park permits, pay-up once and forget till next year.
I was thinking that looking at the councils website- £30 for the year.
The thing is in the UK you would need them for each council/ national park authority. There isn't nothing national.
S Works. That is without doubt the most bizarre piece of disproportionnate cod-legal tosserism I have ever read. Astounding, unbelievable, responsibility-evading, ruining-everything-for-everyone [i]bollocks[/i] made of hand-engraved bollock-kryptonite and set with big knob-off fat 48carat brilliant-cut conflict diamonds mined with child slave labour in the giant bollock-mines of bollockdom. I salute in awe-struck wonder the sheer majestic size and depth of the gaping void where the sense of proportion and dignity belongs in anyone who would seriously entertain sending such a ludicrous letter because they didn't want to pay for over-staying in a carpark and were willing to lie about it. 😯 😆 😯 😆
BoardinBob - i just got a letter from a PPC confirming that they had cancelled my ticket...
That is without doubt the most bizarre piece of disproportionnate cod-legal tosserism
oh, I dunno, isn't it fun to stick it to The Man ??
BoardinBob - i just got a letter from a PPC confirming that they had cancelled my ticket...
Interesting!
Which PPC, what approach did you take and what was their reason for cancelling?
Simon - I suppose if you're [i]just[/i] sending it as a revolutionary blow intended to bring The Man stumbling to his knees then it's just about OK, but not likely to rouse the Masses from their slumber.
But if you're just doing it because you don't want to pay a parking fine then it is sadder than a Dungeons & Dragons Society soggy-biscuit competition. 🙂
Bob, clamp on in two minutes? good question, not only was the clamp on but the clampers had vanished already.
the time on the ticket had also been crossed through and re-written - bit suspect, and my best chance at appeal it seems, that and i couldnt negotiate with the clamper as she could not speak any more english than "card or cash" !
Soobalias, more fraud from the PPC f*ckers
Simon - I suppose if you're just sending it as a revolutionary blow intended to bring The Man stumbling to his knees
hey, include me out - I don't even drive :o)
Hah - I got booked in the very same car park last December! We bought a full-day ticket on arrival, but my bike buddy forgot to stick it on the windscreen. We appealed to the council, and got the fine overturned. I guess it helped that the ticket showed our car reg number, to prove we'd genuinely paid. It's certainly worth a letter to the council, isn't it?
We returned to Edale the following day, and I found approx. £5 in the ticket machine!
Clamp up in 2mins? Ive seen this last month in London- a Egyptian bloke was shouting and swearing at me as I rolled up outside the hotel telling me to move and quick (corner of the eye I noticed a transit roaring towards me)...I belted it and the Transit realised I wasnt going to stop (I wasnt). Parked in the hotel carpark once through the barrier and went across to shake the Egyptian fellas hand (he'd just been stung alittle earlier). Later on I saw a woman clamped (I was too late to stop her- she was already out of her car). One talked to her whilst the other whipped round and put on a clamp then round the otherside with a D-lock. Sum-cost for them? £300+....when they towed the cars away they popped them across the road round the back of the local Sainsburys/VW dealers- 'storage' my ass.
Why don't these sorts of places, not just let you put money in the machine when you leave. That way you would be sure not to under pay.
I have thought the same of every car park
S Works. That is without doubt the most bizarre piece of disproportionnate cod-legal tosserism I have ever read. Astounding, unbelievable, responsibility-evading, ruining-everything-for-everyone bollocks made of hand-engraved bollock-kryptonite and set with big knob-off fat 48carat brilliant-cut conflict diamonds mined with child slave labour in the giant bollock-mines of bollockdom. I salute in awe-struck wonder the sheer majestic size and depth of the gaping void where the sense of proportion and dignity belongs in anyone who would seriously entertain sending such a ludicrous letter because they didn't want to pay for over-staying in a carpark and were willing to lie about it.
You said it so much better than I could have managed
I have thought the same of every car park
Technology/the law of upgrades reaches even non-cyclists...
Which PPC, what approach did you take and what was their reason for cancelling?
Civil enforcement Ltd.
they didnt have a leg to stand on, I had proof of phoning them to make payment, I had proof of them taking the payment from my card. I politely informed them where they could poke their enforcement notice...
Well done. Backed up by strong evidence.
Paid. Just an observation, on the ticket itself they noted my tax disc number and expiry date 😕 I guess if you've nowt to fear fine but what if your a day or two over- bet that info would be past straight onto the DVLA!
The DVLA already have that info.
So whys it marked on the ticket (as in a rellevent point?)
Who knows.
It's for proof that it is actually that particular car, and not some other car with hookie plates.
Stops people claiming that their car was at home and it must have been someone who copied/stole their numberplate.
So whys it marked on the ticket (as in a rellevent point?)
verification that the parking operative didn't make a typo with the reg number?
Why don't these sorts of places, not just let you put money in the machine when you leave. That way you would be sure not to under pay.
A pre-pay meter is cheap & easy - paying as you leave requires more machines & barriers
Ah good point guys.
I agree- pay when you leave would be perfect although I suspect the costs would have to include auto-barrier etc.
I don't - however - see why car parks don't start introducing SMS text payments
You text your reg number when you arrive & then text it again when you leave & the money either gets taken via your phone bill or via a pre-authorised card
Not everyone has a mobile phone
What if you can't get a signal?
What if you don't have any credit?
What if your battery's dead?
Not everyone has a mobile phoneWhat if you can't get a signal?
What if you don't have any credit?
What if your battery's dead?
You use the pre-pay meter
I've seen it somewhere - but can't remember where
Prepay meters are 'good' for income. Normally you would always pay for extra. If you leave early and someone takes your spot then they're effectively getting two payments for the same parking place. And obviously the cheapest method of extracting cash.
Always wondered these days with plain paper tickets, a scanner and a modicum of photoshop expertise whether you could just scan an old ticket in, amend the times and use it the next week? Obviously, not that I'd condone that sort of behaviour.....
FWIW the day rate in that particular car park is £3.50. Sounds pretty reasonable to me so perhaps the solution to the original post would have been grubbing about for an extra 50p. Adding SMS based payments on top of the existing system isn't gonna make it any cheaper to park!
Just out of interest...if I was to remove my number plates,tax disc & any other identifying marks before leaving my un-ticketed car, what would they put on the parking ticket ?
I'm assuming a car-park is not technically a highway, & therefore leaving my vehicle with no plates on isnt an offence...?
Bet they have a local tow truck on call for that scenario!
I parked at the M1 Toddington services the other week. Met up with a customer, left the car then headed off in his car to his customer in London. I was aware I had to pay so put the reg no into the machine & up pops a perfect photo of me entering the services, along with the reg no enhanced. I mentioned it to a chap in the shop & he told me they do number plate recognition on every vehicle entering the services.
Any that go over 2 hours without having paid are automatically issued with a £50 fine...
It cost me £8 for the day incidentally, & that's on top of the £6 bacon bap & £4 cup of coffee.
Oh, & a bottle of Oasis...£3.49...robbing tossers.
Is this reasonable grounds to appeal on?
Yeah, go on. I'm sure the car park people would like a good laugh...
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hora - MemberBank holiday Monday, I put £3 on the meter (as I didnt think I would be more than 3hours). Get back late and theres a ticket on. Now, my arguement is I didnt think I would get lost twice on the loop. Due to the nature of the area/sort of parkers' that the area attracts that you cant always be sure how long you will be out? I.e. I was NOT evading paying extra. Is this reasonable grounds to appeal on?
Go on, flame me etc. I just feel abitt miffed.
Tough shit
fwiw - a few years ago we went walking from Edale - parked up, bought ticket, went to the loo, kitted up, got 5 miles into the walk, found the ticket in my pocket...
Got back to the car - found a fine on the windscreen. So I sent them a cheque, the ticket I'd bought but not displayed, and a nice letter explaining the circs. I got a nicer letter back with the cheque returned.
I like High Peak Borough Council parking fines division! (Though I'm anally retentive about parking tickets now!)
Din't try my letter then..............
G
I have worked in edale several times and often wondered how strict the councils were on the parking front. Its only a fiver for the whole day much cheeper than parking in a city centre or the same amount as you would spend in the pub at the end of a ride. Just pay the fine take it as a lesson learn't oh and learn to navigte 🙂
S-Works; I think Big Dummy had it right, tbh, regarding your 'letter'.
You'd fall down, when challenged to prove who was actually 'driving' the vehicle, and besides, unless your car is registered and insured as a hire/3rd party use vehicle, I'm pretty sure you'd be liable for any fines.
Hora's been a numpty,and does not in any way have a leg to stand on, legally. He should just pay up, and address his numptitude.
You'd fall down, when challenged to prove who was actually 'driving' the vehicle, and besides, unless your car is registered and insured as a hire/3rd party use vehicle, I'm pretty sure you'd be liable for any fines.
S-works letter related to tickets issued on private land by private parking companies.
The registered keeper is under absolutely no legal obligation to identify the driver at the time to a private parking company.