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Professional cyclist not setting a very good example IMO, and then the race organisers saying its ok...
"Millions of television viewers saw live this extremely serious and irresponsible action which could have been tragic," said SNCF.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/32284180
Yes, the Daily Mail will be up in arms.
TBH I see this as similar to yellow flags in F1 - the rules need to be clearly defined and taken out of the hands of the riders as competitive people in oxygen debt often make stupid decisions.
Simple rule - if there's a railway crossing, the motorbike goes off ahead and if they determine the crossing is closed they hold out a red flag, no one passes and gets DQ'd if they do (I know technically that's the rule but it's not clear enough IMO).
Cant work out whats hard to understand, copper says "don't cross", you don't cross.
Barriers coming down, you don't cross.
Doesn't take a genius to work it out.
SNCF well within their rights to prosecute.
TBH I see this as similar to yellow flags in F1 - the rules need to be clearly defined and taken out of the hands of the riders as competitive people in oxygen debt often make stupid decisions.
They are - riders breaking the rules get DQd, they did so a few years ago. Perhaps this time they decided it was too many to do.
So, can we identify any of the pros who failed to stop? Any bearing on the result should the organisers do a u-turn in the face of UCI disapproval and do some DQing?
a comprehensive report on each of them be submitted as soon as possible for review and potential action
Oh I have this one covered
The barriers went down and not everyone stopped
The UCI is taking both incidents very seriously and has requested that a comprehensive report on each of them be submitted as soon as possible for review and potential action.
They went through a closed barrier even though there was a big bloody train coming and didn't care. Nobody was there to stop them. DQ all bellends who went through. Fine race organisers for being incompetent. End of report.
If that train had come through a moment earlier the impact would've been horrific...
At first I thought the excuse of they didn't have time to stop was a bit lame, considering cars seem to manage just fine. Then I remembered, they're roadies so probably out of their tits on performance enhancers so fair enough.
Sadly, it totally undermines the riders' complaints about rider safety at Flanders and the Basque Country.
Barriers aside, it's not as close as I was assuming having read the story about it... However, agreed that it's pathetic they're just letting them off the hook...
Must say I would have done the same as the athletes. You've ridden your lungs out to get into a break, you can see that there's time to cross, although the barrier is already down. Obviously you're going to cross! It's a race, isn't it? Obviously this isn't a great situation but I'd be blaming race organisers rather than the riders.
If that train had come through a moment earlier the impact would've been horrific...
Just like every time you cross the road then...
It wasnt as close?
That'll be the Policeman who stopped more crossing.
Sorry they should be DQ/prosecuted
The final three that went across had plenty of time to stop. The last one across has to push past the motorcycle so not having time to stop is absolute tosh.
Must say I would have done the same as the athletes. You've ridden your lungs out to get into a break, you can see that there's time to cross, although the barrier is already down. Obviously you're going to cross! It's a race, isn't it? Obviously this isn't a great situation but I'd be blaming race organisers rather than the riders.
They neutralise the race to allow it all to come back together. Better to have a rest, then attack once it's all joined again! No one gains an advantage from the crossing being down.
How close a call it was does not matter. Its the fact they broke a rule, and then race organisers say it is ok to do so.
'Professionals' should be setting an example.
Then there is the drugs scandals of the last few years, and here they are flouting the rules again.
Its just not very good for the sport.
It wasn't the break, it was the main peloton
No warning lights or sounds at French level crossing then? No excuses for that, every one of them knew that the race would be neutralised anyway
I've seen worse at junctions during sportives : )
Slowpuncheur's point about Pais Vasco is a good one - yes rider safety was compromised, but then they gladly compromise it themselves entirely needlessly. It does undermine their argument a little.
You say Pais Vasco, I say Potato.... 😉
To be fair, I expect that their argument is that if they choose to risk their health, that's fine. If the organisers do so (by leaving road furniture in place) then that's a different matter.
And I can get that. We choose to throw ourselves down silly things but might feel differently about it if we were forced to do it.
I see what you mean, but that argument falls down when you consider how they could potentially be risking the (mental) health of a train driver if the worst were to happen. Imagine being the French train driver who killed the current French road race champion (for the sake of argument) - not forgetting the example they set as role models whether they like it or not.
Pfft! Blimmin H&S it used to be every man for himself in the old days & if you got across the commissaires wouldn't have slowed you down to wait for the peleton. It's your own fault for not being quick enough to get there & beat the train
It's traditional
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I wonder what the event insurance companies view is on this! Especially if the rider are not DQ or disqualified to discourage this in the future.
I'm amazed that relatively significant events like the PR with live telly watched by millions don't have the trains stop/slow for them to keep the route open.
Problem is they don't know when the riders will cross the tracks as the race times can vary so much depending on tactics, conditions, etc.
race judges didn't see who'd gone through barriers so couldn't penalise them at the time so race was neutralised instead.
the route crosses the train track 5 times so they couldn't really ask the trains to stop.
what is pitiful is that this is a main story on the BBC website when the event itself was not.
nothing bad happened. move on.
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Apparently the warning lights started less than 10 seconds before the front of the peloton got there, and arguably the front riders slamming on their brakes and causing a pileup is not the right thing to do. But then neither is going around closed barriers.
The Eurosport commentators called it right; too many to DQ. I think they should all be DQ'd though.
One day its all going to go horribly wrong! This isn't the first time in PR or other races,particularly the one day classics. The organisers need to get a grip, spell out the rules and the arrangements for dealing with crossing closures - the break gets held at its gap, the rest are neutralised until the peloton is back together. SNCF are quite within their rights to go apeshit. Imagine Network Rails response.
Oh and rural crossings in France have at least bells as a warning before the barriers come down.
Sncf have pressed charges against X, police will have to investigate.
They neutralise the race to allow it all to come back together.
Sounds nice but it is still a hard ride to get back on the slightly slowed peleton and the group out front were pulling out time on the main bunch.
I can see it both ways but for me there will always be people who bend whatever rules you set so it is up to the race organisers to have clear rules and then enforce them.
Thing is this isn't a bending of the rules - like (for example) ducking under a lowering barrier at a LC, this was blatant flouting of the rules!
Sounds nice but it is still a hard ride to get back on the slightly slowed peleton and the group out front were pulling out time on the main bunch.
The UCI has rules about road blockages, level crossing etc. If the break has more than 30" and it gets stopped by a level crossing, it is then allowed to restart until it has gained back it's time, then the bunch is started.
If the break gets through then the bunch get held up, that's tough shit for the bunch.
The problem was here that the barriers came down literally ON the bunch. 20" earlier - no problem they'd all have stopped. 20" later - no problems, they'd all have got through.
Massively unfortunate timing. The only thing you can do is station the police further up the road every time there's a level crossing. Also, that level crossing only had half barriers, if it had been full ones to actually block the road then again, no problem.
I'd have probably gone through the barrier.
It's a race, and I'm not stopping if the bloke in front isn't.
I'm not claiming it's right though.
Bloody stupid thing to do I reckon, silly choice in the heat of the moment.
See this is why the UCI need to allow disc brakes. Cyclists are clearly having issues stopping.
It's OK we can calm down, the UCI have it in hand and have a great track record in thorough investigations and dealing head-on with mass rule breaking...
This might be controversial, but maybe they used their eyes to see if they could cross in time, like we all do when crossing the road.... And maybe they were right, seeing as none of them were killed.
Maybe you do that with your car at a crossing next time andy.
If the UCI/race organiser made it clear they'd neutralise the race in the event of a train crossing there'd be no reason for riders to take the risk, it's clear the riders thought the race would carry on without them and in the heat of the moment smashed on through. Rules should be upheld and DQ's handed out but IMO you need to remove that "oh shit I'm getting dropped because of this" feeling.
I disagree with what they did (although I understand it) but did anyone notice that the clip on the BBC was edited to make it look like there was less of a time gap between the last riders crossing and the train coming through? It seems they are turning into a tabloid channel.
This might be controversial, but maybe they used their eyes to see if they could cross in time, like we all do when crossing the road.... And maybe they were right, seeing as none of them were killed.
Except it was a big bastard bunch of riders negotiating the temporary chicane created by the lowered barrier, across a set of rails, all it would have taken would be for one rider to tumble into several others and the train would be scything it's way through cabonfirbre bikes and EPO soaked morons...
you can see several riders clipping the barriers and setting them wagging, half of them probably couldn't be sure there wasn't a train right about to cross, bunched up with the other riders...
Sure you would have risked it...Just like crossing a quite country lane innit.
Can't really blame the riders, anyone who has raced knows that you certainly wouldn't be thinking clearly in a situation like that, adrenaline fueled oxygen debt and all that.
The fact is that the UCI need to get their house in order and lay down clear rules for how these situations are to be handled by race organisers. As has been pointed out, trains can't be stopped as they can't tell when the race will roll through. Sunday's race was already delayed at the start for a while as there was a concern that due to the tailwaind the race would be way ahead of the fastest schedule.
I am at a loss to understand why there isn't a requirement for the race organiser to put a marshall on a point like this who has full responsibility and authority to stop the race in a situation like that, any rider going past the marshall in that situation is DQ'd, no excuses. Why is that so difficult to implement, I mean the marshall could even be put in contact with the rail authority to be made aware of oncoming traffic and that the race would need to be stopped.!? Doesn't sound like rocket science to implement, it's not like the P-R organisers are short of money, lord knows the teams don't see much of it..
H1ghland3r +1... There are some decisions the riders take and some that rest with the organizers, the level crossing piece is not for the riders to decide imho.
I think, though happy to be corrected, the route crossed the railway 5 times so it's not beyond the vision of someone responsible that the train issue would happen. I bet sncf have pretty accurate timings of trains and crossing locations too.
A rolling police outrider, job sorted, sncf bod with coms to the trains... Loads of options.
I was at the start of the Arenburg Trench and the barrier there came down just after the peloton came through which caused enough chaos in the convoy. Imagine the peloton heading into Arenburg and the barrier coming down!!
It's a crazy day. People were stopping on the autoroute to watch the race go by too. The police couldnt stop the motorists either - too many.
organisers and UCI fail IMO.
It shouldn't be the riders decision to jump that barrier, or have to slam the brakes on in such a big bunch.
I doubt any of them had a good look both ways with their racing heads on....
You can see one guy get caught on the far barrier!
If it's a closed race course, that should include trains as well as cars.
It shouldn't be the riders decision to jump that barrier, or have to slam the brakes on in such a big bunch.
No but the rule is (edit) Barriers Down stop
From the UCI rule Book
2.3.034 Level crossings
It shall be strictly forbidden to cross level crossings when the barrier is down.
Apart from risking the penalty for such an offence as provided by Law, offending riders shall be disqualified
from the race by the commissaires
I'm guessing that it should have been stressed at the race briefing.
Adding a police/marshall at the crossings to stop close the road at the point may be required.
If it's a closed race course, that should include trains as well as cars.
Somewhat harder to implement a rolling road block for trains, and what about the cost of that? Who picks that up? It costs shit loads when trains get delayed, how long for the entire caravan to get through?
Nice theory, not in practice.
It's pretty much impossible to stop the trains without massive inconvenience since the race schedule is variable. Sunday's race was dry with a tailwind hence the race started late to try to finish on time for the TV schedules but there are many variables.
all it would have taken would be for one rider to tumble into several others and the train would be scything it's way through cabonfirbre bikes and EPO soaked morons...
Not to mention the possibility of the train derailing if you get enough bits of metal and bone under the wheels.
Apart from risking the penalty for such an offence as provided by Law, offending riders [u][i][b]shall[/u][/i][/b] be disqualified from the race by the commissaires
My emphasis on the shall, but to me that's clear. Not might.
The feeling that you can't, because too many were involved..... you'd only have to do it once, and then it would stop.
As to whether it adds to or spoils the racing; it's part OF the racing. If the break get another 30s as a result of that good fortune, so be it. If the break get held up by 30s as a result, bad fortune. Kind of like a safety car in F1, it's there for safety and accepted as such. Plus of course the peloton has the option to soft pedal and regroup, as they did this time.
the ones riding through as the barriers are coming down is debateable, the ones pushing past the cop deserve a hefty fine and neutralised results etc
Ask Robert Millar about barriers and trains (1982 vuelta!)
I did it once, when I was a lot younger and more reckless. About 5 miles from the finish I had 30seconds and was flying (averaging almost 20mph probably) lights started, barriers came down, I saw the train in the distance and weaved through. About a mile down the road a police bike pulled alongside and I was politely requested to ‘retire with a mechanical’ or else accompany them to the station.
averaging almost 20mph probably
Strava trace or it didn't happen! 😉
I'm pretty sure in France the lights flash well before the barriers come down. They mean stop, not 'squeeze through if you feel brave / stupid / lucky'
The barriers are a physical stopper, the lights are the signal.
After the lights - DQ. Would end it overnight.
You could also put up primes for each crossing, as clearly it's in everyones interest to be with the bunch and at the front for more than cash reasons, as opposed to current KoM where only a few bother with the effort.
I'm pretty sure in France the lights flash well before the barriers come down. They mean stop, not 'squeeze through if you feel brave / stupid / lucky'
All level crossings flash before the barriers come down, otherwise you'd have vehicles ****ting the barriers even more regularly.
There's absolutely no reason to ride under a falling barrier, there's even less reason to barge through when they're very, very clearly down with a Gendarme protecting them! The UCI should DQ the lot of them, there's no ambiguity in the rules whatsoever, shame they're not enforcing them.
That's not saying I wouldn't get caught up in the melee and end up going because everyone around me did, no righteous indignation being shown, just looking at it objectively.
You wouldn't go irrespective of what everyone else did if you KNEW (as in cast iron guaranteed knew) that anyone that went would be DQ'ed.
ie: that the UCI commissaires would apply the rules as written down.
Paris-Roubaix needed a bit more added excitement, what can be more thrilling than possible death by TGV ? Do Red Bull know about this ?? They could strafe them with their biplanes for added danger and spectator interest.
UCI should fine every team with a rider who broke the rules. Won't impact on the race results but might make them think harder about doing it again.
Shouldn't be too hard to find out which riders went through the barrier as they're all running gps's.
Teams should face sanctions until all guilty riders handed over.
yep. might not be fun but I think the problem would get sorted pretty quickAfter the lights - DQ. Would end it overnight.
It wasn't the only unfortunate incedent either
The chap in this pic chose to nip into the bushes for a dump just as the leaders and the chopper went over.
hard to organise but manage to close roads for all sorts of events and trains can be slowed or stopped but if no will then either neutralise the race or make it even clearer that those who do cross with the barriers down and from the video I watched ignored a police motorcyclist will be disqualified - rather than the might be, possibly, sorry we have rules but we didn't mean it
would like to see the riders that can be identified line up and apologise to the train driver and put their hand in their pockets and contribute to the local emergency services support funds - if it had all gone wrong then picking up the pieces (literally) and living with the consequences wouldn't have just fallen to the race organisers
One of the riders who jumped the barriers was Wiggins.
Just wondering what the comments would be like if he got DQ'd...
I can imagine Cycling Weekly struggling with the moral dilemma of wanting all riders to be DQ'd while trying to portray Saint Wiggins in the best possible light.
😉
U23 Tour of Flanders.