[Closed] Overheard in a LBS the other day

thisisnotaspoon - Member

Well if you're not local it's unlikely you'll be back that often? And they probably get 10's of 'can I borrow' requests every day (and probably a poportion of those never bring the tool back). All fo no business.

I am a regular and I've spent hundreds at this shop even though it is not really my LBS.

So what are you going to DO about this disagreeable situation?

20 odd years ago I worked in a computer/small business network type shop, and we had exactly the same issue with dell, Gateway et al.

We also had people bringing them into fix 6 months later 🙂

wilburt - Member
So what are you going to DO about this disagreeable situation?

Ooooh oooh I know!
Given that the issue seems to be showrooming, how about [i]kill all the showroomers?[/i]

Possibly a touch extreme I grant you, but consider this - If they are capable of the level of base stupidity demonstrated in the OP - do they really have a place in the gene pool anyway?

So there you go, job jobbed. What do I win?

I think this has been covered on a few threads already but the world is changing, peoples habits change and therefore business needs to change to adapt to this or they will go bust.

Look at how supermarkets killed off the local butcher/grocer, Amazon killed off local bookshops, Itunes the CD shop etc.

A LBS cant sit still and play victim because CRC are cheaper, they need to provide something that the internet cant.

Funny enough Halfords seem to be expanding their bike hut stuff at the moment, surely this means there is a market for non internet cycle stuff?

A LBS cant sit still and play victim because CRC are cheaper, they need to provide something that the internet cant.

They do already. They also need people to think it's reasonable for a price to be attached to those things that reflects the cost of providing them.

The fundamental problem - and Halfords understand this - is that cyclists are the worst possible customers for bike shops. Cyclists already have a bike, usually know at least a bit about how to fix their bike, and usually avidly watch the websites and magazines so know where to get parts cheaply.

Yet bike shops still too often try to attract cyclists.

Funny enough Halfords seem to be expanding their bike hut stuff at the moment, surely this means there is a market for non internet cycle stuff?

Perhaps the customers of halfords aren't of the type that are mentioned in the OP. I could be wrong, but I imagine that people don't haggle in halfords and aren't on the whole 'enthusiasts' or looking for discounted high end products. They may even be customers that are deterred from using a traditional bike shop by the prices of the products they stock.

 

As said above by Ben Cooper

Not sure what happened with my quotes.

halfords do click and collect...my lbs has a website with one page?

muddy9mtb - Member
halfords do click and collect...my lbs has a website with one page?

They do already. They also need people to think it's reasonable for a price to be attached to those things that reflects the cost of providing them

A lot don't, they just sell the same stuff as online and hope people use their conscience about paying a fair price for it.

I don't know what the answer is but the LBS of the future need to supply something extra and it should be something that people value so there is no doubt about paying for it.

What I said above aside, I am amazed at some peoples attitudes to the LBS. You wouldn't go into Costa and ask to borrow a mug or use some hot water because you have your own coffee and if they say yes then you will be a customer for life and could buy 10 cups of coffee next week. 😉

The fundamental problem - and Halfords understand this - is that cyclists are the worst possible customers for bike shops. Cyclists already have a bike, usually know at least a bit about how to fix their bike, and usually avidly watch the websites and magazines so know where to get parts cheaply.

Yet bike shops still too often try to attract cyclists.

I get what you're saying there but "Cyclist" describes an awful lot of people from those who've been at it for 20+ years, owned all sorts of bikes and could fix anything with a multi tool, some gaffa tape and imagination to Mr MBR who owns a bike and has read all about the latest cool aspirational stuff, could tell you the list price of every bike under the sun but hasn't yet chanced fixing a puncture or sorting his skipping gears to the born again commuter who knows the colour of his bike, and that's about it...

All of these people are "Cyclists" but all have very different expectations of what a LBS can/should offer, what value that has, and all of them have internet access and a reasonable level of [i]"googlefu"[/i].

So who should they try and attract as a customer?

Do you haggle in halfords?

and forgive me but do you struggle to ask for things in person?

So who should they try and attract as a customer?

Generally people who aren't on STW 😀

bencooper - Member

So who should they try and attract as a customer?

Generally people who aren't on STW

😆

The nearest LBS to me only sells overpriced second-hand bikes and a few low spec components, so there's no real attraction for me. But the other day I needed to use/borrow a really long spanner (did the pedals up too damn tight and couldn't loosen them off again) so had to pop in - it's literally 2min away. The chap was really helpful and did it for free when I was prepared to pay, so I bought the shittiest second hand plastic pedals he had for £5 (to put on an old crap bike I was selling). A fair deal? I actually felt a bit [irrationally] ripped off given the state of the pedals.

I've had a few instances, especially over the summer, where I've been quoted over 2 weeks for work on my bike needing doing. The LBS is like comparing to a car main dealer, a one stop shop for all your needs but with prices to match.
Why then, especially given the increasing popularity of cycling, doesn't somebody fill the gap for the cycling equivalent of a "back street garage", focusing on quick turnover of quality repairs rather than sales ? Maybe not even having a store front as such, supply the basics to get a quick £10-20 repair done and allow the bargain hunters to bring their own bits in.

Off to drop my bike in the LBS for a BB to be pressed in.....

The solution is obvious.

For some, mountain biking is constantly replacing perfectly good components with slightly different ones in the hope that it will make up for dismal riding skills - it's why we see threads like "I fell off on some roots, I need new tyres" or "I went over the bars, recommend me a stem". This has driven the industry forward, but the trouble is that it costs a lot of money so in order to participate these riders need the best possible price all the time. LBS owners just need to somehow convince such riders to only "upgrade" about two thirds as often in order to make non-internet prices affordable, and "et voila!" (as they say in Spain), problem solved.

I wouldn't go into any shop expecting to lend anything without paying.

The shop is there to sell, if you're at a trail centre and need a special tool, I'd sell you one or charge you for the workshop to do it.

LBS can't beat the CRCs etc, they need to move with the times. 💡 One niche for them is to offer the customer the option to buy online, have the product deivered to the shop, and then the shop charge a handling and fitting fee 💡 . I reckon its a future for some shops. A fair few bike shops no longer sell bikes and just specialize on repairs. It also reduces the LBS having to attempt to cover every possible size and spec of part, tyre etc

Funny enough Halfords seem to be expanding their bike hut stuff at the moment, surely this means there is a market for non internet cycle stuff?

Go into any Halfords store and they will price match any of the big online retailers (excluding sale stuff) at the till. The stuff in store is more often than not more expensive than on their own website and ask a friendly member of staff and they will sort you the web price.
Halfords are trying to compete with Wiggle and CRC and they have one thing the big two don't and that's a store in pretty much every town in the Uk. Order online and have it delivered to your local shop to pick up at your convenience. They are open later than the post office and on Sundays. For a fee they will even fit your new parts. They don't always get it right but they are at least trying and adapting to the age of the tinternet. The idea is there they just need to fine tune it.

LBS owners just need to somehow convince such riders to only "upgrade" about two thirds as often in order to make non-internet prices affordable, and "et voila!" (as they say in Spain), problem solved.

No, then they'd just upgrade 2/3'rds of the time and pocket the change or buy something else.

LBS's can't expect people to pay more for parts unless there's some value added (stuff you need there and then and they have stock), if they're not competative then they'll go out of business. There is no logical reason for me to go into my LBS and buy a component that I don't need in a hurry when I can get it cheaper online, and probably quicker if the LBS has to order it. Where LBS's do add value is in clothes and spares.

'Suppourting' your LBS is just bonkers, unlike a butchers or greengrocers that XT chainset isn't better quality from the LBS than CRC/supermarkets, it's just the same chainset, delivered to you through a very ineficient business model. Buying clothes/shoes/helmets for 20% more than the online cost on the other hand makes perfect sense.

The car garage analogy makes more sense IMO, we'll end up going to branded shops (concept stores or whatever) to buy bikes from the big brands, maybe the smaller brands will remain with independant LBS's. Then there'll be the likes of Evans/Halfords/Co-Op/bigger LBS's selling clothes/tools/kit. And 'LBS's spannering bikes.

Also, if my LBS are anything to go by they are staffed by kids more interested in watching YouTube clips of riding than actually selling and often don't really know their arse from their elbow. Combine that with higher prices why should I use them? I have to earn my £. I'd rather give the difference to a worthwhile charity than support an outdated retail model with poor staff.

Now I use them for convienence when I haven't the time, skill or tools to get the job done for when I need it done. If they sort the attitude, staff and prices then I might start using them more often. You have to "offer" something to consumers over and above what the online retailers do. Like I said, last bike I bought was at the LBS but that was only because they price matched online and had it in stock.

There is a mobile bike mechanic round our way. Not used him yet, but a buddy has, prices are very reasonable and he comes picks up and drops off the bike for you. Next time I have a job to do that I can't do myself I'll use him.

The other thing that a LBS could have a look at is the community side of things, one of mine is offering club rides etc... Done well that would build a network of loyal customers who might be prepared to forgo the price differences

One niche for them is to offer the customer the option to buy online, have the product deivered to the shop, and then the shop charge a handling and fitting fee

Yeah, I use the internet pretty much for convenience, if I know exactly what I want and need it before I'll next manage to get to the LBS.

But said LBS, whilst bemoaning the fact he can't compete with the internet on price, does the stuff he does very well at prices generally within about £5 of the best you would find online, and sometimes better. And I always like using him as he does amazingly strong coffee, always gives my daughter a sweetie (is this the wrong way around?) and is happy to chat generally, and about stuff that I'm thinking of buying (from him) next pay day. The shop has an amazing range of tools that I'll never replicate at home (I have most things, but I'm never going to get frame alignment tools etc.) that they are happy for you to use at the shop.

I do sometimes worry whether he makes any money, but he seems to enjoy it.

That said, I wouldn't expect any of the things from most LBSs, and the story of the missing customer cone spanner probably explains why they had a box of customer tools separate from their workshop ones. Inconvenient but not as bad as having to tell a customer that no, we can't fix your wheel this week as some numpty has walked off with our cone spanners.

I'll pay a bit more for things at my local bike shop just because it is my local bike shop, and it helps out my local economy, and pays for people's jobs and mortgages, and families etc.

tis worth remembering this if you expect your LBS to give you something for free or for less than they can really afford - they're usually small, owner-managed businesses and not likely to be paying huge amounts to their staff.

If you just walk in asking for a discount for nothing or use their stock to showroom and then take your money elsewhere, then you're putting them that much closer to not being able to pay a living wage or even survive - times are pretty tight...

I would like a new saddle, maybe one with a cut out and that's a bit lighter than the present one, looking to c.£100 but give or take a few quid.

My choices are:

Wiggle etc - I know I'm going to get a good service and no annoying BS they also have a wide range and good prices but I can't really see and feel the products or try them out but can return one easily if it's not been used.

Bike shop one - they've got a few versions I'm interested in but there badly displayed behind a counter I feel uncomfortable going behind. I ask about them and get responses that contradict the basics I've read on he manufacturers website. They'll measure my arse an order the saddle that should fit but will need to take it up directly with the manufacturer if it turns out to be uncomfortable. I leave and possibly by online, the retailer didn't offer anything I can't get cheaper online. The shop thinks I'm showrooming.

Bike shop two: They have good stock of all the range I'm considering, there well presented and the staff can clearly tell me about the different designs. They even offer a small discount to local club members I which I am which makes me feel valued. Then they offer to let me borrow a test version of the one I think will suit my lardy arse. Boom that's it I'm sold the web can't do that, bike shop two has the sale and the money and a happy customer.

That's the same customer btw who bike shop one thought was a showrooming idiot and is now on a forum moaning about them.

£100 for a saddle 😯

£100 for a saddle

I'd pay that for the right saddle. As a bonus, the cost per ride decreases linearly the more you ride!

LBS have to offer a great service to compete these days as they can't compete on price. BW Cycling in Bristol are a great example of how to do it right in the internet age, offering bespoke services such as bike-fitting, fitness testing and physio stuff.

I booked up a bike fit costing £90 (money well spent) and two months later bought a new road bike at £2,000. I probably could have got that bike cheaper but the fact that I got really good advice from a former pro-rider, free fitting and got to tweak the spec a bit made the whole deal sweet. This satisfaction was then relayed to many others, several of whom have used their services and bought bikes.

£100 for a saddle

10k plus year and to better preserve the function of my man parts it becomes pretty cheap but thats also the reason why a try out adds so much value.

we live in the age of interent, if LBS what to survive, they'll have to adapt. Most peoples who choose not to buy from LBS is because of price, not because bad customer service (in fact the customer service can be outstanding, but most folks can't justify spending much more £ just on that).
Its not just a £5 saving, LBS tend to charge full RRP, or very close to it, and on medium to high end items, it is a lot of money. Yes, LBS have overheads, they don't have such a discounts on products as big companys, but I am sure, if someone wants to, they can be competitive.
For example, join forces with other bike shops in the area and make orders as a one will definetly bring prices down.
Reducing overheads is another way to go. Those are just from top of my head. I am sure, that shop owners can think of something better/different if they want to stay in the business.
In any business, 'If you are not going forward, you are going backward' its true, and LBS seems to be stuck in 90s with their business model and expect everyone else to support them.
If you want our support, make an effort, treat it like any other business these days, be competetive

I worked in "bike retail" for about 2 years. Sold lots of bits & labour.

Sold one bike.

Salesperson I am not.

It's a shame some of the experts on here don't open a bike shop.

They'd make a small fortune....

(Best start with a big one though)

It's a shame some of the experts on here don't open a bike shop.

They'd make a small fortune....

(Best start with a big one though)

Ain't that the truth!

Maybe the experts are making a fortune providing the advice your getting for free but are too stupid to listen.

I've been guilty of this in the past.. But then it's not people like me that are the bread and butter for an LBS is it?
The majority of my LBS workload is from people getting their BSO fixed, serviced, a new brake cable fitted etc
For every cyclist that sources their own parts and does their own maintenance, there are three times as many people who will rely on the LBS to adjust their gears, fix a puncture, source parts and accessories and sell them bikes..

The workshop in my LBS is always booked up solid for days in advance, so I feel no shame in popping in for a chat occasionally, heartily recommending them to anyone that requires their services and just picking up a few sundries from time to time..

If you really wanna be self righteous about the mythical plight of the LBS, you should be looking at forums like this one and the knowledge on offer here which in my opinion causes the most damage to the independent LBS..
I live in a small seaside town and there are three thriving independent bike shops, all doing a roaring trade.. A bit of community spirit costs little and achieves great things, we can't really say the same for overpriced goods