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How much larger do people go when moving to an elliptical chain ring, 32t to 34 or 36?
Macavity - Member
Geoff Apps saysLooking at your chainset, rotating clockwise from the vertical, as your pedal reaches around 30 degrees it enters the power phase where your leg muscles have optimum potential. Power input increases dramatically, reaching its peak about 15 degrees above the forward horizontalHis comments and pictures seem to show a difference in the location of peak ovality. He puts it with crank 15 degrees before horizontal, AB rings seems to have it 15 degrees past horizontal?
CROSSCOUNTRYCYCLE.WORDPRESS.COM Do oval rings wear out/cause problems with Shimano clutches?No. Why would they?
They might (with any design of clutch) if the effect of the oval ring was to vary the amount of slack in the chain slightly as you pedaled as you would have the mech continuously working the clutch, as opposed to only doing so when you changed gear. Thuis potentially wearing out your clutch and losing you energy. But this (change in slack) oughtn't to happen and apparently doesn't (see honourablegeorges reply to my question higher up).
In any event, if you use a clutch mech on an FS bike, specially one with a high (virtual) pivot point, your mech will be sawing about a bit as you ride anyhow.
if the effect of the oval ring was to vary the amount of slack in the chain slightly
Umm if I remember my maths properly then they'll still wrap the same amount of chain in any position so chain tension will remain constant.
I seem to remember the chain on sky road bikes flapping up and down when they used oval rings.
Osymetric rings are not oval! (they're a double cam apparently)
I use Q rings on all my bikes, Got the QX1 on the hardtail and i'm able to push a 34T for XC racing, it's so good. Bit more ovalised than the normal Q's.
I use a double Q ring set up on Shimano crank on the full sus.
An interesting point was made to me the other day, Shimano now acknowledges the point where most power is produced in the pedal stroke by strengthening the cranks at those points, see the new 105 or Dura Ace cranks (4 bolt). That where the oval rings help, you push a bigger gear with less noticable effort, so produce more power for longer. You don't produce power at the dead spot, so just get through it quicker. The real benefit on a MTB is traction, it's so obvious. I've ridden Absolute black too, both excellent.
I'm amazed some people can't tell the difference.
Begs the question: what else haven't you noticed...?
I'm amazed some people can't tell the difference.
How do you perceive it to be different?
I've read that if you can tell the difference then the ring orientation and shape probably isn't right for you and needs to be tweaked.
Begs the question: what else haven't you noticed...?
I also remember reading that there are people who are very sensitive to setup changes and others who aren't. I think it was from the team Sky physiologist bloke. Used Geraint Thomas as an example, where he swapped bikes one race and they accidentally gave him the wrong bike which he rode to the end of the stage and didn't notice it was setup completely differently to his. Whereas I think it was Peter Kennaugh who'd notice if his saddle was a couple of mm off.
if the effect of the oval ring was to vary the amount of slack in the chain slightlyUmm if I remember my maths properly then they'll still wrap the same amount of chain in any position so chain tension will remain constant.
Well not exactly, hence the "slightly", I was interested in whether it was negligible or, er, gligible. The reason for a slight change is the different lengths of the chain runs and angles of wrap of the chainrings (and cassette cogs) as the effective diameter of the chainring changes.
Have run rotor q rings and goldtec wonky rings for for years on the singlespeeds. In fact many moons ago I used to pop up on this ere forum saying that actaully they were rather good, only to be told I was dobber and didn't know what the chuff I was on about.
Suddenly all the enduro gnar monkeys catch up and theyre dead common. Usual convention for ss is to go two teeth up from normal so use a 34 if you run 32 round. Used them with gears but it is much less noticable or perceivable benefit but thats because I'm a beardy luddite andgear danglers are an anathema to me these days.
no problems with chain drop either on a singlespeed you just tension the chain with the cranks at 4 oclock (most oval bit of the ring)
Still got the set up instructions I wrote for goldtec rings somewhere if folks need them.
I'm a beardy luddite andgear danglers are an anathema to me these days.
S'funny, saw you a few weeks back & your bike had gears on it... Over the Chase, by Birches...You were coming down the fire road, I was exiting the final section of FTD, on a SS rigid 29er .. IIRC you did some kind of skid to get my attention.... 🙂
reggiegasket - MemberBegs the question: what else haven't you noticed...?
Those would be unknown unknowns.
good old Mr. Rumsfeld 8)
*waves at emac* that was my Jones chap. No gears on that. In fact no gear dangly on any of me bikes 😀 skid was more of a case of rocket ron rear on loose gravel and not wanting to plow my fat front up your rear end
tazzymtb - Member*waves at emac* that was my Jones chap. No gears on that. In fact no gear dangly on any of me bikes skid was more of a case of rocket ron rear on loose gravel and not wanting to plow my fat front up your rear end
LOL, my mistake, TBH I was looking more at your "f*ck yeah" socks than if you had gears on or not 🙂
I wasn't sure I was able to detect much difference but when I rode my HT with standard rings I noticed how lumpy they felt.
LOL, my mistake, TBH I was looking more at your "f*ck yeah" socks than if you had gears on or not
I love those socks. 😀
For what it worth - I had a negative experience on the Rotor stand at the Cycle Show….I was trying some Q Rings out on the demo (road) bike on a turbo, all set up with power meters and such & I was just about to part with my cash when….the chain came off!
The guy on the stand moved so fast he nearly knocked me off the bike - clearly bad news for them for a chain to come off in front of a small crowd of potential customers! I have to say the experience put me right off which is a shame because the power readings and the general feel was actually pretty convincing….
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Makes their ring about £30.
all set up with power meters and such & I was just about to part with my cash when….the chain came off!
Curious that, was it changing front rings? It can be a bit tricky to set up the front mech properly, more so I believe with the properly wonky ones like the Osymmetric. I've had Rotor rings on the TT bike for a while now and I've never had a chain drop... but then I don't shift the front much.
Not an issue with a 1x setup though.
Interesting to hear these work with SS setups. My mate has one on his geared hardtail. Last weekend he broke his mech hanger and tried to bodge it a singlespeed to get home. The slack introduced by the oval ring meant the chain kept shifting up a cog at the back then getting jammed on the tight part of the cycle. Oval caused him a lot of hassle in the end.
Interesting to hear these work with SS setups. My mate has one on his geared hardtail. Last weekend he broke his mech hanger and tried to bodge it a singlespeed to get home. The slack introduced by the oval ring meant the chain kept shifting up a cog at the back then getting jammed on the tight part of the cycle. Oval caused him a lot of hassle in the end.
Id say that was more to do with inability to get perfect chain length without horizontal dropouts. Chances are he would have had the same problem with a round ring. Although you do get a tiny amount of slack with an oval ring it is not enough to loose the chain provided you can set your chain length perfectly.
They definitely work fine for proper SS or hub gear setups - no tensioner required
Fair point, could be a combination of all factors (oval cog + geared cassette + no dropout/bb adjustment). A proper singlespeed cog is of course designed to hold the chain rather than shift which will give it a higher tolerance for small amounts of slack.
^^^^^ in réponse to @mrblobby above
Yes, I was changing from the small ring to the big ring - obviously a controlled environment on a turbo and on a bike set up by them so you would think it would work particularly well - but it didn't!
I was really very tempted to part with £110 on a set of compact road rings (heavy discount on the stand that day) but was really put off. I have no doubt at all that I was just unlucky and I definitely felt them, in a beneficial way, on the rig they had set up….shame