[Closed] Orange Blood

Mr Nutt - Get a comencal Furious then 😛

oh, or of course a Bottle rocket.

Richyb - yep, I was out last Friday round Hebden. Might sound like a daft question, but was I riding with you? If so, that was a mint afternoon, considering the miserable weather. Can't ride tomorrow thanks to deadlines, and I'm away all next week, but the Friday after I should be riding - hope to see you out again for more of the same.

Ah thought it was you putting 2&2 together, no wasn't me last week, was my brother. I have been out when you have before though sometime early last year I think, a saturday afternoon? I was hoping to come over and ride tomorrow afternoon, but might be best to leave it till next week!

Comencal Furious? damn that's fugly bike!

and what is it with every suss frame (only) coming in at about £2k now??

Thought so Richyb - my mistake (doesn't take much to confuse me!). I remember hooking up on that Saturday afternoon. Shame you couldn't make last Friday - we had a good one, riding some smart but tricky trails. Reckon there's gonna be heaps of snow still tomorrow, but I can't ride anyway. Dan might be out though - worth giving him a call. Sure I'll see you a bit later in the month or sometime in spring. Hope you're well - enjoy your weekend.

Just texted him, lots of snow will be interesting to say the least. Did Dan mention the scottish trip in March, loads of room if you fancy a trail centre weekend (K'tree, Dalbeattie etc..)

Cheers mate, you too.

Looks like an AS-X

Did I invent the short travel rear longer front travel trend?

[img] [/img]

He hasn't yet, no. Sounds good - might be interested, though it depends a bit on work and stuff. Defo can't be away between 14-22 March. Have a good one tomorrow - should be a laugh. Hopefully catch up in the next few weeks sometime.

Ah its 20-21st so no good by the sounds of it. No worries, see you soon.

Somone commented that it would have a rearward axle path but looking at where the pivot is, it must be ever so slightly reaward to beging with, but then moving forward.

Have you sorted out your social lives?
I think I’ve been sucked in here; hopefully I can clear up a few things.
The Blood came about as I wanted a new XC bike. I’ve been messing with different prototypes for about 4 years now and haven’t been happy with them.
The bike had to have about 5 inch of travel and a low BB, any more travel and the bike would have to lifted to give pedal clearance and with this pivot position the rear lengthened to give tyre/seat tube clearance, the tight geometry would be lost.
It had to be able to climb well with 160mm forks and ride downhill like a small DH bike.
As for the putting a pivot on the chainstay, I don’t believe in it.
If you find a Five hard to climb on I think you need more time on a bike.
As for the price, its made in Halifax, unfortunately that costs a little more than in some other countries; also some other manufacturers make more bikes in a day then Orange do in a year.
I haven’t tried 180mm forks on it but on paper it should be OK, it would lay the angles back about 0.88 degree and lift the BB about 7.5mm but I think it would be overkill.
Sanny, I’m still using that bike you rode last year it’s looking battered but is going well.

So the blood is an XC bike?

Cheers for that Steve,

I run an subzero 07 - 011/100 (head angle 67deg) with 180mm 66's at about 40% sag, the forks are effectively running shorter tightening up the head angle a little more and giving really good tracking over the rough stuff. (with 50mm stem, wide bars) it feels about perfect.

The blood is listed as having a 66deg head angle, would I be right in thinking that if I factor in the sag from the back end as well as the longer forks I'd be looking at hugely slack angles?

I love the look and concept of the Blood, any chance of a "long travel" slightly "strange" head angle?

It's an overpriced Transition Bottle rocket with a daft noisy front downtube and a shite short warranty from a company with a poor backup record. You'd be mad to but one.

You can buy a similarly aimed Nicolai frame for less money, which gets you a 'flasher' bike with 5 times the warranty. Go figure.

I feel strangely robbed. I was really expecting someone to be worried by the hue of their blood 😐

Orange Steve you definitely dont have to justify yourself to me however there isnt any shipping,import duty or a far eastern manufacturers profit/cut to pay on these frames. I just struggle with how a aluminum frame can be price-pointed at £1600. The shock costs £300 if bought at retail?

Like I said this is just a grumpy person here. Its an opinion folks, everyones allowed one.

would that be the Helius?

Helius FR £1,550.00 + 5 year Nicolai warranty (although that could be voided with me running 180mm?)

or

Orange Blood £1,499.95 + 1 year Orange Warranty (although that could be voided with me running 180mm?)

To be honest I don't think a 12mth warranty is too little, sure there are bigger firms offering lifetime replacements etc but I'd say that 12 months is pretty much long enough for any manufacturing faults to surface don't you think?

(although I can't help but thinking that Ton was very very unlucky!)

All those negative waves
I’ve just sat on my bike and my wife measured the angles, they don’t change that much if the front and rear sag are set up equally. 67/73 degree’s

MrNutt, agree but it all comes down to the manufacturers confidence in a product and customer backup. Say you own 2-3 bikes (I know some of you due you decadent-lot) then you may only ride a particular frame say 25 weekends (say 40times) out of the year in total?

As for the putting a pivot on the chainstay, I don’t believe in it.

Class!!!

I hope you typed that in a Victor Meldrew accent 😉

I've seen prototypes of this kicking around for ages and seeing as Orange just seem to make bikes that they want to ride themselves - and they always turn out good - I say keep sticking to what you're good at (making bikes you enjoy riding). If the Blood didn't make sense to them - they wouldn't have made it.

I quite fancy one but on a practical note, my Five does everything I need for now...

"If you find a Five hard to climb on I think you need more time on a bike."

Ah, I see. My apologies for implying that the 5 might not suit every single rider on the planet when it's my fault for riding like a knob. Clearly the same was true of the G2 that I never got on with. Presumably the Commencal which climbs in an entirely acceptable way is some sort of aberration against god and nature.

Despite your obvious marketing genius Orange Steve, I'm cooling slightly on the idea of the Blood now. Can't think why.

[i]would that be the Helius?

Helius FR £1,550.00 + 5 year Nicolai warranty (although that could be voided with me running 180mm?)

or

Orange Blood £1,499.95 + 1 year Orange Warranty (although that could be voided with me running 180mm?)

To be honest I don't think a 12mth warranty is too little, sure there are bigger firms offering lifetime replacements etc but I'd say that 12 months is pretty much long enough for any manufacturing faults to surface don't you think?

(although I can't help but thinking that Ton was very very unlucky!) [/i]

That would be a bike like mine, a Nicolai UFO. Available in short and long travel options. About £1.3k currently. You can get the geometry modified to however you like it for a modest cost! It'll give you the frame you want with a far better warranty.

The problem with orange is they have a dire record for breaking DH frames, right through to the current models. Combining that with no back after a year makes them a poor choice. I can't see how the blood will be any different. If orange offered a reasonable warranty I'd change my tune.

Several mates have been caught out by their Orange DH frames breaking just outside warranty.

It might only be a small point, but there is a crucial design feature of the blood that I think really does set it apart from a lot of other bikes out there and that's the combination of a very low (but still 'pedalable' BB), slack head angle and c.130mm of travel.

I own a Nicolai Ion and I just love it. The quality, the cachet, it's performance down hill etc. I love it so much I decided to investigate a Helius AM just because I wanted another Nicolai, so I test rode the bike and here is the crucial problem - the BB is too high. My current trail bike is set at around 13" with 140mm of travel. The Helius is about 13.7" with 150mm of travel and the difference in how it corners and goes DH is quie big. My current trail bike is a much better DH bike because of it.

I thing Orange have designed a really insightful bike with the Blood - it offers something that is niche but which I think we will see a lot more of.

I do agree that it's pricey though but Orange will charge what it will charge and either we will buy their bikes or we won't. If we don't then maybe the prices will come down. The problem as I see it for Orange is that Halifax may well be a more expensive place to build bikes, but that doens't mean they are any better than those made elsewhere although they might well be - I'm just saying that price does not always equal quality. The challenge is to build a brand that allows you to charge a little more, which is what Orange have thus far been able to do.

I have also heard stories about warranty back up being poor. Now that may not be entirely accurate but it's what I've heard and it seems to be what other people have heard, so Steve, you need to get your marketing team onto that and find a way of changing our minds.

A key question is how much would a typical Blood weigh say with Lyriks/Fox 36s and a good build?

Just googled the UFO...11,4 lbs FACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Presumably the Commencal which climbs in an entirely acceptable way is some sort of aberration against god and nature.

it's an overpriced Transition Bottle rocket with a daft noisy front downtube and a shite short warranty from a company with a poor backup record. You'd be mad to but one.

You can buy a similarly aimed Nicolai frame for less money, which gets you a 'flasher' bike with 5 times the warranty. Go figure.

That would be a bike like mine, a Nicolai UFO. Available in short and long travel options. About £1.3k currently. You can get the geometry modified to however you like it for a modest cost! It'll give you the frame you want with a far better warranty.

I still love the way all owners of any bike are prepared to defend their choices. I guess it wouldn't be STW if they didn't 😀

nothing very unusual about that. anything that anyone invests money in after some thought will be defended. no-one wants to think they're pi55ed their money away on a POS. i doubt you'd spend over a grand on any bike these days and come away with rubbish though.

TBH if I was going to spend c1.6k on a new frame I'd chose either a Santa Cruz or Intense VP. I wouldnt buy a 1.6k single pivot frame. The Heckler would tick that box very nicely.

Maybe it's the need to be negative about others choices whilst claiming their bike is 'flashier' is what bothers me the most.

Perhaps it's time to stick to constructive criticism only ?

A Blood frame ex. shock weighs in at 3kg's. The Blood AM weighs in at 14kg's.

Maybe it's the need to be negative about others choices whilst claiming their bike is 'flashier' is what bothers me the most.

Perhaps it's time to stick to constructive criticism only ?

If that is aimed at me I didn't mean to sound like 'flashier' matters but to some people it does. I'd say appearances and 'all the gear no idea' has to be a big factor if you're prepared to buy something so expensive with such poor backup. Personally a bike is a tool for a job and if you only have a year of it being covered it's clearly not fit for purpose. There are plenty of manufacturers out there able to offer lifetime or sensible backup periods.

If the Orange had sensible backup or price my opinion would be different.

The comparison I was going to make to Nicolai was the UFO DS, their lighter short travel bike but I now see it's not in the 2009 product line up so that comment isn't valid. The UFO ST is too heavy to compare as Hora points out.

I'd get the transition if I was after that kind of bike. A friend has had brilliant support when he had issues. Orange really need to address this issue to get good word of mouth recommendations.

I'm not defending my bike choice, I'm trying to stop more people suffering the annoying cracked 18 month old Orange scenario. I and many mates have suffered from broken Oranges.

We all think of cycling as a hobby. What we forget is to manufacturers its a business and businesses exist for profit at the end of the day.
People go on about 'supporting your local bike shop'. Which at the best of times I find abit rich. I have a preferred place where I buy my car tyres and a preferred place for mechanical work. They are preferred as they offer a competitive price and service. Not just price and a good service.
As the economy gets tighter and tighter I do believe theres an opportunity/nay opening for bike makers to become homegrown and offer on price and quality. It is possible to offer both...
May one step forward please. My wallet is ready.

I think you're being a bit naive there, if the manufacturing costs associated with building bikes in the UK and in Taiwan were in anyway similar lots of UK based bike companies would still be building competitively costed UK bikes.

Looking at the UFO DS, it's nice but has a full on 4x seat angle. I wouldn't fancy doing much climbing on it.

Richyb I hear you however there would be other benefits, quicker stock-turn, you wouldnt have as many lost-sales. How many punters wanted a new frame only to be told it was on a container/out of stock or simply checked the website and decided to order their second-choice instead from another manufacturer? Making up the lost sales would also help on costs etc. Are there any EU startup funds for new manufacturing/grants etc available?

sad fact is hora that manufacturing in britain is on it's arse. if you can find someone with the skills and resources to make something properly you'll invariably end up paying a fortune to get it done.
mate and i looked at getting some light housings made a couple of years ago. 3 pieces, machined from ally bar ( nothing terribly complicated ), around 15 quid a piece.
priced for the same work, but tapped holes where required ( 6 ), anodised finished, 15 quid for three, shipped.
i find it somewhat amusing that people are prepared to pay for a bike manufactured in the US over one made in the UK because they perceive it to be of greater value. the same situation exists moving the other way ( ie the yanks would probably buy an orange over a SC ) for the same reasons. it's exotic, innit?

I think the orange is reasonably priced in comparison to offerings from other companies.

I find it quite amusing that some people put such stock and importance in frame warranties. For a start you're asking a company to warrant a piece of equipment that is going to be heavily used, abused and stressed.

They only have your word that you have used the frame within the limits of its design and have fitted parts correctly and designed to work with the frame.

On top of this nearly every single FS frame these days is made from Aluminium, a material that is fairly brittle and fatigues quite rapidly.

Now here's two interesting examples of the value of warranties for you. The rear mech hanger failed on my Litespeed road bike, the frame was aluminium and the mech hanger didn't fail as it should have and it trashed the rear dropout as well.

The frame was in warranty but Litespeed's warranty on that frame was repair or crash replacement. They refused to repair it and instead offered me a cost price Ti frame which was ludicrously expensive.

My mate has a Cove Hummer (Ti frame), which was made by Litespeed. The downtube cracked beneath the gusset and Cove said they'd get it fixed. Six months later he got the frame back, all repaired and as good as new - but in the meantime he was without a bike and six months is way too long to wait in my book (and his as it turned out).

While I'm well aware of Orange's reputation, I have no more faith in them than I do in an any other frame manufacturer on the planet. However, at least they're based in the UK and I can talk to them direct rather than a bike shop or distributor that doesn't have a clue about what's going on and probably doesn't care.

As for the price of Orange bikes. I can only go on the decision I made last year and that was between a Turner Five Spot and a Five, I walked away with a good few hundred quid stashed in my back pocket and a nice shiny Five.....oh and I only had to wait three weeks rather than three months for the frame;-)

I find it quite amusing that some people put such stock and importance in frame warranties. For a start you're asking a company to warrant a piece of equipment that is going to be heavily used, abused and stressed.

Many companies seem to offer frames with warranty and honour it. The OP asked it to be compared to a brand that does offer better support, I felt it appropriate to highlight the difference.

thinking about it my home contents covers my bike for accidental damage, why would I need a warranty on my bike? (just for the sake of argument)

Your home contents policy probably has an excess, and your premiums will end up going up if you claim.