[Closed] on-one doing carbon frames?

aye!!

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Run out of gas pipe innit?

That doesnt look cheap!

it doesn's sound cheap either - tooling & moulds made specifically for them, rather than an off-the-peg generic carbon frame.

maybe it'll be the same as the planet-x frames, custom design and have them built. But waive the rights to the tooling so all and sundry can have them branded up as well to keep the cost down.

So by carbon you're suggesting they mean those gurt big yellow pipes?

Can't wait, a 456 as well...Excited much?

Tooling really isn't terribly expensive if you've got the volume to spread the costs over.

There's a really interesting article somewhere with the guys from Ibis, who did sums, spreading mold costs across 2-3 years when they made their carbon frames, and so long as you can get a good production life out of it, the cost isn't too bad.

Couple that with on-one's direct sales model, and it's quite an interesting proposition for carbon at close to "them cheap frames off ebay" price.

yeah, I know the amortised cost isn't too bad, always a brave move though, in the hope that you can sell enough frames to cover costs etc..

anyways, I'm going to be keepng my eyes peeled out in the peaks 🙂 wonder if they need help testing???!

Carbon 456? That sounds very interesting indeed. Bound to be too expensive for me though 🙁

disc mount design FAIL!

disc mount design FAIL!

Why?

disc mount design FAIL!

how?

er... slotted disc mount with vertical dropouts.

Wouldn't call it a fail, still a usable design with vert dropouts.

as previously seen here...

[img] [/img]

FAIL*2 it would appear.

well, an eccentric hub would work...

Wouldn't call it a fail

I wouldnt want to ride a bike designed by someone who isnt even able to design a disc mount.

well, an eccentric hub would work...

as well as providing an edgy and modern soundtrack to every ride.

and brant's getting his three finger chain stay carbonised too by the look of it too;

[img] ?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1258730862&Signature=c15c%2BY5dhbTmhr5s%2BfQCWIBWapo%3D[/img]

I don't understand the disc mount "fail" claim, looks fine to my eyes, care to explain?

slotted disc mounts are used to allow you to move the caliper to the correct position when you have horizontal dropouts. If you have a vertical dropout you have no need for slotted dropouts. The only exception is where you have adjustable droputs and a disc mount welded to the frame (Current orange P7), the dropouts shown here are just plain incorrect. The fact that the one in the pic i showed (a Ti on-one made by supposed 'masters' Lynskey) actually got made is a disgrace, if you work with a specialist company and they dont spot that glaring fault then they obviously arnt paying attention, you may aswell have them knowcked out in China.

Doesn't it allow for different rotor sizes?

maybe, but in reality it means your caliper is going to move (twist) under braking. Cannondales back in the day used to have slotted disc mounts, nothing but a pain in the ass.

that would be done by the disc adaptor normally as calipers are mainly post mount as std, but yes i wondered that..

Surely the slot is just to allow easier removal of the rear wheel for certain rotor/caliper types?

So it's not really a fault then, after all it doesn't actually stop you mounting the brake, it just a piece of common hardware so you can use the same thing on movable or fixed drop-out designs and hence save a bit of cash, just a bit redundant on this particular design...

[i]I wouldnt want to ride a bike designed by someone who isnt even able to design a disc mount. [/i]

So, not really..Does that make it "Criticism Fail"

after all it doesn't actually stop you mounting the brake

If you wanted a small rotor you prob cant as the extended slots will most likely interfere with the caliper.

Surely the slot is just to allow easier removal of the rear wheel for certain rotor/caliper types?

How could it be easier, its a vertical dropout!

So, not really..Does that make it "Criticism Fail"

He he..

Does that make it "Criticism Fail"

Maybe, didnt realise there will still on-one defenders on here, thought theyd all bought Ragley's now 😆

[url= http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-Black-Full-Carbon-Mountain-Bike-Frame-16_W0QQitemZ220512192690QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMountain_Bikes?hash=item33578d08b2#ht_1301wt_1167 ]cheap ebay cardon frame[/url]

so one could assume more steel 456 price than Ti price....

i thought it might be so you could wang horizontal dropout on drive side and run it ss-where you would need the adjusting brake dropout

Planet X road carbon road frame £400

so sounds good if its a similar price?

font, youd need horiz dropouts on both sides of the frame to move the wheel forward/backwards 😮

Have they posted anything on the On-One site? Can't see anything about it? 🙁

ill forward it you, they are doing carbon 29er wheels (one for leigh)

Try as I might I just can't imagine me, at 17st, successfully riding down Jacobs Ladder at full tilt on a pair of carbon rims.

What exactly is the idea behind those dropouts? I'm with Stato.

Carbon frame looks like a time trial frame for MTB. Which is a good thing.

i know, i mean could the drive side be taken off and a horizontal one added-thereby cutting production costs for seperate ss and geared models and explaining the slidey non drive drop out

of course a pre production graphic may not be the best evidence of what itll actually look like when produced 😉

Good spotting Mr STATOS 🙂 The CARBON 456 is getting "SWAP-OUTS" and are WIP... There are 2x versions SS & Geared(pictured). The Slots should NOT be on the Geared version. The geared version was going to be post mounted, however that does NOT work with SS... The main reason for having CNC machined Swap-outs is to allow for change and "flexible" manufacturing. I am even getting some prices to get these made in small batches in Sheffield. Being small batches we can make them out of ST/ST or Alloy.. Do not worry these WILL be tested. We have a few Carbon things in the Pipeline with a RACE 29er that might get to use Flax/Carbon Technology on some of the models. We have had the nod to use Flax which has better damping properties over just Carbon... Richard Ussher will give these a good hammering.

the non drive ISNT SLIDEY.

think that's your man's point there...

the calliper mount is slotted (so sort of a cheap/crap slidey option) but the axle location is very much fixed.

dont worry guys the frame isnt in production , (and the drawing on the mailshot does actully has the wrong dropout on!) , the swapout dropouts are working ok on the ti whippet prototype , though the whippet was a bit of a porker weighing in more than a ti 456 !

stevo will post a few detailed pics of the dropout designs on the on-one site in a bit

this is early stage stuff , there a far bit of testing and riding to do yet , end dec we will get the first samples out the mold (18 inch) and there will be plenty of chance for readers to come have a go / test .

if anything doesnt work it shouldnt get to production

go on give us some ballparkish ££figures.

ummm.. We have not pictured all versions of the Swap-outs...There are 2 versions 1/ vertical dropout (geared) & 2/horizontal (SS). This is basically a bolt-on version of the Slot-drop out that On-One has used for years. Bolt on allows for "future-proof" and we may even do M12 Bolt through versions for the Carbon 456. All of the carbon frames are getting this bolt-on "swap-out". Basically this allows you to have 2 bikes.. The Carbon 29er will even be able to run SS. We are arranging for 6 bikes to be made up for demo at a location to be revealed on our website news... Pictures of the swap-outs may even go up this afternoon...???

mmm, yes pricing ,

still trying to get my head round pricing , weve got circa 40k in mold costs to think about , however if we sell 1000 frames its only 25 quid a frame so i think we will almost definitely price these extreneky aggressively , again based on our cost to retail business model and with the realisation we need volume to absorb the mold costs

reminds me of the first product we paid a mold cost on , the planet x twistoid pedal , 8000 usd mold cost and we sold around 300 pairs then fasten the pedal company went pop , think the pedals sold for 25 quid

For the carbon frame pricing , whilst it wont be 299 , it will be way less than the 799 ti pricing we just did on the lynskey frames , really not sure yet , if we decide to try to put the rest of the bike industry (with its multi tier pricing) on the back foot , then it should be very very well priced .

Pricing will also depend on how our USA plans go , were looking at going to a wholly owned direct sell set up in the states , this gives us even more volume (but will drain our cashflow) and if we do this we will go in at ming blowing value .

Finally the last big factor is of course whether sterling heads south against the dollar , were currently holding in the 1.60s but im guessing theres a big move going to come against sterling into the 1.40s , if we had enough balls wed hedge against the dollar and fix the pricing but we never get round to it .

Overall Id say well be aiming at going for the most agressive model and 499 is our target price , and thats based on a dollar rate above the mid 1.55s , if sterling is strong the price could be lower .

now that is good news! best of luck and look forward to seeing some protos.

i think everyone just got over their fear of carbon frames... funny how a sticker on the down tube makes all the difference.

daveplanetx - Member

still trying to get my head round pricing , weve got circa 40k in mold costs to think about , however if we sell 1000 frames its only 25 quid a frame

Errm - £40 000 spread over 1000 frames is £40 per frame is it not?

i didnt say 40k sterling , i said 40k , its 40k usd , circa 10k per mold

40k usd at exchange rate 1.6 is i reckon circa 25k sterling

guess some are multi lingual , after 20 odd years in the biz i think in multi currency

So, four moulds. Does that mean a full range of sizes?

Makes sense dave - sort of 😉

Gits, I've only just bought my Ti version...

Ming blowing value? I don't know what that means but I like the sound of it!

On-One started 10years ago with SS and the Carbon Frames needed a replaceable drop-out... so why not make 2 versions. SS & Geared. This also means that we have halved our stock holdings and reduced risk. If no one buys a SS Carbon bike it does not matter because it runs gears with conventional vertical drop-outs. Also there is less weight in this set up than going EBB

makes sense. i like the idea of swapping out and as you say have the choice. tabs for a guide/hammerschmi thingy, nice tidy 1x9 carbon 29er...

Aaaaaarrrrrrrrggggghhhhh stop it! I DO NOT Need another bike 😯

ian, always need a new bike...its the curse.

Mmm 2 useable bikes in one, perhaps I can run it by the other half that way!

in my case 2 useable bikes 1 unuseable rider (atm). btw leigh has bought the banshee paradox, new forks etc...so much for the sultan being the one, he too is cursed

Could be the ideal new bike I was thinking of for next year! Was also looking at a PlanetX timetrial bike.

Can we register interest or preorder for an even better price?