[Closed] Ok, trying to understand 1 x 10...

assuming you went with a 36 rear and, say a 34 front (34:36) you would be losing out from your current 22:32 by a fair amount.

I've just gone 1x9 and have fitted a 36 up front with a 32 rear so if you imagine just losing your granny ring you won't be far off that if you went 1x10 and didn;t drop the outer ring size a fair bit.

really depends how you climb - I spend a lot of time on a singlespeed so it's, comparatively, easy on my 1x9 but I can imagine if I went straight from a triple to just a 36 front I'd be struggling.

Depends entirely on what chainring you choose...

If you do nothing but get a 36t ring (which I use) then your easiest gear will be the same as your outer/big at the moment.

Change to 10 speed with an 11-36 cassette then the lowest will be roughly equivalent to the middle of the block in the inner ring, ie you'll lose the bottom 3 or so gears.

If you fit a small chainring you'll lose top end, but gain easier gears. Up to you.

Use this: http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

Open it in 2 windows, one for your current setup and one for your proposed setup and see what ratios it gives you.

Bunging in your kit, you're currently getting 1.4-6.6 as a range of 18 gears, if you went 1x10 with an 11-36 rear cassette and a 32t front you'd get a range of 1.8-5.9. So you'd lose out both ends with that, you could obviously go with smaller or larger front ring to get a lower/higher gear bias.

Bearing in mind you'll save a bit of weight and won't have to shift up and down a front cog. If you want to try it out, you can get an idea of the range by working out which gears you won't have and riding without using them.

Wow, I have just read all that and can tell each one is correct but my brain feels like its going to explode 😀

I'll have a look at that link, thanks for all the input from everyone. I'll hopefully have my head round this soon enough 🙂

To the OP
Imagine riding everywhere in your 36T ring and 9 speed set up. If you go for a 10 speed cassette you'll have one lower gear to use. Currently, if you drop down to your 22T ring you will be dropping the equivalent of 3 to 4 gears on the rear shifter.

MBalanced - Ok that makes more sense, does lower gear relate to 'easier' or 'harder' gear? It always confuses me which lower relates to in regards to the above.

smaller at the front = easier
bigger at the back = easier

Thankyou wwaswas, that probably explains why I get confused 🙂

Does bigger at the back refer to a higher gear, or lower?

I think the best compromise would be a 1x9 or a 1x10, with a 30 th front ring from hope and the 9-36 rear cassette from hope again 😀

That's a point, when is that Hope cassette coming out?

They started waving it about at shows well over a year and a half ago I'm sure, but i've not seen one for sale yet?

won't 1x9 or 1x10 put a lot of stress on the chain when in the highest and lowest gears? Do 1x9 riders snap chains frequently?

There isn't any 9-36 cassette / hub in production right now. Widest available is 11-36, unless you go custom at £70 per sprocket and get massive 37/38/39/40 tooth dinner plates.

Low gear = easy = big at back, small at front.

Easiest way to compare gearing on same wheel size is ratio.

On your bike at the moment;

22 front 32 back = 0.68:1
22 front 22 back = 1:1
36 front 32 back = 1.125:1
36 front 11 back = 3.27:1

On a 1x10 bike with 32 ring in front and 11-36 back;

32 front 36 back = 0.88:1
32 front 32 back = 1:1
32 front 11 back = 2.9:1

Basically, you would be loosing your 1 highest and 2 lowest gears.

it's in the middle ring position so it's not that much of a bend.

There isn't any 9-36 cassette / hub in production right now.

Forget ratios and all that - inches are a much better way to compare/measure gears. Couple of charts below which may help. Gears given are in inches.
1st is for 11-34 9sp cass 2nd for 10sp 11-36 cass
[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Going 1x10 and using a 36th front ring only makes sense if you are riding on roads, racing down fireroads or you're an absolute beast. Or maybe if you plan on racing some gravity enduros or something.

With a 32 up front and an 11-36 in the back you'll be able to get up most things, especially if you like to stand up and climb. The main times you might miss your granny would be on very very long climbs, maybe towards the end of a long day, or if you have to climb up something that's long with very little grip where you cant use much power.
If your running a 32th chainring up front and spinning your 11tooth cog at the back you'll be going at a fair lick, quick enough for most if you're riding somewhere rough or technical.

Very interesting, thanks or input.

If going 1x10 from 2x9 (basically 3x9 but with a bash ring)looses the lowest 3 gears then it's a non starter for me. I never use the highest 3 gears on the rear. Do I have a 1x option, I am prepared to loose high gears but I must retain the lowest ?

With a 32 up front and an 11-36 in the back you'll be able to get up most things, especially if you like to stand up and climb. The main times you might miss your granny would be on very very long climbs, maybe towards the end of a long day, or if you have to climb up something that's long with very little grip where you cant use much power.

+1 for the above - just trying out 10sp 11-36 with 32 up front myself. Long very steep rough climbs I miss my Granny!

just keep dropping the front chain ring size until you find a ratio that works for you.

although, imo if you go below 34 (or maybe 32) you ought to be looking at why you've chosen to go down the 1x route at all.

As muddyfunster says. You don't really need bigger than a 32t ring. You need to be hammering really fast off road to spin out with an 32t ring. It's easy to spin out with a 32t ring, downhill on road, but that's not MTBing is it. Plus roads are a good place to recover, save your energy.

I run 1x10, 32t chainring, 11-36 cassette, the only things i don't get up is due to boredom or blow up as i've attempted to sprint up in a hard gear. It's a battle for the first month or so, then all of a sudden you'll become one of the stronger climbers in the group.

32/36=0.88 (bloody hate that gear inch stuff, way to confuse the simplest of things, gear ratios)

22/25=0.88 ~ 3rd from top gear on your cassette.

So as someone said above, you'll be losing your two easiest gears.

I climb plenty, and despite appearances, I'm no beast. 34 front and 11-36 rear does me fine.

jambalaya - Member
Very interesting, thanks or input.

If going 1x10 from 2x9 (basically 3x9 but with a bash ring)looses the lowest 3 gears then it's a non starter for me. I never use the highest 3 gears on the rear. Do I have a 1x option, I am prepared to loose high gears but I must retain the lowest ?

5" doesn't sound much difference but can be a killer on a long n steep rocky drag.
I guess you could try not using the 2 last sprockets with your present set up - that would give you an idea of what you can expect with 11-36 x 32.

wwaswas

although, imo if you go below 34 (or maybe 32) you ought to be looking at why you've chosen to go down the 1x route at all.

Save weight off the bike, lose clutter from the cockpit, less parts to break, increased ground clearance, less chainslap/noise, no chain dropping, fewer distractions etc etc..

All the main reasons are still there regardless of what ratios you choose.

I'm very happy with 32 front, 11-34 rear (1x9). I can spin to almost 25 mph and stomp my way up most inclines.

Another 9t option in development

http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Interbike-2011-Day-3,2762/Canfield-Brothers-9-Tooth-Hub,26263/sspomer,2

For working out gearing options I like Ben at Kintetics K-Gear. Save it somewhere, open a couple of windows and have a play with the options.

http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/k_gear.shtml

Forget ratios and all that - inches are a much better way to compare/measure gears.

Why? Gear inches is derived from the main wheel size of a penny farthing. Ratios are just as good, if not easier to understand.

You don't really need bigger than a 32t ring

Personal innit. I'd not go smaller than 36t, if anything I'd go bigger. Don't run out at the bottom end, and could do with more top end on the road to/from the trails and the odd descent.

Thanks for everyones replies 😀

I think the most ideal ratio for me judging by peoples comments would be:

1 x 10. 11-36. 34 or 32 upfront.

If I've understood correctly, I'm presuming 34 will be minutely worse for climbing, but better for downhill pedalling (again to an extreme / fireroads etc). 32 will be minutely better for climbing, but more likely to spin out on extreme downs.

bloody hate that gear inch stuff, way to confuse the simplest of things, gear ratios

Gear inches is derived from the main wheel size of a penny farthing. Ratios are just as good, if not easier to understand.

I agree.

Gear inches are all very well if you want to get into changing wheel sizes and such, but it is not necessary for comparing different size sprockets on the same bike, and is a much more complicated equation. Ratio is much easier to work out in ones head, and to me is more meaningful. Front teeth divided by rear teeth.

Anything less than 1:1 is a very low gear (granny, spinning, winching).

1:1 is low.

2:1 is around about the standard single speed FWICS. Mid range gear. Consider that some mash up hills in this gear, and you may worry less about having that ultra-low granny gear.

3:1 high gear, about 25mph on the flat with a fast cadence.

More than 3:1 is overdrive for MTBs, useful for racing or blasting down roads.

I think the most ideal ratio for me judging by peoples comments would be:

1 x 10. 11-36. 34 or 32 upfront.

If I've understood correctly, I'm presuming 34 will be minutely worse for climbing, but better for downhill pedalling (again to an extreme / fireroads etc). 32 will be minutely better for climbing, but more likely to spin out on extreme downs.

Yes, you are right.

Consider your local conditions, your fitness, your weight, your bike (carbon XC or 6" FS?), the length of your rides, how much road you do etc.

Also consider some bikes will be pushing it to take a bigger than 32 tooth front chainring.

Best bet is to figure out what gears you will loose, and then try to ride for a few weeks not using those gears. It's a bit easier with a 3x setup as all you have to do is not use the front deralleur really.

1x is great, hope it works out for you. I'm running 32 x 11-36 10 speed now, ran 9 speed 32 x 11-32 for a while, the extra low gear helps for longer days, carrying stuff etc. Don't really miss the higher gears, even on road can still fly along on the flat fast enough.

@Nikk

Exactly that, I know changing gears is all very well but health/fitness etc are probably the largest variable.

Bike is an Alpine 160 built 'burly' as they say. But on the current gear set-up I made it around coed-y-brenin (Which will be the most uphill I'll ever do)so I dont think running 32 will take me that long to climatise.

When you say some bikes will be pushing to take a larger than 32 what do you mean?

zangolin - thank you

What crankset would you go for if you were building 1x10 from scratch?

When you say some bikes will be pushing to take a larger than 32 what do you mean?

I mean a 34 / 36 tooth ring will not fit - it will foul on the chainstay if set in the 'middle' position on the crank spider (best chainline).

Ah I understand! Do manufacturers provide this knowledge in their specs? Or is this something people find out the hard way? 😀

Barely noticed going 1x10 over 2x9.
36-32 will haul you up anything at less than walking pace anyway. Might notice in a bit of outright speed or in the road but that's all. You'll need something like the superstarcomponents XCR chain device, to keep the chain on over bumpy stuff.

Hi Takisawa2,

When you say 36-32, do you mean a front chainring of either, 36/34/32 ? Or is 32 your rear cassette 11-32???

I will be running an E-Thirteen guide/Bash set-up.

Personal innit. I'd not go smaller than 36t, if anything I'd go bigger. Don't run out at the bottom end, and could do with more top end on the road to/from the trails and the odd descent.

It is personal, but the posters did make it clear that you only need a ring bigger than 32t at the front if you're a) riding a lot on tarmac and fire road or b) a real beast of a DH rider.

The point being that for anything off road that's more technical than a fire road, 32t front by 11t rear will be more than big enough for most people (especially on this forum).

if you only ride your bike for a couple of hours at a time and no silly long climbs you should be fine with 32x11-36, serious hills or a proper beast of a ride and I reckon you'll be regretting the lack of a granny, how often you do those sorts of rides will decide whether this is a minor niggle or a major inconvenience.

FTR I ride SS quite a bit so no stranger to gurning up hills in too high a gear, but I have a granny on all my geared bikes.

if you only ride your bike for a couple of hours at a time and no silly long climbs you should be fine with 32x11-36, serious hills or a proper beast of a ride and I reckon you'll be regretting the lack of a granny, how often you do those sorts of rides will decide whether this is a minor niggle or a major inconvenience.

Personal innit. Some are stronger than others and can get away with taller gearing. Only you know that.

If I found myself regretting the lack of smaller gears then I'd not have stuck with 1x10 (with a 36t ring).

Some are stronger than others and can get away with taller gearing.

Personal innit.

Running 36/22 11-34 I found myself using the granny at least a few times on every ride, if not more. When I switched to 32/22 11-34 to solve some poor shifting and chainsuck problems I found I didn't use the granny for the next dozen rides, hence I got rid of it and the shifter/mech and added an N-Gear Jump Stop. I'm no uphill speed demon but I can spin reasonably fast and have fairly big thighs so it works for me!

Try swapping your 36 for a 32 and see how many rides you get through before you resort to the granny, then you'll know if 1x9 or 1x10 is workable for you.

yeah but a beasting is a beasting, if you do plenty of rides when you're on your arse for the last couple of hours....well I for one would like the easy option to be available

But whilst some may struggle on a certain ride (and be glad of a 32 or a 22) others will be fine!

Try swapping your 36 for a 32 and see how many rides you get through before you resort to the granny, then you'll know if 1x9 or 1x10 is workable for you.

Do your stop screws on your mech too so you have to stop and adjust to get into it, unless you're very strong willed you'll just bail out into it if it's there, whereas you'd probably just push on with a single ring.

But whilst some may struggle on a certain ride

But I'm arguing semantics/defining my point, as we both agree the pros/cons of 1x10 are a personal thing.

I'm far from fit but after swapping from a tripple, then to a 22/36 double and now to 1x9 11-34 32, there is not much i can't get up where I ride. And i'm not bothered about spinning out on the road, but its fine for a steady pace. Had to lighten the bike to help compensate, mind but moreover think more about how i ride and use my gears.

Ok think my decision is final then 🙂

Does anybody know if my Saint rear derailleur will be fine with 10 speed?

Also, the difference between 1 x 9 and 1 x 10 with the same front chainring, does the 10 give an extra lower gear, or an extra higher?

Thanks

Does anybody know if my Saint rear derailleur will be fine with 10 speed?

No, you need a 10 speed specific rear mech, or a road flat bar 10 speed shifter.

Also, the difference between 1 x 9 and 1 x 10 with the same front chainring, does the 10 give an extra lower gear, or an extra higher?

Potentially either, but generally low. You can get an HG50 9 speed cassette in 12-36 (but they weigh a ton), or various cassettes in 11-34, 10 speed comes in 11-36.

Personal it truly is, but have you considered going 1.5x10?

Leave the granny ring on and chose the 1x10 that looks ideal.

Remove front shifter, cable and Mech.

Granny and bolts = ~30grams.

Use your right heel to kick-down to engage granny and cruise the lung-buster.

Put chain on the larger chainring manually at the top whilst getting breath/eating/drinking.

Too simple?

PaulD

Potentially either, but generally low. You can get an HG50 9 speed cassette in 12-36 (but they weigh a ton), or various cassettes in 11-34, 10 speed comes in 11-36.

You could cobble together an 11-36 9spd without too much difficulty...

Does a saint mech stretch far enough for a 36t sprocket?
---------------------------------------
hold on does that mean that

This: [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=69502 ]Tiagra 10spd flat bar shifter[/url]

plus

This: [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=69268 ]SLX 10spd Cassette[/url]

And my current 9spd SLX mech would allow me to run 1 x 10 without needing to buy a new "Proper" 10spd rear mech? or would I need to go buying new jockey wheels?... Might just be easier to go 1 x 9

c,

You can substitute the 12T for an 11T with its specific lockring for a 9-speed Deore based 11-36T 'brick'.
Saint will cover a 36T sprocket.
The Tiagra 10-speed bar shifter will drive the Saint for a 10-speed cassette.
Jockey wheels will be OK with a 9 or 10-sp chain.

So, what about my 1.5x9/10 idea?

PaulD

No chain guide, so the chain will be all over the place.

You can substitute the 12T for an 11T with its specific lockring for a 9-speed Deore based 11-36T 'brick'.
Saint will cover a 36T sprocket.

But you then end up with a jump in the block, right where you don't want it.

hold on does that mean that

This: Tiagra 10spd flat bar shifter

plus

This: SLX 10spd Cassette

And my current 9spd SLX mech would allow me to run 1 x 10 without needing to buy a new "Proper" 10spd rear mech?

Correct.

But you then end up with a jump in the block, right where you don't want it.

Standard HG61 goes: 12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36

switch the 12 for an 11 and you get a 3 tooth step at the tall end, hefty I suppose but then that cassette already has several 3 and 4 tooth steps from the middle to the top the fact is that any 1xn drive train will need to have big steps in the gearing to get that wide range, 10spd doesn't cure this either.

I could be tempted to bastardise an HG61 as it's the absolute cheapest route for me to get an 11-36 cassette, but I can certainly also see it being less than ideal for the type of riding I do and I'd only wind up reverting to 2 x 9 until something a touch broader ranged becomes more widely available...

10spd doesn't cure this either.

Not strictly, you always have bigger jumps at the top, but the gaps are much 'nicer' with a 10 speed 11-36 cassette: 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-36

If you're happy with that jump then a bodge certainly will work.

Well I can't see why you couldn't use a 9spd mech with a 10 speed shifter.

There isn't any 9-36 cassette / hub in production right now. Widest available is 11-36, unless you go custom at £70 per sprocket and get massive 37/38/39/40 tooth dinner plates.

Shimano capreo is 9-26t (9speed) but requires the capreo freehub - this might fit other shimano hubs.. you could by muxing cassettes built a 9-36

though 11-36 should be enough!

Well I can't see why you couldn't use a 9spd mech with a 10 speed shifter.

Different cable pull, same reason you can't mix SRAM/Shimano. However 10 speed road is the same as 9 speed MTB, so they're cross compatible.

Shimano capreo is 9-26t (9speed) but requires the capreo freehub - this might fit other shimano hubs..

Nah, axle and everything is different, and as the freehub's a different diamter you can't combine with 'normal' sprockets to get a lower gear.

I like what Hope are doing, but I can't help but think the chain will feel horrific on a 9t sprocket.

Well if the hope cassette ever get to maket 9-36 equates to a 400% gearing range where 11-36 is a piffling 327%...

Capreo is intended for HPV/20" folder bikes and is a miniature nightmare for MTB use due to the special freehub body and the fact that you are stuck with the bottom 3 sprockets (9-10-11) theres a company called ICE doing a special 135mm spaced capreo cassette compatible hub* for ~£90 but then you have to buy a Capreo 9-26 cassette (~£55) and then either pull apart some other 9 speed cassettes or order single sprockets to assemble a bigger range one. So i actually winds up costing a small fortune!
so far as I know the best anyone has managed is a cobbled together 9-34t (9speed) apparently, which sound great but isn't really much of a range improvement over 11-36 is it...

*(Shimano don't do a disc hub for capreo, and although I've seen it suggested that a Capreo free hub could be cobbled onto a shimano disc hub, I've not heard or seen any real evidence of it really being done...

Specialized had a test bike using a capreo based 9-34? cassette knocking about over a year ago now (Article still on pinkbike I think) but again that was a custom FH body machined for them by DT....

It's certainly mechanically possible but Shimano themselves clearly are not going to make it easy to get a 9-36t 400% cassette and everything else out there looks like a relatively expensive bodge...

Nope the Hope concept is actually the "Best" way to achieve it, but you still can't buy bloody one.

Different cable pull

Sure they'll still be available for a long while - or you can just use 10 speed road stuff!

Nope the Hope concept is actually the "Best" way to achieve it, but you still can't buy bloody one.

I'd rather see 11-38 I reckon, really not sure what a 9t would feel like.

I tried resisting the urge to drop to my 24t inner from a 32t middle (11-36 cass) - when I first got my 5 with it's 10 speed gearing. Whilst it was possible for me to ride most stuff around here (morzine, lifts closed), I would only ever be able to do it if I was either one my own, or totally unsociable and ride off the front of the group I was with - the time spent waiting at the top was also spent getting my heart rate back down to normal!

Then I thought to myself - fxxk it, I'll stick with 2x10 thanks. If I lived in Dorking then it might make more sense for 1x10, or if it was an Enduro race bike perhaps... but other than that, I like my knees too much to get drawn into it. The 9-36 hope cassette does look promising though... could drop down to a 30t ring and be done with it.

My patriot on the other hand is 1x9 and only comes out when there's uplifts involved. Then the climbs aren't so long or it's hike a bike territory.

Thing is if you want the same gearing range that a 9-36 would offer but keeping an 11t as the smallest sprocket, you'd have to got up to 44T at other end to achieve the same range on a single cassette...

Effectively that means 2 teeth off the bottom is worth 8 more at the top, literally dinner plate terretory, theres always going to be issues surrounding chain wrap, frictional losses, wear and drive efficiency but you're not actually going to pedal everywhere on that 9T sprocket are you, and TBH I doubt it's actually noticably worse than an 11T

You'll extend the available gearing range, mechs don't need to get any bigger, weights stay about the same (possibly go down a tad) and we're all that little bit closer to 1xn Nirvana, Hurrah!

All we have to do is make one already quite small part a wee bit tinyer...