Hora, FFS, just take a few pictures of the bike as it is currently set up and let's have a look.
Picture / 1000 words and all that...
I'm 5'2" and currently using an 80mm stem on a 44cm frame - and I'm toying with the idea of trying a 90mm stem, can't believe someone of over 6ft is using such.
was the bike paid for with Mastercard, because this is priceless.
Another +1 for taking time to adapt before throwing money at the problem. As a recent born-again roadie I am far more flexible with much better core strength than when I started, my road bike has a much greater drop between saddle and stem than it started with not because of slam-that-stem fashion but because it is now more comfortable like that.
And another +1 for bending the elbows, novices (road and/or MTB) often seem to ride with arms locked straight which is poor for both comfort and control.
The only 'money' Ive 'thrown' is a cheap stem.
Im not a stereotypical STWer. Im tighter than a Ducks-butt. Dont worry. I dont buy new frames and sell a week later like others on here. There will be a solution found quickly.
I'd like to read this thread back over in about another 500 miles of Horas riding it as it is. 😉
I dont buy new frames and sell a week later like others on here.
😯
😕
The only 'money' Ive 'thrown' is a cheap stem.Im not a stereotypical STWer. Im tighter than a Ducks-butt. Dont worry. I dont buy new frames and sell a week later like others on here. There will be a solution found quickly.
£10 of that stem money would have gone towards a proper bike fit or at least biscuits/beer for expert advice (not anecdotal on a MTB web forum). But seeing as you have indicated a solution is imminent I presume that has been booked already.
http://www.bikeradar.com/commuting/gear/article/core-training-for-cyclists-41207/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bike-Fit-Optimise-performance-avoidance/dp/1408190303
it won't be solved in a week but sort the core excercises and work on fit
Buying a stem is not throwing money at the problem
I had a thought that made me smile.
Just imagine Hora trying to get a bike to fit Hora Jnr - Hora style levels of indecision on bike fit along with varying dimensions of the rider over time. This may cause the Internetz to explode 😆
Just post some photos. What happens if you ride with a decent bend in your arms? Can't support upper body?
As has been said, sounds like a long stem with quite a bit of rise, and maybe some spacers under the stem, would do the job. Unless it is way out you'll be able to make it fit. You'll probably find you end up lowering it back down gradually after a few months of riding.
Heres an option for you Hora..
Take the Drops off, fit flat bars, lower the seat a little and add a 60mm stem, stick some 30mm tyres on it and use it to commute on.
Or
Turn the drops upside down al la 70's kids racer'esque and ride like that.
😉
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Turn the drops upside down al la 70's kids racer'esque and ride like that
Good advice right there,some of those paper boys are pretty quick ,even with a bag full of Sunday Times.
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Here it is!! I sneaked into his hotel room while he was asleep 😆
Eh?? Reeeallly??
Looks fine from the 11 floor..
WhatchaonaboutHora?? ❓ 🙄
FFS Just post a pic of yourself on the bike, sideways on.
And keep an open mind about the responses.
before throwing money at the problem
was a mainly reference Hora thinking he needed a new XL frame, but
Buying a stem is not throwing money at the problem
it is if he buys a longer stem on some aribratry "its the right length" basis, and ends up buying another 2 before he finally settles on the original as being right all along now hes got used to it...
I dont think I need a XL. I think I need to work on contact areas/setup as mentioned above. I didnt have this issue on the old steel 57 (?) road bike before so unsure its core.
Im not posting a pic of me on the bike. That be photoshop/internet gold..
Exactly. Which is why you need to post it. The old badger tubeless pumping meme is getting verrrrrry long in the tooth...
^^Phew, for a moment I thought the internet would break, Thanks 😉 😆
As mentioned .. Stretching and core work will sort it out..
Nemesis that image crossed my mind 😉
Ive just done 4hours on my 'wrong size' mountain bike. Those that stick to manufacturers recommendations on mountain bike sizing need to get out and experiment more... it aint shoe sizing afterall. If you put me on a large or XLarge Santa Cruz Id hate it. 8)
Road biking is different kettle of fish to off road sizing IMO.
[i]Im not posting a pic of me on the bike[/i]
Don't flatter yourself buttercup, we just need a picture of the bike, side on, so we can see the setup.
Funny how Planet-X would recommend a new frame, hmm no vested interest there at all. 🙄 Don't give these idiots anymore money.
But seriously move the seat forward, before messing with stems. I just did this on my road bike and it's now freaking awesome, and I don't get back pain after 40 miles like I did before. Nothing else changed it's still the same bike, seat, stem, bars etc.
Oky doke will do later post another fettling spin.
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Binners wins the internet today.
genius!
Proper giggle.
😆
www.flickr.com/#/photos/30625376@N06/14434950631/
Cant link images on my phone but I notice my saddle is angled too much? Which would mean slide/having to prop against bars?..
This pic is max spacers. Next one is 5mm down
Linky no worky
Das Linky unt busted. 😥
Sort that seat angle out. It's tipping you forward, and putting all your weight onto the wrists. I'm inclined to feel this thread is also at an angle, tipping us onto your setup, with a big reveal coming.
Assuming you are serious. Your STIs really shouldn't be pointing at the moon, either.
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/30625376@N06/14434950631/
Surely this is a wind up? That seat angle? I'm surprised it's not putting your chin on the stem!
Other than that, the bars need turning down, the stem is too high (but if it's comfy...it just looks shit) and generally, the whole perspective of the saddle height and stem makes the top tube look short.
I would say the bike Is too small for you. It should be long and low.
I still think this is a wind up. The saddle angle is too obvious.
Make it stop.
Looking at the pic it looks immediately obvious?? I was so intent on sorting my sitbones/avoiding cock pinch.
Nice matching bottle though
Not being funny Hora, but in your opening post you said that you'd had a bikefit. Wtf did they do, if your saddle is at that angle, or was that just a bit of licence?
Or are you trolling?
Make it stop? Dont read or post then. Simple.
Not being funny Hora, but in your opening post you said that you'd had a bikefit.
Obviously, that was for another bike.
As an aside, Brant is strangely absent from the thread.
*plays x-files theme tune*
My eyes!
OK...
1) Set the saddle horizontal and in the middle of the rails, not rammed forward like that.
2) Set the bars so the top bit is actually flat when viewed from the side, that's pointing skywards.
Then go from there getting the saddle height correct then moving the seat forward/backward as necessary to get to a point where, with the pedals horizontal (3 o clock/9 o clock) your knee is directly over the ball of your foot which should be directly over the pedal axle.
That's the base position from which you can take everything else.
When you're on the bike with your hands on the hoods in a normal riding position, have a look down at the front hub. It should be obscured by the bars. Again, all of the above is guideline rather than gospel but it's the starting point for all the adjustments.
Not surprised you're in pain from that, the saddle is pitching you right down onto the bars...
Also, your back yard needs sweeping, it's looking messy along the fence line.
Vinney no the fit was on a jig last Sat. Bike was 200miles away at home.
Pre purchase it was me on rollers trying a large then a xl with the salesman advising large.
Owwww! Bike looks too big, not too small 😉 . Set the saddle back on the rails so the peak is 5 cm behind the BB (it's 73 degrees after all), and [b]level, definitely level[/b]. Sit on it with your shoes on and heel on the down pedal. Leg should be almost straight. That will get you close to reasonable height (88% of inseam from BB is my guide). Now pedals level and take the weight through your legs as you lean forward. Knee over pedal at 90 degrees? Should be close for most people. Lean a long way forward. Weight should still be through your core and legs.
When your saddle is in about the right place, we'll worry about bars. But as Jamie says, the angle isn't bad, but the shifters are all wrong
From your picture, you've shorted the reach by moving the saddle forward and rotating the bars. Neither is desirable.
The [b]real[/b] issue though is the bottle. It should be white.
Flatten the seat angle, fit a 120mm stem, turn the bars round so the levers are vertical (or slightly tipped up at most), sell it and buy the next size up.
Bottle was a bargain shop buy. Will sort a white un 🙂
Tired will make adjustments and re run route tomorrow night.. cheers guys.
Whoever set that bike up should be punished by riding it.
Aah, so basically they just measured you for a frame size.
My advice, book a proper session with the bike you own. Without any experience yourself you could be ****ing around for months trying out different things- this way you'll be set up at least fairly decently.
a couple of newbie roadie/triathletes I met this weekend have saddles like that, arguing it stops them putting weight on their family jewels. Saddles are designed to work level, and if youre sitting on your tackle your rotating your hips forward rather than bending at the waist, which is a flexibility issue. Funnily enough one of them is complaining of shoulder and neck pain.
So, as above, saddle and bar tops level (which will put the hoods about level).
Set the saddle back on the rails so the peak is 5 cm behind the BB (it's 73 degrees after all)
"peak", do you mean the tip or highest part?
Buy a big box of biscuits (not broken ones) and/or some beers (not rubbish so premium imported lager or real beer in bottles) go to your LBS and say "I am fully aware that I have bought a bike purely on price elsewhere and i now realise that was the wrong thing to do but could you spend half an hour with me sat on the bike and sort it out for me please?"
Because that pic is a joke.
Bottle was a bargain shop buy
Something tells me if the next frame size up/,down was £10 cheaper the pic of the bike would look even more moronic.
peak = front. Saddle peak will be about 5cm behind the BB axis. It is a better measurement than saddle position on the rails because it corrects for seat tube angle. A one degree change in seat tube for my 74 cm saddle height is 1.3 cm on the rails. So two bikes can have the same rail position but be out by nearly an inch due to geometry differences.
crazy nails it really, Hora is so far away from a good neutral position that any rough guide will be an improvement!
Good call from TiRed and Mr CraaaazzzzzeeeeyyyyLegs so I'll refrain.
I'm not even going to take the piss, no, no I'm not. You know why? I think Hora will follow the wisdom and unabridged helpfulness that abounds here and the genuine open honesty.
Have fun Hora, life will be much nicer once you sort that jaunty angle out.
😀
Surely the front of a saddle is the nose?
Have you got any experienced road riding sorts you can meet up with who can just help you get the bike properly set up in the flesh, away from any retailer? Just getting bars, STIs and seat all set up properly will probably do the trick, it's no wonder that thing's uncomfortable!
Oh. My. Goodness.
Mark - as this calls for proper names.
Saddle is totally messed up.
Nothing explicitly wrong with STI's like that really, other than looks, but, with the saddle slammed forward too suggests flexibility issues that just say "stretch" to me.
Knowing your preference for "small" mountain bikes, I can only assume you prefer a very upright position, and aren't suited to a moderate reach on a road bike.
I think a sort of "Dutch" bike might be more up your alley.
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I really cannot think of a way that the bike can be made to be more uncomfortable.
Edit: Well...
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😀
Surely the front of a saddle is the nose?
Doh! of course it is. Been a long day.
You also need to get the rear qr in between the seat and chain stay. Then you need to sell it and buy the next size up.
You know a bikes bad when no one sees that and notices the QR's
Edit: Dammit! Foiled by the glitchy page bump! And thats a bit freeky.ll
How much are the purple seat toppers ???
😆 ****ers. Cheers ****ers 😆
Are your brakes undone too? ❓
My eyes!!!
Whoever set that up should be shot or at the very least banned from ever owning a road bike or offering advice on how to set it up!
MTB saddle? WTB Silverado by the looks of it (could be wrong though) about the most uncomfortable saddle possible on the road IMO, but great on a MTB.
I'm not going to go into the saddle angle, position on the rails, bar angle, Sti angle etc etc.
Although biggest issue of all surely has to be the skewers-pointing backwards on the rear & the lever on the wrong side on the front? You deserve to be uncomfortable riding it in that state.
Last night I felt like I could ride forever, not at a fantastic pace just forever if that makes sense. I'd changed my saddle to a Charge Scoop and after moving the saddle nose to 5mmish behind the BB- it felt too far back so tapped it fwd just a smidge and it clicked. 🙂
5 mm-ish or cm-ish? I'd be surprised if you can achieve 5 mm setback. Any change in saddle height? And yes, when it fits, it should feel effortless.
Now onto the bars; hands on the hoods. Lean forwards into a slight aero tuck, you should have an elbow bend of [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/duncanschwier/14244148690/in/set-72157645194146285 ]90-100 degrees[/url]. Bar to saddle drop is entirely personal. Reach is not.
Possibly think the saddle is a smidge too low now. Not a biggy but can be slightly higher.
From memory- c5cm setback(which felt wrong).
Bar to saddle drop is entirely personal. Reach is not.
I disagree, bike fit is personal. There are rules of thumb and all that jazz, but nothing about a bike size is definitive right/wrong. Even saddle height some folk will choose a few mm +/- 'optimum'.
MTB saddle? WTB Silverado by the looks of it
I recall Hora had a "what roadie saddle" thread? I love Silverados on my MTBs to the extent I stockpile cheap used ones. Tried one on my road bike and it didnt give enough support, felt too soft and baggy. Currently have San Marco saddles on my road bikes (Ponza on winter bike, Spid on summer bike).
bike fit is personal
Sorry terminology, I was using "reach" as in how far I reach over, not the new-fangled-cervelo-favoured definition. Basically you should have a little kink in the arms when leaning over onto the drops to be comfortable.
Fit is personal, but the principles undelying fit are not. I'm sure we agree on that.
Trouble is that you'll always find exceptions to 'underlying priciples' - bio mechanics, circumstances and genetics are complex and provide for a huge number of scenarios that differ from the norm.
Absolute statements are rarely right, just about right for most people and a good starting point for most.
The Silverado- haven't tried it on the MTB yet. Didnt like it on the road bike at all. Then again I didn't like the Scoop on my mtb.
I've always loved WTB's on my mountain bike so its going on there this weekend..
What I do want is a anodised orange stem....seen one in a roadbike mag ad this week.
Who cares if it looks garish on a baby blue frame. Its my bike so piss off! 😀
Sorry terminology, I was using "reach" as in how far I reach over, not the new-fangled-cervelo-favoured definition. Basically you should have a little kink in the arms when leaning over onto the drops to be comfortable.
I realise, but it's still not as definitive as there being a right and a wrong fit. I suspect my road bike is too short by all 'rules' - the front hub sits some way in front of the bars when I'm on the hoods (wtih a slight bend in my elbows albeit not 90-100 degrees), but I find it perfectly comfortable, I like the handling and I'm not hitting my knees on the stem or anything, so why would I change it!?
You've been very vocal on bike fit before, I believe it was that unless you're spending 50% of your time in the drops the bars are too low? I really don't think it's as clear cut as you seem to think.
I also ride a bike that is, according to a local LBS, "too small". It isn't.
Orange stem & baby blue bike will look nice, it'll look like a 70's racing car..
Whats the name of the oil company that painted thier cars blue and orange??
Look preety 😀
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Gulf!?
**Jamie to the thread please** can we photoshop Hora onto the car or sommat please!?
hora, you will not achieve this look with a P-X and an orange stem....(Gulf inspired one-off paint job).
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I thought there was a bit of a consensus on the saddle thread that the best roadie saddle was "your MTB saddle, obvs" which is why I commented that it wasnt the case for me, and specifically with a Silverado. I'm less than 70kg and found it didnt give me enough support on the road bike.
I use different saddles on road/MTBs, generally have done. Toupes on the road, did use them off road, but broke several. Different position after all, so stands to reason you don't want exactly the same.