[Closed] Not just what you ride.....Best AM Frame??

Nicolai Helius AM - no i dont own one but would like to.

turner 5 spot. Great riding frame, handles downs as well as the up's, not too heavy, great customer support. Think you'll never regret it

nicolai helius fr
heckler

owned them both, sold them both......... 😐

but both very good...........nicolai edges it tho.

The new carbon nomad and mojo HD are going to be pretty special I reckon.

Mmmmm....the Nicolai look a bit on the ugly side (IMO), but seem to pop up quite often???

Raddogair - I'll take a look at the 5 Spot?

ton - Member

nicolai helius fr
heckler

owned them both, sold them both.........

but both very good...........nicolai edges it tho.

Ton...why did the Nicolai edge it? I have a Heckler at the moment and do love it, but it is the 3rd I've had and just fancy a change?

Nomad or Blur LT or Mojo HD

Blur lt2/c
nomad mk2/carbon
Mojo
Intense tracer
Turner 5 spot

tools!

[img] [/img]

Prophet MX

Seriously though, does anyone believe this question is even worth asking, apart from spotty 12-year-old Top-Trumps-playing boys?

Turner 5 Spot - no question.

I've had 3 of them.

Also owned Spesh SX Trail, Kona Coilers (x2), Spesh SX Supercross, Commie Meta 5, so have experienced a few...

Turner beats 'em all.

I test rode an Orange 5, a Blur lt and a Turner 5 spot today....brilliant service from Mountain Trax near Swinley -

my findings

Orange 5 - good in a comfy armchair kind of way. Swallows up all the tiny bumps but not as good on square edges and not as alive. Muscling up short stuff hand far more bob.

Blur and 5 spot had some very similar characteristics. Both felt far more like a hardtail in the twisty stuff - I couldn't tell the suspension was working, it just smoothed stuff out a bit but you could still feel what was under you. They both climbed quite a bit better and put up with a 14 stoner getting out of the saddle for short power climbs without massive bob.

For me, of those 3 it will be a blur or a 5 spot - just down to fit now...

The yet to be released Chumba Evo looks good.

[img] [/img]

- 68 degree head angle with 140mm fork; 67 degree head angle with 160mm fork
- 13.3" bottom bracket height with 140mm fork, 13.5" with 160mm fork
- 150mm of travel
- ISCG 05 mounts (Hammerschmidt compatible)
- Expected weight 6.3 lbs. without shock

Rickos, did you spot the image of the proto evo in this months dirt mag? It was in the crank bros article at the back if one if the shots!

hopefully the yeti asr-5...

giant trance x advanced sl frame... fantastic suspension platform and superb giant carbon. tad pricey, but not as bad as the SC Nomad will be or a mojo.

Ooh that Chumba looks pretty nice.

Si?

cynic-al - Member
Seriously though, does anyone believe this question is even worth asking, apart from spotty 12-year-old Top-Trumps-playing boys?

al...........why the **** do you come on a mountainbike forum..........you miserable ****er........ 🙄

and to answer the op, the nicolai just felt a lot more robust and put together. a bit like a heckler doing some big weights....... 8)

like a heckler doing some big weights......

A heckler doing big weights already exists its called a bullit. Best AM bike around, climbs like a 4 wheel drive and descends like magic carpet. Here's one of mine.

[img] [/img]

And here is the other.

[img] [/img]

nice it is too.
i do wish people would not post such pictures tho....my wallet is trying to open itself.

Someone's got to ask teh sensible questions!

ton - Member

nice it is too.
i do wish people would not post such pictures tho....my wallet is trying to open itself.

Thanks.

Sorry, I have to share the love. 2nd hand bullit frames are cheap as chips. 300 notes with 5th element coil shock. Loads of em about.

Cannondale prophet with a PUSH Van R

Cove Hustler, yes I own one but that's because it's the best 🙂

For best AM it's Blur LT2c

Hustler her too. I did think the 5spot was was great......until I tried a Hustler 😛

Ibis Mojo
Yeti 575
Turner 5 spot
Heckler

Not in that order

How are you defining all mountain??
Able to climb/ascend mountains, alps rockies llangeda???
Able to descend mountains??? pyrennes dolomites, apennines lee quarry?
able to pedal all day?? like 4 to 8 hours or chairlift to top
Weight of....30lbs/35lbs/40lbs/??
How much travel? Air or coil shock as that affectes things
personally then i would consider
Turner 5 spot dw
maverick ml8
old turner rfx horst link
ibis mojo
dialled alpine
chumba xcl/vf2
owned only 2 of those

NOT (for me)
Bullit climbed like a pig with a bloated gut
Blur LT2 did not like suspension
Yeti 575.......felt compromised suspension
Intense never got on with the sizing
orange 5 or patroit not a single pivot fan at all dead wooden
owned all of the above

I really want to like Chumba's but would find it incredibly hard to ride something thats named like something I just dropped in the toilet! 🙂

Ooh that Chumba looks pretty nice.

That is the early proto of the new generation EVO. Finsihed frames will have a similar top and down tube to the VF2 with beefier tubes. It's a multi link bike too. Chumba decided it's time they had a go with a multi link design, they are not dropping the horst link frames though (thankfully imo) just looking at others options to get into the market.

I should have one of 5 finished proto's by the end of May 🙂

cynic-al - Member

Seriously though, does anyone believe this question is even worth asking, apart from spotty 12-year-old Top-Trumps-playing boys?

What it must be like to be the worlds leading expert on all things mountain bike eh? 😕 For your information Al I am nothing like a spotty 12 year old (although if they want my advice I would be happy to provide it!), in fact I'm 37 years old and looking for some constructive feedback, because unlike you I have not ridden EVERY mountain bike that graces this earth! Oh what it must be like to like in your world!!

cynic-al - Member

Someone's got to ask teh sensible questions!

And that's you is it? You really are deluded! All you ever do is seem to crash other peoples posts and act the fool, maybe its because you don't really have a clue and that's the only way you can get involved.

[b]
To everyone else except Al[/b], thanks for your feedback, there a few bikes that have come up more than once, so time to go and do some research on them and see which would suit me best. But quite fancy the Mojo or SC Blur lt2c??

PS: In future Al, don't bother replying to my posts - your just wasting your superior brain power & time.

si - didn't see the photo in Dirt. I got all that from the Chumba blog.

How can any Nicolai be any good when the decals are designed by a dyslexic, and nobody else in the company has ever noticed it and corrected them?

Nomad. (yes I own one)

Chuck on the DH wheelset it'll do the Alps/Uplifts, AM wheelset trail centres.

That's all I change on it.

ive ridden a few bikes but for all mountain its got to be the titus el guapo,

it rides everything very well and is very stable in the air and very confidence inspiring,a bit pricey but very well made,with the right kit can be a all day bike or bike hit bike

indeed titus supermoto or el gaupo

Another vote for the Nicolai Helius FR (rode mine to work this morning 🙂
The Chumba's look noooice too.

AM? AM indeed.

ALL of those bikes look too heavy to pedal up hills. All of em. (with a couple of exceptions)

IMO AM seems to refer to either people that live somewhere flat and tell you 'it really pedals well up hill' or people that ride DH at half the speed they should, because they brough their 'AM' bike and not their DH bike.

**** dragging any of those suggestions round the peak. Or wharnecliffe. Or anywhere that goes uphill for more than 30 seconds.

If you need 6 inch of coil travel front and rear to ride 'aggressive xc' then you need to up your game.

tracknicko.

Whilst I think in true stw stylee you are slightly over egging your point - you have a point! The 3 bike I rode yesterday (see above) quite frankly felt slightly ridiculous at Swinley forest. I would have be just as happy with a competent hardtail or a stiff shorter travel bike. I think am bikes could be seen as a bike great for (amongst other things) not so fit/skilled riders who don't get out much where the bike can compensate for your unhoned skills - and where is the harm in that?

Living in the South, I would not be considering one of these if it was my only bike but fortunately I have another hardtail that shall share duties with this (potential)one. There is no doubt though that as my personal performance capabilities drop off and I ride less frequently I'll be glad of a bike that fills in the gaps for me and is also capable enough to just about withstand that trip to the alps I've always promised myself. Also, I don't know how long you have been riding mtbs but I first tried a longish travel bike 7 or 8 years ago - it is amazing how much more "all round" they have become in that time - no longer does it feel like you are riding a wollowy bag of spanners of old and some of them really do climb so much better than bikes of this ilk used to.

I disagree tracknicko. If 35lbs is too heavy you need to up your fitness game!
I spent a long weekend in the lakes for the first time recently on my beefed up Reign and climbed those hills no problem. Coming down them was ace too

Who's the bigger troll on this thread - Cynic-Al or tracknicko. I like them both, but there's only one way to find out...

FIIIIGHT!

damn. have I chomped?

OP my point is that your question is subjective and also depends on what terrain you ride and how you ride it.

Therefore the question, and any answer, that don't take into account these factors, is meaningless. I know I'm happy with my bike, but I'm intelligent and honest enough not to purport to have authority to put forward any answer to your question, and I would say the same even if I'd ridden lots of "AM" bikes, which I haven't.

END OF THREAD.

Carbon Nomad
Titus El Gaupo
Yeti 575

I dont have any of them but they have all good reviews (except the Nomad but hell its not going to be a duff bike..)

cynic-al - Fair point, well presented.

al, to sugest we only discuss things with which can be answered with a definite answer seems silly, no? 🙂

Cove G-Spot FR - will get one later this year
Tracer VP - best climbing bike I've had but hit limitations on the downs
Uzzi VP - currently loving this bike and will use it at the Mega
Nomad - had a hire in Moab two weeks ago and it was amazing
Nicolai AM - thought this would be great, but wasn't

OK, OP - where/what do you ride?

Indeed my good friend si - it's just a poke at the question/answer thing.

35lb is too heavy. 6 inch is too much.

you know it, i know it.

Come on Al, remember at the end of the day it all boils down to whether you have a Chris King headset or not.

Al - well put. However.....

Whilst it would be foolish to say that there is one bike out there that is best for EVERYONE, it would not be unreasonable to suggest a bike that is particularly good for a particular subset. e.g. good for shorter/larger/lighter/heavier riders; good for rocky locations; good for stronger out of the saddle type riders; good for spinners.

I guess the problem is that the permutations of subsets is endless which is in the end why there are a plethora of bikes on the market that sell in profit making numbers.

tracknicko - Member

35lb is too heavy. 6 inch is too much.

you know it, i know it.

Might be too heavy or too much for you but I'm in this for fun. I like the going down, and I like my bikes to be oriented for that, for me AM is any burly full suss bike that can have the saddle high enough for pedalling up and enough gears to suit steep climbs. Some peoples idea of fun is climbing, fair enough but for me its a means to end.

I guess the problem is that the permutations of subsets is endless which is in the end why there are a plethora of bikes on the market that sell in profit making numbers.

I guess the problem is that the permutations of subsets is endless which is in the end why there are a plethora of bikes on the market that sell in profit making numbers.

35lb is too heavy. 6 inch is too much.

you know it, i know it.

This guy knows it

Cedric Gracia was racing his 7inch full suspension bikes on world cup downhill courses only a few years ago.

If you need 6 inches of travel to go out and ride xc then your either lazy/shit/kidding yourself

This is getting quite philosophical!

yay! someone onboard.
here's how i see it.

i have a trance. i love going downhill - hell i race DH all summer long... i sold it and got a reign to have these magical 2 extra inches.

you know what? even though they were essentially identical, with the same kit on...
the reign was just that wee bit heavier/taller/bigger and never felt as fast up OR down.

i'd rather have a shorter travel bike and rag the crap out of it, replace a few bits every now and then, than lug around a 'hardcore/freeride/AM/huck machine' just so that i could 'enjoy' the downs...

davidtaylforth - Member

35lb is too heavy. 6 inch is too much.

you know it, i know it.

This guy knows it

Cedric Gracia was racing his 7inch full suspension bikes on world cup downhill courses only a few years ago.

If you need 6 inches of travel to go out and ride xc then your either lazy/shit/kidding yourself

Ohh harsh. I'm not Cedric Gracia, I'm just little old me and lazy/shit/kidding myself is probably about as accurate as it gets. I wonder if you posted that to make yourself seem amazing, I'm sure you can fly past me up and down on a fully rigid single speed so ****ing what. Are you s good as Cedric Gracia, I've never heard of you, maybe you are kidding yourself?

i'd rather have a shorter travel bike and rag the crap out of it, replace a few bits every now and then, than lug around a 'hardcore/freeride/AM/huck machine' just so that i could 'enjoy' the downs...

Cool, thank heavens the bike manufacturers have cottoned onto this and make a bike for you and a bike for me. What lovely happy world we live in.

let the e-riding begin

I was just adding fuel to the fire. Im shit, but I ride a hardtail so its ok.

The debate comes up again.

Frankly there is no such thing as an all mountain frame or bike. All bikes can do everything. They can and they have, just with different degrees of success.

Ultimately an all mountain style bike is actually one massive compremise, because it does not excel at anything. They jump ok, climb ok, and descend ok. None of them climb amazingly, non of them descend amazingly and none of them jump amazingly, sorry they just don't.
However they are able to jump, climb and descend well enough to mean you can use them for doing all those things without breaking the bike or yourself, and therefore only need one bike, in theory, especially if you have adjustable suspension.

Given that your are talking about 5 to 6.5" travel frames then I would go for a Nicolai AM, yeti 575, Orange 5/apline 160, intense 6.6, gaint trance X/reign X, Turner 5 spot. In that order.

Owned them all, stuill got one of them but will be advertising on it here this weekend, as I have gone back to what I used to ride when I lived in Canada.

davidtaylforth - Member

I was just adding fuel to the fire. Im shit, but I ride a hardtail so its ok.

yeah and me (fuel to the fire that is). I'm shit and I am apparently overbiked, which appears to be a massive crime against something..

The other day I took the estate car out for drive without filling it full of luggage or driving around the estate, I must have been overcar-ed.

look. getting aside from any possible im better/your better type thing...

for me its as simple as tyres and wheels.

if you want to genuinely go downhill fast, i think you need a stronger wheelset, and ideally 2ply ST tyres. these things make the difference far more than a couple of inches of travel.

for me, going downhill fast is ALL about grip.

but fitting these make the bike SO much harder work to drag around. so you dont and then you have a halfway house. with capable frames, and sketchy pumped up hard fast rolling tyres slipping out on every root/rock...

I think me and Mr Taylforth were having a comp to see who was the shittest...

And also geometry. You can ride a hardtail fast down a hill if the geometry is right.

But your right, good tires are key. My bike feels a bit shit with single plys cos i have to run them at about 45psi. Dual plys are so much better.

Ultimately an all mountain style bike is actually one massive compremise, because it does not excel at anything. They jump ok, climb ok, and descend ok. None of them climb amazingly, non of them descend amazingly and none of them jump amazingly, sorry they just don't.

I can tell you're not a Spesh Pitch owner...... 🙂

speccy pitch with xc tyres still wont descend that well. maybe better than other bikes. but still not properly fast...

It wont jump well either, full sus bikes are shite for jumps. Thats one of the reasons i went back to a hardtail.

Nothing more frustrating than having a good day riding the glentress xc on your full susser. Then going and having a go on the freeride park, nowt worse than wallowing about in inches of rear travel trying to do jumps

TS. but i think a lot of peoples ideas of a bike jumping well might be different to yours...

take a pitch to a bmx track. they (like all full suss bikes) DO NOT jump well.

cynic-al - Member

OP my point is that your question is subjective and also depends on what terrain you ride and how you ride it.

Therefore the question, and any answer, that don't take into account these factors, is meaningless. I know I'm happy with my bike, but I'm intelligent and honest enough not to purport to have authority to put forward any answer to your question, and I would say the same even if I'd ridden lots of "AM" bikes, which I haven't.

cynic-al - if you had answered the question in anyway, I would have been happy to listen to your opinion/ experience - however, you didn't? You just poke fun as normal? With silly pictures & comments that puts the thread into some sort of spiral downwards - thanks.

I currently ride a Heckler & ride all sorts of different terrain - for example: From Dartmoor, to Les Gets, to California single track - the bike needs to be the true meaning of 'All Mountain' and cover ALL terrain.

I was merely looking for a wide range of 'opinion/ experience' led suggestions, from here I would investigate further as to which best suited - as I too have the intelligence and the experience of riding for many years too both, decide & research the best bike for me - but opinions & experience are great to have in your armory when deciding.

Once again, thank you to all those that have replied - I am just an MTB enthusiast that wants to build a great bike for myself to enjoy.

boo hoo. read some magazines then if you cant take a bit of light hearted banter.

What he said, with a dose of "get over yourself".

Anyway I will reveal my answer:

I ride a Heckler and IT IS TEH BE5T BIKE IN TEH WURLD INNIT. Gets ridden old school and gnarly, long and short, in the air and on the ground, Scotland and elsewhere, with my average skilz, I've even overtaken GLupton.

I tried something else then just bought another one as I missed it so much. So I say stay with the H.

Blimey, the fashionability of [b]Lapierres[/b] didn't last long, did it?!

Zesty or Spicy, depending on your All Mountain requirements... (Swinley and AM?? 😕 )

❓

tracknicko - Member

boo hoo. read some magazines then if you cant take a bit of light hearted banter.

cynic-al - Member

What he said, with a dose of "get over yourself".

Anyway I will reveal my answer:

I ride a Heckler and IT IS TEH BE5T BIKE IN TEH WURLD INNIT. Gets ridden old school and gnarly, long and short, in the air and on the ground, Scotland and elsewhere, all my average skilz, I've even overtaken GLupton.

I tried something else then just bought another one as I missed it so much. So I say stay with the H.

As for the "get over yourself" - what are you talking about? I do not need to...I am in a forum looking for advice and it seems that it is not always that easy because people ruin your thread and quite frankly it can be majorly annoying! I can not believe how difficult it is to ask a simple question and get a simple answer on STW sometimes - when I respond I respond because I might be able to help in some way, if not I don't - simple is it not?

As for the after advice re the Heckler - thanks - I have always been worried about coming away from the Heckler after so long riding one, but just fancied a change and wondered what other peoples opinions/ experiences where.

Thanks for the advice everyone who gave constructive feedback - I have enough to be going on with now and this thread has gone not in the direction I clearly intended too. THREAD ENDED.

you ****ing 'asked' me, you asked everyone on the forum.

and FYI i think al was sayng that it was 12 yr olds responding with 'my bike is best bla bla bla' not that you were a 12 year old for asking.

tracknicko - Member

you ****ing 'asked' me, you asked everyone on the forum.

I meant - who asked you to join in on the insults.

Its an online forum, you dont need to be asked to join in, you just do it man.

It sounds like you've got alot to learn about the internet, and life in general

Sorry friend, I do think you should take things a little less seriously!

Getting narked at my pic of a duff bike is not going to increase your happiness, and I am always going to post one!