[Closed] North Face Trail, Grizedale - most disappointing trail ever?

I think you might have got lost a great xc trail which is steadily getting more natural as there is very limited trail maintainace.
You have to work on it but has some good sections and when linked with the other trails makes it a good blast.
Would be a bit peeved if I had drove there in my Audi and paid the parking f
ee 😉

I've done it once a few years ago. It wasn't the greatest trail for sure. Technical difficulty seemed to be generated by making the boardwalk sections out of the shiniest wood they could find and having some of the corners off camber. And it did have a lot of fire road

Cyflym Coch at CYB was pretty uninspiring. Lovely trail centre overall though

Would be a bit peeved if I had drove there in my Audi and paid the parking fee

I did feel for the 4 guys who headed to start the route as I finished (a mojo, two 5s and an SB66) since there were quite a few puddles on the trail, I wonder if they turned back? 🙂

Coffee from the wee cafe was nice and the waitress was pretty, probably the most enjoyable part of the 90 minute "adventure".

Have to agree with the op here, I feel it's a great opportunity missed. TNF could be a great trail centre trail, but its been very badly designed IMO.
I only use sections of the trail to link the good bridleways together, missing out the fire roads.

Well is certainally less dull than not going for a ride IMHO

I quite like it really, although its not up there with some of the others for best man made trails. Maybe its because its the first proper MTB ride I ever did?

Good points - the views are stunning, and the fireroad bits allow you to look at them, the first climb is quite interesting and better than a fireroad slog, and last descent is quite fun. Its not Glentress of CyB and I don't think its a 'destination' trail, ie one I'd drive a long way just to ride. But if you add in the other stuff in the Forest it can make for a very fun day out.
One suggestion is the first two sections up TNF, then the Parkamoor Descent to High Nibberthwaite, back into the forest, upto and the down Breasty Haws and back up to Moor Top, then stay on the top to The River or the new black, back along the forest road and the last descent of TNF.
Or as I did a few months ago, along TNF all the way to Moor Top, then did the short Grizedale route in the Vertebrate Graphics book (The River, down to Satterthwaite, upto and down Breasty Haws and back to Moor Top) and then finished the last two sections of TNF. A good day was had.

I did notice one section of TNF was temporarily shut, and the diversion was up and down a fireroad

I also agree with the OP, except I can't even remember the views being that great! We'd done Whinlatter the day before which was on a different level, one of the best TCs I've ridden, just great fun. Grizedale was a huge disappointment as I was hoping for more Whinlatter-y fun.

Definitely not the greatest, but it has it's uses.

I get the impression that when it was built it kind of missed the point - why put a mediocre man-made trail in an area where there's so much outstanding natural riding? It's like the Chewbacca Defense - it just doesn't make sense.

That said, I find the first climb useful as a bit of a warm-up and to gain some height quickly if I'm going to do the Parkamoor routes, plus you can use bits of it to link other stuff together and I suppose it gives noobs/less confident riders the chance to get out and about.

Wasn't overly impressed by the fire-roady bits round the back. Maybe we missed a section?
Last bit from top carpark back to the centre was OK. Did that again, mainly cos we went and tried some of the other coloured easy trails. First bit was alright too.
Ideally we'd have used bits of the red to link up with bridle paths and Parkamoor or somewhere, but the day we rode it was a kind of last minute thing with no maps and no local knowledge.

Contenders for most disappointing trails? By far the most disappointing for me was Cannock Chase. After everything I'd read and heard about it I was properly looking forward to it, but I couldn't have been less impressed if I'd tried. No offence to the trail builders and the hard work that people have put in, but I didn't enjoy it at all for some reason.

He was warned you know, but still he did it. 🙄
So much good stuff in the area and none of it on the NFT

Personally I quite like the NFT for blatting round full gas on a hardtail (and I was riding the natural Grizedale trails long before it was built). It's also great for adventurous newbies to trundle round and do some "proper" riding that isn't groomed to death like most trailcentre Blues.

I can see how the six-inch-skill-compensator [*] brigade might be a little disappointed though. Horses for courses.

*Yes, I do own one of those myself as well as the hardtail...

I like the NFT, some great sections, need to ride it twice though as its a bit out the way and not the longest. Maybe I'm just too easy to please, I just like riding my bike.

Apparently there's some great trails coming off the route, which is great to know now

Nice to know you actually read the thread you started last week...you know, the one where half the contributors were telling you about natural Grizedale riding...

We often stay in the area so its convenient for a quick hour blast. If I'm doing a bigger ride around there then I'll use bits of it - the first climb (as climbs go) is great - more trail centres should have climbs like that instead of using fire-roads. I'll then usually head off up towards Parkamoor Farm on the BW and then descend down to Satterthwaite etc. Coming from the other direction I'll sometimes come up from Hawkshead and then pick up the last few sections from Moor Top towards the visitor centre. Its a shame that the bits between the top of the first climb and after the car park on the Coniston>Hawkshead road rubbish - like peterfile says, loads and loads (and loads and loads and loads) of dull fire-road slog with the odd bit of fairly uninspiring off-road.

Again though, and its a comment which comes up time and time again in Grizedale discussions, the natural riding around the Grizedale/Satterthwaite/Sawrey/Claife/Hawkshead area is outstanding... Need to get over there again ASAP.

I don't think it's too bad - good but not too difficult singletrack at the start and throughout the second half, but too much fire road in the middle.

As everyone points out, if you get hold of the map you'll find there is a network of excellent and challenging bridleways with several of the best descents in the Lake district. The only problem is that some bits are getting overgrown because not enough people are riding them.

Any other contenders for most disappointing route?

Dalby Forest 'red'. I would rather scoop out my eyes with a rusty trowel than ride it again.

What's the 'black-section' at Grizedale like?

Jeeeeeesus wept!!!!

You are a fool.

Message ends.

You were warned...

Grizedale NF was actually good fun when I was there at Easter in the snow. Cutting fresh tracks onto the boardwalk - from about 10 seconds in on this

I rode the black section last time I went there. I enjoyed it, but its very different from the rest of the Grizedale stuff. Its a lot more obviously man-made, with jumps, table tops etc. I'm not really upto most black runs, so I think this one is a bit easier, although one corner was very steep and intimidating (too me).
It is very short, and quite hard to fit in with a TNF loop. I think I actually preferred the adjacent bridleway (The River Bed), which I hope doesn't become too busy with people pushing or riding up.

For info it was one of the first in England and was a bit of an experiment (with mixed results). It's a bit naff by todays standards but you can use it to stick other bits together.

Most disappointing route? Easedale [shivers].

I'll still never forgive you, though.

That is my o/h, over halfway around TNF trail, 4 months pregnant and successfully still under the illusion that we're just out for a gentle pootle. It's that dull.

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+1 for Dalby Forest's Red, aka "No Reward Hill", attached to "Flinking blip, that's an expensive car park"

Nice to know you actually read the thread you started last week...you know, the one where half the contributors were telling you about natural Grizedale riding...

To be honest, most of the replies conflicted each other and pretty much none of it made sense to someone with no local knowledge.

What I took out of that was Grizedale = great. So I headed to Grizedale with the limited time I had and the route I did was shite. Nothing in the thread said "Don't do the TNF Trail".

I also found it a bit dull, I rode up to it from the south of windermere on the bridleways, they were ok but nothing great. The NF was as described, lots of bits stuck together none that particularly impressed. I am a big fan of the Marin in North Wales which gets accused of the same but the difference is the Marin has a very natural feel and is more like a genuine old trail through a forest (with the odd bit of fire road). That might be the age of it. The NF is all very managed and doesn’t feel particularly well thought out.

If they took the better bits from Dalby and made them into a, say, 20km red route it would be a fun half day out. But padding it out to 35km makes for a lot of dull bits and a lot of effort for not much fun

Don't right off Grizedale after one ride on TNF. If not a local get hold of the Vertebrate 'Lake District Mountain Biking' book which has a few rides in Grizedale on the natural stuff. All very easy to follow with the book, and the signposts on the ground. If you download the forest map from the web you can easily see how TNF, the forest roads and bridleways link up and can mix and match.

I agree that if you don't know the forest then some of the suggestions can be hard to follow

Don't right off Grizedale after one ride on TNF.

Nah, don't worry, the area looked awesome, my issue was just with that particular trail. There just seemed to be so much around, yet the route just took me on a fire road around it all 🙂

I thought it had the best cake of any trail centre we have been to. Chocolate biscuits with mint icing ftw.

Nothing in the thread said "Don't do the TNF Trail".

Well, I did, honest..and if we'd have suspected that you were considering TNF regardless, we'd have driven home the point. Too busy telling you not to bother with Walna Scar, I guess, and arguing over the relative merits of Grizedale and Dunnerdale. I blame that stabiliser dude. 🙂

You can comfort yourself that as you plodded around endless fire road and boring boardwalk, the forest gems, were lying just a few hundred yards away. And will still be there next time you pop down.

TNF is still better than Dalby though (this is me advising you not to bother with Dalby, BTW).

+1 for Dalby Forest's Red, aka "No Reward Hill", attached to "Flinking blip, that's an expensive car park"

I don't think they charge for parking?

That's good to know. I'm now wondering who were the buggers who took £7 off me when I went?

That's to use the forest drive which every motorist pays, parking or not. It's free if you cycle in tho! 🙂

I was knackered enough after 24 rather dull Dalby miles. Can't imagine how I would have felt after cycling there and back from Skipton. 🙂

I would certainly be looking for alternative parking if I ever suffered amnesia and headed back there.

🙄 at this whole thread. 😀

at this whole thread.

It's your fault too. Don't think you can roll your eyes and pretend you didn't tell the OP to 'do some trails in Grizedale..'. 🙂

Who? Me? I said 'around'! 😆

Well I enjoy it it's funny when you leave a trail a while then go back and see how your fitness has improved.

We were up the other week did the NFT, then to visitors centre for ice cream 😀 Then all the way up to High Parkamoor then the run down to Satterthwaite loved it.

They could do a lot more don't get me wrong but there is plenty thee for a good day out.
First half of Winlatter's North Red trail leaves me cold TBH but each to there own 🙂

I usually stay away from Whinnlater and the nft ,as the natural trails are so much better, the only bit of the nftt i thought was pretty good was the last descent back to the car park, but even that has lost its flow and needs some serious repairs to make it fun,There was quite a few riders walking down it saying it was too rough a couple of weeks back,this is really bad for cycling as trail centres are a good starting point to getting newcomers into our sport,at the moment its putting people off.. 😥

Agree with Gav to drive to the lakes to do that would be a bit pointless though some of the BW are nice and its ok as part of a loop on to the natural stuff

Whinlatter was better but its right at the other end of the lakes and I need to drive past Skiddaw to get there so i will never ever do that again

Junkyard - lazarus
Agree with Gav to drive to the lakes to do that would be a bit pointless though some of the BW are nice and its ok as part of a loop on to the natural stuff

BW loop in the planning stage for Aug/Sept 😀

Does all this " there are better trails in Grizdale" not all depend on the "visitors" skill level, experience, map reading skills etc ?

Fair point to say they are to attract others and i go with my kids so they are useful introductions I agree

drive to the Lake District, only to ride a trail center? Chortle.

I wasnt blown away with cyb. I went thinking it would be on par with glentress and inners but was a bit dissapointed.
Not nearly as dissapointed as i was with dalby after a mate told me it was proper well good

I really like grizedale the natural stuff is well worth a ride. The north face I thought was pants though.

I found it dull on a crosser never mind an mtb but then I am a trail god.

I've done the good stuff in Grizedale and I've done the NFT. No question the other stuff is better, but the NFT isn't crap. It's one of those trails that you need to put a bit of effort in to to make it flow though I think. I can see that if you stroll around it it'll bore you but if you do it as a blast it comes into it's own. That was my experience anyway. When I do it I usually park up and ride over Iron Keld, round the trail, then back to the car.

I love Whinlatter, again it's a great place especially if you have a blast at it, but the descents are better than at Grizedale. People would rave about them both a lot more if they weren't surrounded by The Worlds Best Riding, I think people lose a bit of perspective that way.

There have always been several problems with the North Face Trail in Grizedale, and these do need to be addressed.

The trail was built a long time ago now, and to be honest after it was build, not much else happened. There wasn't really the interest from the FC to do any sort of maintenance, and certainly no investment. The landscape of mountain biking was a bit different then, and it was kind of left alone by the locals who knew where the better trails were, and regarded as a bit of a tourist only trail.

This is sad, as it's not really a blue where beginners can cut their teeth as a good introduction to mtb, but neither does it live up to high expectation from the fantastic BW network surrounding it, and so it has become a bit of a rough diamond in the forest, and has taken an even harder battering online, which even I sometime feel difficult to properly defend.

Traffic and weather have really taken their toll over time, and some of the more fundamental problems, too much fire road with not enough payoff, lack of flow, rutted corners and braking bumps, lethal boardwalks and high car parking fees at the visitors center, MUST be resolved if it is remain as a viable option for both visitors who want to maybe try riding mountain bikes for the first time, and for more seasoned riders looking for a quick adrenaline fix.

So, if this is the present what does it mean for the future ?

The black trail has been a big success. Remember, the FC had zero interesting in doing anything for years, so to have someone there now who is receptive to building new trails in the forest is a HUGE step forward.

Some boardwalk sections on the NFT have been upgraded with better slip protection from the elements, and rock steps have been put in to avoid the bogs. But some things have been done very badly. The new bridge across the river coming down from Moor Top is far too narrow to ride, so you actually have to stop and push through. It's these things that can really alter to flow of a trail and start threads like this

There are plans to do more digging in the forest, hopefully to add another top section to the black, a proper blue graded route, and more importantly lots of repairs, and some new singletrck sections to the NFT, cutting out some of the fire road.

There is a big BUT here...

There will probably not be any sort of funding from the FC to carry out any of this work.

The black section was entirely built and funded by volunteers, and took about 1 year to complete. If we want to make the NFT trail a much better place to ride, then it will more than likely be up to us to pick up tools and get busy. The more people I can help to recruit, the better it will be and the quicker it will get done.

Digging and maintenance will probably start up again over winter. I will post again here when it all gets going.

When the black trail opened, there were a lot of people saying on here " it's boring ", or "there's not enough rocks ". Well, if you want more rocks, bigger berms and more singletrack, then it may well be up to you to turn up on Sunday morning to help move rocks and dirt, to build the trails you want to ride.

There is a positive future for the NFT, but it may be up to you to help create it.

You are a fool for not buying a guide book though OP, look what you're missing out on.

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The guy I met walking down there in cleats, pushing a carbon hardtail 29 wasn't having the best day. Poor bugger was trying his best to ride it, but was bouncing like a pinball off the rocks. 😆

This thread makes me want to try the NFT to see what it's actually like.

The TNF isn't that good, the first section is ok as climbs go, the descent from Moor Top to the cafe is ok. The bit in between is fire road rubbish. I'm not even sure it that good for beginners, you kick off with a long and (for newbies) stoney climb which requires some technique. I know a few who have been put off by it.

However, if you put some time in to work out where the good bits of natural stuff are you can use bits of the TNF to advantage on your own loops.

Not sure if this was mentioned on the other thread but it is quite useful for plotting routes round the forest:

http://www.ridethelakes.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=704

I like the first section of TNF as an alternative way up towards Parkamoor and the last descent is fun if you've just come down the riverbed section and are looking for a way back to the VC.

As said above, it's not that bad a trail, I've certainly ridden much worse. And it still has an important role to play in introducing people to MTB in a controlled way. If anything, future trail development could perhaps reflect this.

Why doesn't the FC promote various BW loops around Grizedale taking in the best bits - is it a liability thing if someone smashes themselves up on an 'endorsed' trail?

This thread makes me want to try the NFT to see what it's actually like.

I wouldn't bother, it's shite 🙂

Come up to the Highlands, we've got loads of good stuff, you don't even need to worry about doing "cheeky" runs, we've got decent access rules too. I'll send you some gpx files with routes if you like 🙂

Also, if you decide to visit a trail centre in Scotland, you might want to drop down a grade just till you get a feel for it. A red in scotland seems to be a bit different from a red in the lakes. 😉

I kinda like the North Face myself. Partly as it is so close and fits into my life (cheeky stop off on the way home for a quick ride), and given a bit of effort there is some flow to be found.

The only problems of late are the closed section of singletrack which is bypassed by a massive fireroad section and has been for months, and the narrow bridge already mentioned which pretty much wrecks the final descent.

That said it would be great to see a lot more development of trails within the forest, it seems to have so much potential for some really interesting trails possibly incorporating or adding to the "natural" (which I rarely get time to ride just now).

I wish I could spare the time on a Sunday morning to come and help out, perhaps by the winter things will be a bit more settled and I can manage it. With a baby and toddler though time is a very, very precious commodity. This time poor situation has pushed me more towards riding TNF/Whinlatter/Gisburn more than I would like since I tend to be working near most of them on a regular basis.

When I was just getting into Mountain biking a few years ago I was surprised to come across a section of the North Face getting built. My eyes lit up, and it was so cool to see purpose built tracks being built in the local forest. I knew little about such things as trail centres at the time, and you could say it helped push me further into the mtb world and got me hooked.

Back then as a noob rider I really enjoyed it, but as my horizons expanded to other trails I realised that TNF wasn't really that good. The recent alterations haven't really done it any favours either (those boulders and bridges urgh!)

It is unfortunate to read comments that say 'Grizedale' is rubbish when they actually mean TNF. It's a shame that a forest like Grizedale with so many quality bridleways can't utilise them to make a decent red route.

Also good to read your post trailofdestruction, it would be great if Grizedale can get a volunteer group sorted much like Gisburn down the road has done so successfully. I can understand money is tight within the Forestry commission but it would be good to see them putting the high parking charges to use on new or existing trails (and not more boulders!! I'm sure the recent 'improvements' haven't been designed by mountain bikers)

Come up to the Highlands, we've got loads of good stuff, you don't even need to worry about doing "cheeky" runs, we've got decent access rules too. I'll send you some gpx files with routes if you like

Are you trolling now? The riding in Grizedale is absolutely superb - some of the best I've done anywhere. The NFT is a good way of linking up the best stuff but that's all really (as I imagine everyone said in the thread - there's been dozens about Grizedale on here all saying the same thing too). Oh well - your loss. 🙂

I also enjoyed it as a noob - it was one of the first trails I did in horrible bitterly cold pissing rain on New Year's Day years ago. Fell off several times on greasy boardwalk and hurt myself but I was hooked.

The last descent is fun at night/with lights btw - bit dull in the daytime but there's many better options.

Not my favourite but I wouldn't class it as 5hite. First time I did the trail it was a dark November evening after riding across from Windermere. I hit the woodwork in the dark and whoosh..... Brings an whole new meaning to word slippy. Also the little horse at the end gave me a bit of a scare in the dark. Just wasn't expecting the little chap to be there munching away

I prefer Whinlatter when I'm up in the Lakes but will always ride Grizedale. Its good for a 60min blast on an XC bike.

A red in scotland seems to be a bit different from a red in the lakes

**** yeah - the blummin red at FB scares me more than the WC course 😯

The guy I met walking down there in cleats, pushing a carbon hardtail 29 wasn't having the best day. Poor bugger was trying his best to ride it, but was bouncing like a pinball off the rocks.

He should have his bike taken away from him!

Also, if you decide to visit a trail centre in Scotland, you might want to drop down a grade just till you get a feel for it. A red in scotland seems to be a bit different from a red in the lakes.

Yeah don't try Spooky Woods at Glentress - scary levels of gnar unless you're a riding god.

Also the little horse at the end gave me a bit of a scare in the dark. Just wasn't expecting the little chap to be there munching away

The little horse on the last section is definitely a unique feature, paid for by parking charges to improve the trail 😆

Yeah don't try Spooky Woods at Glentress - scary levels of gnar unless you're a riding god.

lol

I must admit I was intimidated by the sheer levels of rad on display at the top of Spooky Woods last time I was there 😉

The little horse on the last section is definitely a unique feature, paid for by parking charges to improve the trail

He had turned into a herd of cows a couple of weeks ago, who were standing on the trail providing a whole new obstacle to overcome!

North Farce Trail. Went during a rainy period (insert joke here) and after riding natural trails for several days we did a mix of grizedale bridleways and NFT, the only puddles I came across all day were on the NFT and they were *everywhere*, the only good bit of NFT was some climb we did, the rest was a waste of time.

Sorry to give it a bashing, its just difficult not to with the surrounding forest, lacklustre trail centre and high parking fees.

Rode the black once and that was jolly good fun - good stuff.

I went there a few months ago and did a mix and match route of the trail plus a load of natural bridleways. All together that was a fun ride. I'll sort the gpx and write up for the msbwindon website sometime.

Is there a map showing where the black section is?

Ride up the first singletrack climb onto the fireroad, then continue straight past the second singletrack section on the left and the black is a little further on the right.

It is actually signposted now though.

Must have another crack at it soon, I got the fear last time (though it was under 2 foot of snow!)

Yep it's certainly a crap trail!

Yeah don't try Spooky Woods at Glentress - scary levels of gnar unless you're a riding god.

Ha! Funnily enough grum, that was another trail which I thought was a wee bit disappointing! I've only been to GT a couple of times and both times I rode spooky woods I felt that it was a little bit contrived. It had been hyped up to me though, and i'm not a fan of bmx track style stuff (I'm generally utterly crap at jumping).

Is there a map showing where the black section is?

As above or, ride out the VC as though going to do the TNF at the start of that route continue straight on up the fireroad for a little way. You will come to the exit of The Black, there is ride/push up bridleway on the left (facing the black). You can finish off by doing the lower section of The Riverbed.

North Face Trail, Grizedale - most disappointing trail ever?

no, that would be the blue, at Mabie.

Yep it's certainly a crap trail!

This is kind of missing the point. I think it would be much fairer to say that it is quite badly out of shape, and out of date, and what it requires is a face lift to bring it back to what could be a fantastic man made trail, which can be linked up to the surrounding BW network.

We know it has faults, but merely using the internet as a sounding board to express your displeasure will not resolve the problems it is currently facing.

In order to remedy the problems we all know about and agree upon, we must start to use forums such as this, to form volunteer communities and action groups, to liase with the FC where possible, and take charge of the future, then go out and do something about it.

To make the NFT better, for you and everyone else, requires boots on ground to turn up and dig for victory.

Keyboards don't build trails, shovels do.

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They were starting to build this new bridge when I was last there at Easter. So a bridge thats not wide enough to get a bike across is being built on a bike trail? Which genius is responsible for that? I take it the current route around it into that little cutting will remain?

As for Dalby, I really like it there. Its a trail that rewards you giving it the beans all the way round - its not a plod up, rip down type trail centre such as Glentress etc because it just doesn't have the elevation but the more it beds down and wears in, the better it gets IMHO. And the £7 to park thing... as mentioned, its a toll road. You pay to drive your car in - the parking and riding is free. Theres always been a toll at Dalby going back way before armour clad weekend warriors descended en mass every weekend to ride.

Which genius is responsible for that?

Yes, I would like a word with them as well. Guess it was the FC, as it looks like it was done much more with H&S in mind, rather than MTB'ers keeping the trail flowing. 😡

Not the best thing that has happened, but this is exactly why I'm trying to get people together, to start raising these concerns, and forming a community that can have a dialogue with the people who make these decisions.

This is the very thing that has been absent in the past, and the thing that needs to change to stop stuff like this happening again in the future.

If you look at what has happened at Gisburn and Whinlatter, it has had a very dramatic effect on the trails there in a short space of time, with very positive outcomes. This is what now what needs to happen in Grizedale, for the NFT to stop getting such a bad reputation.

If I was local I'd be well up for helping ToD - you just need to look at the natural stuff to see how good man-made stuff with some bike specific features etc could be in the area. Keep up the good work 😉

If i was local I'd go and take the top 2 foot off the bridge and nail a 8x6 sheet on the right hand side of it and turn it to a nice berm 😀

Forgot about that bridge in my original post bloody crazy!