[Closed] New shifters - how much to fit?

I don't really want to start fiddling with my gears if I can possibly help it. Partly laziness, partly fear of messing everything up

I would recommend having a crack at doing it yourself mate. I installed new inners/shifters etc last week for the first time. Had a few hiccups, but any probs got sorted either through asking questions on here or other web sources like[url= http://parktool.com/repair/byregion.asp ] Park Tool[/url]s website.

....once you have done it you will wonder why you didn't have a go sooner. Plus you will have a better idea of how it all works if you need to make adjustments down the line.

Plus, all you need is a allen key and a small philips screwdriver.

Edit....and some cable cutters.

Practice on your old set first, it's not a black art at all. Go on give it a try!

If fear of messing up is the main issue, why not just try it first (use the parktool.com guides to help) and if you're really stuck then go to a shop - at least that way you'll probably learn how to tune gears which is often useful out on the trail...

Sounds like useful advice ... have the tools, just need to make sure there is an LBS on stand-by.

I've never been very good at tuning gears, and they are running well at the moment on my bike, hence the caution.

Yeah def have a go yourself. Worst case is they're all jumpy & you lose a week's riding while you get the bike shop to fix it. Best case is they work a treat & you'll have the confidence to tweak them when you get cable stretch or upgrade again.

For the record, if someone came to me with online shifters, presumably including inners, I'd fit them for £10 or £15, plus the cost of outer. Depends on how nicely you asked.

BTW, we (Brooks Cycles) have a shop in Welshpool, that's not too far from you...

Have a read through of this:

http://www.bikemagic.com/maintenance/shiny-new-shifters/2984.html

....then decide whether you want to have an attempt or not. It simplifies things quite nicely....unlike Shimano documentation which i found a bit obtuse.

I've just bookmarked the Park Tools site and will check out the Bike Magic one too ... shifters should arrive in the next couple of days.

Thanks joe@brookscycles! You may get a call from me ... I'm VERY polite 😆

I'll probably stick with the existing cables, as the bike is fairly new - it's just the tensioning and the finer adjustments that bother me. Bit I will have a go! Expect more posts later in the week 😳

Nice one - I'll be suprised if you can't do it yourself (as is the case for the majority of bike related jobs which are really very simple even if they may seem daunting to the inexperienced at first).

think merlin charge £30 ish for both so yes do it yourself

I always used to shudder at doing stuff like that, but a couple of years ago started playing around with setting up gears etc, using park tools site. Its a great site, not least because it explain what all the different adjusters are used for on gears, instead of just saying do this, do that.

now I do everything on my bikes, build my first one up from scratch a few weeks ago.

so get stuck in you'll be fine!

Yeah I'm cack-handed and can cope with shifters fine, if you really can't I'd suggest buying bits from an LBS in the first place and getting them to fit for a small fee, otherwise expect to end up paying more in total than you save getting them on the net.

When I've fitted new shifters in the past I've put a new cable in as well. Didn't think you could get the old cable back through the outers as its all splayed from where its been clamped. More expert fettlers may have a way of sorting this

You usually can get the cables back though the outer if it's been neatly clamped and endcapped 🙂

New shifters usually come with new inners though IIRC.

99% of the time shifters come complete with inners. Seems a shame to compromise their performance with old outers though, doesn't it? For the sake of a couple of quid, i'd chuck new outers on to. Start with a nice, new, crisp, clean sheet 🙂

I think you're right about the cables and outers - new cables come with the shifters.

Spoken like a true salesman 😉 (I'd have probably suggested the same when I was working at a bike shop...)

If the outers are fine then there's no need/point in changing them.

Should have gone for the XT shifters, there is something reasuringly nice about them, and probably the only bit of the drive chain that is definatly worth having over slx.

I thought about it, but will try SLX for now, especially as the price is pretty good - most reviews seem to say there is little in it for the shifters, although I expect the XT will be super-nice! If I get on well with them, maybe I'll look at upgrading them to XT or XTR in a year or so and put the SLX on my old bike.

I'd suggest that the shifters are one of the items that has very little benefit as you go up the hierarchy - well, they may feel/look a bit nicer but they all seem to actually shift just as well IME. Particularly once the cables have any crap in them.

Particularly once the cables have any crap in them.

On a related note, one of the best things I have found to improve shifting is full length outers.

Me too 🙂

Slx and xt shifters use the same innards, its just the housing that's different IIrc

full length outers with a couple of drops of rock n roll cable magic (which will last a few lifetimes).

OK - I have the shifters and planning to have a go tomorrow!

Just one further question ... I don't have a workstand (I know I really need to get one), so was wondering if there are any cheats when setting up the gears / spinning the pedals when adjusting the gears? I seem to remember from the dim and distant past that upending the bike to do this isn't such a good idea.

Cheers 8)

TBH I Don't use full outers necc. The XTR cable sets with the special ferrules and rubber gromits have been great and lasted ages.

You can upend the bike but doesn't always index properly - why not balance or tape the tip of the saddle on an object that juts out the wall?

Or if you have a hollowtech type system bend a bit of piping and poke it thought the drive side axle hole?

hmm, first thing I got when I started fiddling was a workstand, but if you can find something to balance / hang your saddle off you should be fine. A mate of mine uses a loop of rope from a rafter in his shed, not ideal, but will do for now

My other sport is rock-climbing, so there is a lot of rope in the house and stuff to hang the bike off in the garage ... sorted, thanks! (Until everything goes horribly wrong tomorrow - watch this space 😆 )

It is easy really
DO NOT touch any adjustments on the F/ R mechs if they are changing fine still. Thread rear cable / inner thro frame stops. By hand move mech and chain to mid poiint cassette and thread inner thro mech cable clamp. Gently tighten clamp and then whislt turning pedals loosen slowly teh clamp bolt; this will enable mech to return to small cog and pull thro on cable to correct tension. Do up clamp again and should be all properly indexed and shifting. any small adjustmenst can be done on mech adjuster or lever adjuster.
Front mech such same but set chain and mech by hand onto big ring and tehn loosen off cable clamp as mech returns to samll ring. 1 hr maxm should do it

Thanks, jamesb, these sound like the sort of instructions even I can follow and they make absolute sense! I've messed up gears in the past, which is why I think twice about tinkering with them these days, but, as many have said, it really shouldn't be that difficult.

I'm almost looking forward to trying to do this tomorrow ... tempting fate 😉

forgot to add check that barrel adjuster on shifter is at mid point so that you can make adjustments if needed either slacker or tighter, I think shifters should be supplied with adjusters at mid point but worth checking; enjoy

khani - Member

Slx and xt shifters use the same innards, its just the housing that's different IIrc

Nope different internals, 2part shift on slx compared to immediate shifting on xt, xt have bearings slx don't.

Whats a 2 part shift when its at home?

OK - shifters fitted and handlebars now reassembled. Very straight-forward using bikemagic.

Working from home today, but no one needs my help! So there's nothing for it ... setting up the gears again.

Lunch first, I think.

Cheers! See below - I messed up the pictures, but Jamie has sorted them out for me 😳 No comments on the messy garage, please!

No more spending for now. I got a very good price on the X4, and so even with the upgrades, I've spent less than I would have on an X3 and have the components I wanted (for now) 😆

secret squirrel - Member
It's done and everything works! Thanks to all for the great advice, and in particular to jamesb - for the cable adjustment, I needed go no further than your advice. The gears worked fine before, so there was - fortunately - no need to start fiddling with the H/L screws.

[img] [/img]

Thanks also to MSP - I had ordered the SLX, but dithered over the XT too. Only another £13 at Ribble, so bit the bullet and went for them. I must admit that I've only been up and down the road a few times to test everything, but the shifting felt amazingly crisp and fast compared to the standard Deore I took off. They were fine, but I can appreciate the difference already. I also didn't realise you could shift more than one gear at once on the XT!

Finally, the makeshift workstand was fit for purpose:

[img] [/img]

My slightly upgraded bike:

[img] [/img]

Worth trying to sell the old shifters? They are as new.

Thanks again guys

There you go 😉

Now you just need to take the indicators off, you should know what gear your in 😉

But they look nice!

oh and move your brake levers inboard so you only use 1 finger for braking, its still in shop display mode 😉

What do you mean by inboard? I've fiddled around with them a bit and they feel quite comfortable as they are, but I'm still up for advice 😉

What do you mean by inboard?

nearer the stem [s]than the brake lever clamp[/s]

The brake lever is a [b]lever[/b] que suprise

The most effective place to apply presure is at the end of the lever, so with your hand in the normal position on the grips you should be able to comfortably just pull the end of the lever with one finger.

edit: the finger to use is the index finger, not your pinky 😉

Merci! It's "quelle surprise" BTW 😉

I'll give it a try.

After reading this thread earlier, I went to the LBS, bought some XT shifters (that I've had my eye on for a while...) and fitted them myself! Struggled a tad with the front cable cus I couldn't work out where to put it (dual pull mech I believe?), but I did it in the end 😀

hmmm...need a new project now 😛

Yes, it was much easier than I expected, but I wouldn't have tried doing it without the advice on this thread.

The XTs are rather nice, aren't they? 8)

You should look at the XTRs!!! expensive but fabulous shifting, only have to flick teh lever and it`s changed ; plus dual action on F&R downshift, and no nasty cluttering of gear indicators. Unlike most XTR stuff they do seem genuinely a step +++ above XT and not just a matter of being blingy / lighter

jamesb - Member

You should look at the XTRs!!!

Stop tempting me! But seriously ... I realise XTR is superb. One day, maybe, on a custom-built bike, when I have a bit more spare cash. The XTs are such a step-up from the Deore that I'm chuffed to bits 8)

BTW, you are something of a saint - as I mentioned earlier, I didn't need bikemagic or Park to do this job - your instructions were clear and worked first time. I couldn't quite believe it, but it really was THAT easy! Maybe because everything worked fine before, but everything's A OK.

Thanks again!

[i] its still in shop display mode [/i]

And looks that clean are you sure its actually left the shop?

I washed it before, 'cos bikemagic said I should!

It has been dirty, quite a few times, honest 😆

I have Deore shifters at the minute. Are the blingier XTs worth the money then - is there a performance increase or just a nicer trigger feel and better looks? I don't like the plasticcy feel of the deore.

It's really early for me to say, as I've only tried them literally up and down the road to test the shifting. That said, it seems (to me at least) much, much snappier/quicker, with less travel on the levers, making for more comfortable shifting - IMO Deore feels a bit lazy in comparison, although it still does the job.

I'm sure there will be lots of people on STW who can give long-term advice on this. I know that one key difference surrounds the use of bearings in the XT version.

I'm going to try and get out tomorrow evening to try them out properly, but initial impressions are very favourable (- I've only used standard Deore before). Got them for £48 from Ribble (with an additional discount code) ... seems a pretty good price.

I accept the fact that I'll sound like a bit of an arse here - however, it astounds me how people ride their bikes into the middle of nowhere with absolutely zero mechanical skills.

This includes a few of my mates to be honest. There's nothing complicated on a bike that a bit of common sense/lack of laziness/willingness to learn can't sort in a few minutes.

Surprised nobody on here's told you to 'just get a singlespeed'

🙂

Hmm, a bit out of context here. I was talking about complete replacement of components, not repairs on a trail. I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I've messed things up in the past and need to improve, but I am able to do the basics on a ride. I've spent many years fiddling with bikes, but things change and asking for a bit of guidance shouldn't be such a bad thing. There is a difference ...

Setting up gears is a trail maintenance issue that is often needed imo, unless you're struggling with the concept of taking your grips off and tightening a couple of allen bolts for actually fitting the shifters?

The comment was a generalisation and not specifically aimed at you in any case, however it seems you've succeeded anyway and as per one of my comments - it wasn't that hard, was it?

I have almost zero mechanical skills...so I don't ride into places where I'd be in trouble if something breaks! I'm either with someone who is mechanically competent or I'm in my local woods which aren't big enough to make it difficult to walk back to the car!

And, tom, I first impressions suggest there is an improvement over the deore shifters. And they have the 2 way release thing so you can use your thumb for both shifters. Other than that it just seems like it shifts faster.

I sort of agree with TAFKASTR. Being able to trim gears on the trail when they get misaligned is a useful skill, but 5 mins with a helpful friend looking at how barrel adjustment relates to mech trimming should give the skill level needed to sort most trail issues. And it's relatively intuitive unless you're a mechanical halfwit.

Fitting a new drivetrain from scratch takes way more finesse imho. Bolting the parts on is a fraction of it (although front mechs are a bit of a black art to me) it's then setting end stops and b-limit screws and getting cables just so and then finally if you've got the above right trimming F&R is the easy bit. Of course if you're fitting new shifters to an existing drivetrain that avoids a lot of the faff, but I'll bet at some point a new mech will be wanted / needed and fitting one of those is worth knowing too.

Agreed - all fair points. I used to be really good on maintenance stuff years ago, and even built my own road bike in my late teens, but then didn't bike for a few years and things had changed. Having totally mucked up gears a few years ago, I've left them to the LBS in recent years. This wasn't helped by a local bike shop that would only fit the shifters provided I didn't have a go first (- their advice was not to bother trying, just bring them it!).

I think this has been a cathartic experience and I will be more than happy to at least have a go at more things in the future.

I now have a definite resolve to become a bit more independent in terms of repairs and maintenance, so TAFKASTR, I do agree with you, especially in terms of not venturing out into the wilds without the necessary repair skills to get you back.