[Closed] New Glentress Visitor Centre

it was to be expected as a public body they have to be seen to offer the leases to open market but if the guys and gals at the hub dont get it, it will be very unfair.

either way I will still by my cake and coffee from the hub, regardless of which building they are in

Yeah, the tendering thing goes without saying - they have to do that - I was just assuming that Emma and Tracey will go for it given it was them that actually built up the business in the first place, and have the track record of running the place. Or are there others in the running?

Purple Mountain will probably get it, like they did at Kielder. Let some other party do all of the hard work building a customer base, then move in and clean up.

I've actually just had a thought, I / We are assuming that the hub want to move...

we dont know the conditions on which they are currently there, who owns the land, how much the lease is etc etc they may have decided that they dont want to pay the new "lets be real here" increased lease cost amd will say where they are

any other business should consider that bikers are a pretty loyal bunch for the most part and most will stick with the hub

>amd will say where they are<

Yeah, thats why FCS spent a fortune buying up all the land / houses thus removing any chance of competition! 😉

Purple Mountai - never heard of them. Strangely, we do actually have indigenous businesses in Scotland who will be biting FCS hand off for this.

I'd be beyond astonished if the FC started on the Glentress Peel plan if there was any opportunity for the Hub to stay put where it is now. Given the PR disasters regarding the cafés at Coed y Brenin and Glyncorrwg at the very least the FC wouldn't have the situation where the (shamefully, evilly treated by the mean FC) original cafe owners were still in place just across the road from the (evil, cynically capitalist FC shill) cafe in the new visitors' centre.

If Emma and Tracey will be able to bid for the cafe and the bike shop in the new centre then hopefully the positive/negative effects on business on them not getting the contracts will be considered as part of the bidding process.

[i]Given the PR disasters regarding the cafés at Coed y Brenin and Glyncorrwg at the very least the FC wouldn't have the situation where the (shamefully, evilly treated by the mean FC) original cafe owners were still in place just across the road from the (evil, cynically capitalist FC shill) cafe in the new visitors' centre.[/i]

FC is a business and history has shown they don't give a flying F about present tenants when there is money to be made

My understanding ( based on hearsay) is that Tracy and Emma are not bidding. they have other plans.

Ah - that was kind of what I was wondering... either way, I wish them well. Have nice memories of rocking up there for the first time in 2002 and Emma coming out for ride with us, just cause she could. Nice people, had an idea and made it work.

be prepared for some sodehxo restaurant chain-dullness with stodgy macaroni and sachets of brown sauce.

Still, it will be nice to sit in a 10-million pound building eating your stodge,

heres one who wont be going to the new cafe if the Hub dont get it and some cheapy crap food folk do...
the girls made GT for the FC,look at what they have done for getting youngsters into mtb, a DH world juinior champion came out of the Hub,
and Teenys grub is ace,
also heard the top level of the new centre was originaly going to be the cafe and now its going to be the FC offices,typical!,

My understanding is the same as TJs - ie the Hub girls have no intention of bidding as they have other plans.

However I am surprised that none of the bright sparks on here are bidding since it would appear that all STW posters have massive experience in running successful businesses.

Which every interested party states in their tender submission that they we will abolish the 'No we only do 2 fillings, and no you can't pay extra to get a third filling' policy, and open negotiations to entering into a '3 filling in yer bap' contract will get my vote 😉

'No we only do 2 fillings, and no you can't pay extra to get a third filling' policy, and open negotiations to entering into a '3 filling in yer bap' contract will get my vote

And your coffee cup will never be empty.
Overdosed on coffee/caffiene whilst on holiday in Canada recently. A waitress/server wanders around filling up your coffee cup as soon it is empty. At no extra cost ❗ 😆

Hahahaha @ druihd

There are a few of us around who remember the days when there was no Hub or car park.
There are good cafes in Peebles town for those not wishing to support a new venture. Lots of "new" riders will not know or understand the history/romantic part of the story re the Hub never mind who Emma Tracey are or their acheivments.

We must also remember that the new centre is not just for "us bikers"

coastkid - Member

and Teenys grub is ace

Is that the wee lassie that always looks miserable? Always says hallo and has a chat but deary me, she is a bonny lass but needs to smile more ❗

no one ever sees Teeny!, shes always busy behind her flaps...i mean hinged doors cooking!, a braw wee lass she is 😮

[i]The rainwater harvesting system is being installed to allow rainwater to be collected and re-used in the bike wash.[/i]

Very PC, have you seen how much earth they've moved for this lot!

We've been up for the last few weeks, the cafes' been fine.

And the building are scattered across (and up) the hillside - bloody architects/planners - lets just have one building, with showers/cafe/bikeshop/bikewash all rolled into one.

And it looks like they are keeping the current car parks - which are miles away, and will make it a thieves paradise!

[i]Which every interested party states in their tender submission that they we will abolish the 'No we only do 2 fillings, and no you can't pay extra to get a third filling' policy, and open negotiations to entering into a '3 filling in yer bap' contract will get my vote [/i]

Since when, I just order the fillings what I want, irrelevent of what any menu says - never, never had a problem.

The whole thing is a waste of money. The Hub cafe is probably the best cafe in the world, because of the atmosphere (and carrot cake I would kill to get my hands on). My fear is that the new place will be some sterile, corporate monstrosity.

Whatever Emma and Tracey do next I hope it works out for them. They've arguably done more to make mountain biking in Scotland such a success than anyone I can think of.

I second that!
Emma+Tracy for a peerage(maybe the House of Lords is the mystery next vocation mentioned above?)
The homemade soups and the fruit flapjacks are my personal faves..and the freckley lass who's always falling out of her top never fails to brighten my day

The Hub cafe is probably the best cafe in the world

Some folks on here really need a reality check.

The Hub does make some lovely grub and it does have a good atmosphere for biking. Thing I like is that I always see Tracy or Emma out and about on the trails taking groups of young riders for lessons, they seem to be bikers first business women second. Wish them success in whatever they do next.

What I really hope is that the current bike shop don't get the tender for the new site. Because:

1. They are miserable when asking a question and don't seem to be bothered unless its fleecing n00bs for overinflated service charges.

2. The jet wash - always being used by the shop (GET OUT THERE AND CLEAN 6 BIKES BOY! OR NO £2.15 AN HOUR FOR YOU) so you can't get on, then on the rare occasion you do get a space its overheated with an out of order sign on it. Go get changed and then look over and surprise surprise, washer monkey is washing the fleet of Kona HTs.

3. Heard a guy had forgotten his helmet and they wouldn't hire him one - not sure of the excuse but they have a massive load of them for their hire bikes. That’s just bad form, any lbs I know would have helped him out.

I'm not daft, I understand that they are a business but most bike shops I go into are very friendly and accommodating - I get the feeling that the GT bike shop make plenty fleecing visitors and feel they don't need to bother with pleasantries or manners.

Ahem, Don't forget the part that Innerleithen and Red Bull project DH played in shaping/honing the noted Jnr World Cup winners skills !!

Rant over......best of luck to Tracy and Emma, they'll need it to take on the FC.

heres one who wont be going to the new cafe if the Hub dont get it and some cheapy crap food folk do...

Don't talk mince...you will use it...you use the current service that is supplied so you will use the next one that is supplied...

Talk sense man, of course you will unless just now you don't sample the wares and bring your own - but I don't think that is the case...it's evolution...things progress...Emma and Tracey have done an amazing service for GT and they have made plenty money out of it, if they have decided to move on then fair enough, I'm certain whatever they do next will also be a huge success...just like the Peel will be as everyone who goes to GT will use it...

the girls made GT for the FC

Emma and Tracey obviously played a huge part in GT's success, but I think that Pete Laing and the other trailbuilders helped make it a success too!

I thought the bike shop at GT was partly run/owned by emma?
Was down there doing TCL stuff with a group.
Emma really gave it all ranting/spouting pish I was stealing her business.

No sympathy from me if her business goes tits up, she's made a bloody fortune out of that place.

Munzy - The shop is owned by Emma and Tracey too. They also own the jet wash and have it there primarily for cleaning the hire bikes. The fact that the rest of us can pay 50p so we don't have to carry dirty bikes home is a side effect.

I don't necessarily agree with the girls attitude to other companies doing TCL etc at GT, but I can see where they are coming from and I really don't think they've made "a bloody fortune".

They have certainly put a hell of a lot of blood sweat and tears into that place and I genuinely don't think Glentress would be quite what it is today without them.

i wil be a pity if the cafe does turn out a bit crap but i won`t stop me going. I will just have to bring along my own stuff like i normally do on most days out.It is the trails i go for not the cafe

First of all- thanks to all the post of support. We have every intention of going for the tenders for the new building-yes apparently it is the rules that they have to be put out to tender-so we are told-we have asked to see a copy of the rules but nothing has been forthcoming but we would like to understand why we have to tender for services we already provide at the venue. We were notified by e-mail a couple of days before it went public and think we deserved a bit more than that after nearly 10years at the venue.
Our concern is that they are looking for '5 star' services at the venue-silver service/no muddy mountain bikers???
The situation is that we do have an existing lease until 2012 there so if we don't get the tenders for the new buildings then we will still be there until that lease expires-they can't boot us out. Our other concern with the new centre is how much the rent is going to be-they have spent £9M on the new centre-we are more than happy to pay a fair rent but if they are looking for some immediate return on that investment then its going to be difficult for any business. At present there are no plans to expand or improve the current trail network and any business at the bottom of the hill is utterly dependent on the trails-they are the backbone of the venue (thanks to Pete and Richard) and I know FC have plans to increase the numbers by promoting the place to wildlife viewers and walkers but realistically how many more folk will this attract-the strength of GT is the mountain bikers-that is why there is an opportunity on offer because over nearly 10yrs the numbers have risen from 70,000 when we first opened to 300,000.
We have invested 10 years of our lives into Glentress and not about to walk away from it now-and yes we've invested a significant amount of cash into the venue as well as blood sweat and tears. Tracy and I run 3 businesses from there-the cafe, the bike shop, and tuition. There are 2 of us that take a wage from the place but we aint about to float on the stock market-we make a good living (and work bloody hard as do all of our staff) but I don't drive a sportscar and take foreign holidays in the Bahama's-oh and we live in the same house and don't have kids-perception is a funny thing so is green cheese...
And as for chasing folk away that do TCL at the venue-rubbish-unless you were the guy that set up in my cafe with your flipchart and marker pens or the guy that started running a how to fix your bike on the decking and put your oily muddy wheels on my tables that folk have to eat off-yes then I probably did chase you away cos you never had the manners to even ask if you could use my cafe as your TCL venue-thats the cafe that I have to pay a rent for-and if you come into the venue and earn a pot of cash out of it and wear out the trails at the same time it would be nice if you put something back because it costs money to maintain those trails that sustain both our businesses. And if anyone is looking for a TCL provider try Brian Salvona-he's a really nice guy that runs courses at Glentress.
Emma.

Yeah, I was wondering how welcome filthy bikers will be in a brand new centre.

I'm also under the impression that internal FC tender submissions benefit from reduced rent? Is this true, or am I misinformed?

I am hoping that we don't see a repeat of the shameful Welsh debacles.

emmag - Member

First of all- thanks to all the post of support. We have every intention of going for the tenders for the new building-

Good luck - I hope you get it then. There will be a lot of very annoyed folk if you don't.

I echo my esteemed pal tj on this one. Emma and gang all do fantastic work there. They deserve to benefit from the investment in gt more than anyone. It wouldn't be getting built had it not been for the solid businesses they have established there.

Good luck Emma and Tracy.

Mark.

Cheesy nachos at the hub today were A+ 🙂

Bananna Smoothie and panini at the Hub today, top class.

The Hub represents all that is good about Glentress, people of all skill levels go there after biking around GT. No matter what your bike you ride, no matter how far you can ride, no matter how good you are, the Hub Cafe brings us all together for good food, to chat about our exploits up in the trails, and generally chill out with excellent food. And allow us to ogle some of the bikes up than are leant up against the fence.

Good luck Emma & Tracy, hope it all works out for you.

It's worth saying that a number of folk (especially non-bikers) won't consider going into the Hub because it's always rammed, busy and the seats are often covered in mud. I guess the question is; is that a significant enough number to be chasing after at the expense of alienating the existing clientelle?

Perhaps the new cafe needs to take this into account and have both a clean and a dirty section?

i 'kin love the hub it is awesome and i shall sulk a bit if it goes but the fc really will be looking hopefully long term at this so good luck girls oh and dru there is a dirty section at the hub , we call it outside hth

Aye Al, except that often it's hard to tell the difference 😉

bet those houses round the general area must be worth a bob or two. wonder who owns them and how much they paid for them?

I love the way that there never seems to be a 69 on the order pad. You can see the waiting crowd as it gets to the 60's. Then disappointment at the jump to 70.

Emma & Tracy. You seem to be experiencing the same kind of crap that Ian @ The Drop Off is getting at GC, but for different reasons.
I don't know if you've spoken to him lately, but he's pretty clued up on this process and how to deal with it.
I work in the GC centre, but not for long.
I'll be up with you guys in a few weeks, 4th &5th Sept. I'll call in and say "hi" and give you as much info as I can.
Wish you all the best with the tender, you shoul be the No.1 choice for the centre, because you already are with all of it's customers.
See you soon,
Kev.

Emmags post proves one thing - the 'reliably informed' on here don't half get it wrong at times 😉

>I'm also under the impression that internal FC tender submissions benefit from reduced rent? Is this true, or am I misinformed?<

No such thing as an 'internal tender' in this scenario - that would be anti competitive. FCS are a public body governed by very strict rules - they are legally obliged to go through a bona fide tender process. Looks like this will be in three stages:

1. Expressions of interest doc - open to every man and his dog.
2. Prequal doc - those applying to obtain tender doc will then need to conform to a string of key criteria: catering licence, 3 years accounts, bank references, previous /similar business experience yada yada...
3. Tender

2 will weed out the dreamers and may possibly 'get around' having to publish 3 on the FCS website (tho you could obviously obtain this under FOI) FCS tender process will have, or at least should have, a scoring matrix to guide them towards a decision. I wouldn't expect the % 'weighting' given to business continuity with the current incumbents i.e the Hub, to be a very high % of the overall score.

As others have said, business is business and the HUB's current lease with FCS is finite. That's not to say that FCS wont try to steer this towards their favoured party or partys 'cos we all know that business is also about relationships. It may boil down to how good E&T's relationship is with good ol' FCS...

IME most Councils, for example, are now completely transparent: publish tender doc, when the succesful tenderer is appointed publish the bidders names and the bids (these wont be atributed to specific bidders) IME of FCS they publish the minimum necessary.

No doubt this story will have a few twists before the fat one sings...

Apologies TroutWrestler, may have misinterprated the internal tender comment. Are you suggesting FCS has an in-house team capable of bidding for this opportunity? Would have thought that a.) highly unlikely b.) would need to be stand alone op or this would be anti competitive c.) not within FCS strategy

I predict a Coed y Brenin cafe stlye FC approach

Treat the existing cafe owers who were largely responsible for the success of the whole place like crap, while on the other hand trying to appear super ethical by installing non flush urinals etc in the new atmosphere vacuum service station style cafe.

That said, maybe the new place won't have one gruby bog for the +80% of male customers and several gleaming traps for the relatively much lower number of female visitors.

Perhaps there's a wider issue here in terms of why a mtb 'centre of excellence' has to manifest itself in the form of £expensive architecture which requires us to sell the family silver and purchase private real estate to fund and which will not wash its face anyway.

Of course this isn't all about mtb and I see the business / supposed net economic impact arguments for doing this but I think we have moved too far in the wrong direction. Similar scenario near where I live: The cooncil, this time, are going to erect a very expensive visitor centre in a Country Park and there will be a bike hire facility. Their first priority should be to maintain and protect the formal and informal network of paths which already exists - and to make it far easier for folk to arrive by foot / on bike / by public transport. Instead I fear we are going to get a shrine to cake hunters - all of whom will arrive by car. The trails will get destroyed or worse still sanitised to cope with the increasesd numbers to mitigate the on cost of maintaining them and a great mtb venue will vanish down the plughole.

It may boil down to how good E&T's relationship is with good ol' FCS...

E&T should be carefull what they say on here, big brother will be looking over their shoulders 😯

Good Luck. From someone who has been riding GT since before the Hub doors openedd 🙄

[i]big brother will be looking over their shoulders [/i]
[url= http://hell-on-wheels.blogspot.com/2009/05/poor-dears.html ]ain't that the truth...[/url]

[i]From someone who has been riding GT since before the Hub doors opened[/i]
me too. better now though innit?

much
but have not been over for ????? months 😳
have been exploring/re-discovering local hills again and doing all the old stuff pre trail centres

vaguely remember you (if same marty)dropping your punto(blue fiat anyway)wheeels into a ditch at dalbeattie 😆

no, no. that wasn't me. i had a silver punto.

[shuffles away whistling]

🙂

😆

Lets hope the people who run/work in the cafe at Coed-Y-Brenin don't export their special brand of 'swift'-service or tender for the business.

[i]the 'reliably informed' on here don't half get it wrong at times[/i]

Maybe there should be a "Reveal Source" button on STW for people posting "facts". No response in 30 minutes results in "fact" being deleted?

Both Druidh and I had heard the same - me from two different sources. Clearly incorrect and I am embarrassed - my two sources where people I thought would know.

I didn't say it was a "fact" tho - I said "my understanding is"

The HUB definitely has atmosphere, like Laggan Cafe. Yes there can be a bit of mud and dust but that's expected. If you go to a ski resort in the alps in the summer it's the same.

I hope the 9mill is well spent coz that translates to miles and miles and miles of trails that could have been built, which is the sustainability of the place.

Nick

And I was hoping the new Cafe will be a Hooters bar ! 😀

I wish the girls good luck and although I haven't been up there for some time, the cafe was exactly what I thought it should be.

I just hope that they don't instal one of these souless, generic, shortbread tin, hoots mon och aye the noo, pensioner/tourist ghettos selling overpriced 'local' crap, where you expect Andy Stewart to burst in singing "Donald where's yer troosers" at any moment, that seem to be proliferating everywhere, especially around Aberdeen.